All About Birth Control

[healthybratt]

I don't have to worry about this any more personally but I've been following this thread and I thought I would mention, I have a Catholic (semi-practicing) friend who uses the ovulation method which checks the condition of the cervix daily.  She was able to pin-point to the day and conceive both of her children with this method.  She said it worked for birth control as well, she just got tired of checking every day so she reverted to oral contraceptives (this is the "semi" part).  She also monintored her temp along with the cervix check and she said the temp was not even half as accurate.

[kjmsmum]

I just thought I'd  add my 2 cents worth ... I'm possibly pg  with my 4th baby - this will make 4 c-sections in just under 4 years.  I have really tried for the last 6 years to understand the "taking care of my body" vs "faith in God" issue.... and this is my personal take (I don't want to condemn anyone else for the way they do it, just wanted to share our thoughts)
My 2nd baby was born 53 weeks after the first - a surprise as I was exclusively breastfeeding. After no.2 we were concerned about my body healing (2 c-sections). We had found out that c-section scars typically heal 90% in the first 90 days so for the first 3 months we did use condoms but I have to say that in my heart I wondered about whether I was truly trusting God. Actually we quit using them before the 3 month mark as both my husband and I wanted to open ourselves up to trusting God. So no 3 came along (a 20 month gap this time)
and we decided not to use anything but leave it in God's hands. He's 7 months old now...
I do struggle with trusting God sometimes, but several things encourage me - The first is the thought that babies don't just suddenly drop into my life. God gives me time to adjust to the thought and to learn to organise my life sufficiently to where when the baby arrives I can cope (with plenty of His grace:) And know that I am teribly disorganised in general - getting better every baby:)  I am also blessed to find all these helpful resources, especially training and spirulina!!! And blessed by great pregnancies!!!!!
I try to keep in mind that I am dealing with the eternal - and God will be asking me about my children's hearts and attitudes, etc not how clean my house is or how fancy the meals are!  I am very selfish - and I would love to have more time for myself, more space, more money etc, even just take a walk by myself!! but I also truly desire to die to myself - and what better way than serving my husband and kids? God has a reason for blessing me with these children and I want to open myself to His will and trust to His grace to get me through.
I am thankful to be able to rest in my husband also as we share the desire to let God order our family, and to provide for us. My testimony is He has blessed us!!!! We're not rich but "Better a dinner of herbs where love is..."  I don't know what the future holds - but I want to learn to trust God more in every area of life.

[Tina]

I hope my story can help someone else. As a blood bought, spirit filled, believer in Jesus Christ I know that you have to walk in the Spirit and ask God to supply all your answers.
  I had 2 children and 3 miscarriages when I realized that I cannot control whether these babies are born or not, so why am trying to control if and when I get pg. I had 5 more children and no more miscarriages since. I read Pride's ( and others) ideas till there wasn't anything left to read. I was full quiver all the way. My hubby on the other hand wasn't and would use condoms, sometimes, and I thought he was disobedient. He was happy with the children we had and voiced that they were enough. But he never talked of being snipped. He just went with the flow.
 I was on bed rest for part of the last 4 pgrenacies. The last one i got carpel tunnel of pregnancy, yes it's real, and after her birth got bell's palsy.
I wanted to do what God wanted. I prayed alot about no more babies. I researched method's of bc and sterilization. I did come across a link with vasectomy and prostate. As for tubal's it said you could have heavier periods and I didn't think that could get worse.
 I was reading some books on marriage &child rearing and one thing jumped out. Many people have none or only 1 or 2 children because of their desire for more stuff, cars, big house, etc. We have sacrificed to have 7 children. We live in a 1000sq. ft. home on a small lot in a crime infested neighborhood and drive old cars. We chose to home educate and live on 1 income. My hubby owns his own painting company and works long days to provide for us. We have NOT been selfish. We have given up fancy things to have a large family and they need a Mama around to be able to nurture them. My guilt was gone when I realized this. Friends were very upset by our decision to have my tubes tied. Guilt trips were heaped on us by well meaning friends who could only have 3 children and others with 14. But God be thanked He did not accuse us. He gave me perfect peace! I still have that peace and no desire to reverse the decision. I'm waiting on grandchildren now. My 20 yo has no prospects yet though. My 4 yo is a joy to the entire family. She is the baby and is adored as such.
 My hubby is now pastoring and I can give him my full support. For the first time in 20 yrs we don't have a baby sharing our bed. We are entering a new season of life. He's 44 and I'm 38 and our whole life has and will always be devoted to the family.
 I'm not EVEN suggesting sterilization. But that you look to God, through Jesus, for your answers in this most delicate area. ~Tina

[proudmommaof3]

Hey, I just posted my story in the post "Birth Control Story".  But I will say some of it here (you may not go over there and read it )
I am very glad that this subject came up.  In January we had our thrid baby.  She is beautiful and a joy to us all.  Hence the name  Shyahna JOY!  (You can read the poam about her at www.homeschoolblogger.com/proudmommaof3/) 
For me when I am pregnant I am very, very sick.  With my first I had 5 IV's by six weeks.  I couldn't get any food or water down.  Again I was severly sick with the second.  This time we had a mid-wife so I was on my own trying to control this.  I did go to the ER and get 2 IV"S and we tried doing IV's with a drip enema.  At that time I started questioning this whole "leave it in God's Hands thing".  #3 was the same thing, only this time I had a 4 year old and a 2 year old.  We did drip enema's every night just so I could stay hydrated.  The whole family suffered.  There was nobody to take care of them.  The kids mudded the side of the house.  I looked out there one day to see my 4 year old getting ready to pummel my 1 year old with a base ball bat.   Thank God I caught him in time.  I spent four months laying on the couch, sick - 24,7-  I can't keep anything down.  We tried everything.  My husband had just started a new job where he was the main contractor building a house and he was stressed to the max.  Then he had to come home to a mess, cook, take care of me, and try to make some since out of the chaos. 
No place in my Bible does it say to leave having children in God's hands.  But it does say that Children are a blessing.  It does say Blessed is the man with a quiver full.  I know to many big familys whose children are completely unruly because Mom doesn't have time for them.  i don't want that for my children.  I want each one of my children to know that they are loved.  I would love to have 12 kids but we may only have three.  I agree with the selfiness thing too.  But a person can have 12 kids and be the most selfish human being in the world.  I know a man with 10 kids (#11 on the way) whose kids wear rags and he doesn't allow them to eat very much(he doesn't want them to be gluttens - he can afford to feed them properly) and he goes out and spends hundreds of $$ on new tools.  Selfiness is an issue of the heart and having kid after kid does not prove that your not selfish.
Taking anything isn't an option for me neither.  For one it makes me very sick and then there is the aborting factor.  I have read everything on NFP and we have spaced our children very well.  AND, yes, I do ask GOD to keep me from getting pregnant.  I tell Him that I do not want any more.  I do think God honors this.  (We still use protection during fertile times! )  My last two were conceived while using protection but I had also told God that if he wanted me to get pregnant that that would be okay.  We got pregnant both times. 
I fear getting pregnant again.  I haven't felt very good the last couple of days and not sure why!?!  My kids have to live with out a Mother for 4 months or more.  And I don't think I could do this with a new baby.  Baby's do have feelings too.  They are humans and I want to enjoy my new little girl (our first).  I want her to know that she is truely loved.  I want my kids to have a Mother!!  I am especially interested in this NEEM Oil.  How can I get some?
And if 3 to 4 years from now we decide that we want to have another one or end up having another one.  We will be totally happy and will welcome a new little one into our family.  But not right now!! 
And as far as not feeling well.  I got my Super Mom vitamens today and I took one of those along with the Yeast Assassin.  And something made me sick.  I started sweating and feeling really warm but I wasn't running a tempature.  Then I started feeling sick to my stomach.  I even burped some of it up (It tasted like the bottle smelled).  Now I have a headache.  Right between my eyes and down the back on my neck.  I had some dizziness too.
I took the SuperMom's with echinacea.  I have the kind without too.  I see those have Milk Thistle in them.  I hear that that is good for cleaning out the liver.  Is there enough in there to do that?  Because I may not want to take them to quick.  I am nurseing.  Another reason why i don't want to get pregnant because I want my children to be as healthy as possible.
Got to go be a MOM.  Thanks for "reading" about my two cents on the subject.  DeLyssa

[healthybratt]

Most of us trust God to provide food, but don't you still go to work to make money to buy it?  Just a thought.

[Maria/NHM]

Rebekah,

Do you happen to have any more information on NEEM OIL other than what you already posted? I've been trying to research it for my husband. His concern is that it might have long term effects in weakening the sperm. I haven't been able to find any info on this. Hubby just wants to be sure he isn't causing any long term damage before he takes it. My cycles always return eight weeks after giving birth but I can't seem to carry a baby to term if I get pregnant that soon. I've found it to be a little tricky to chart when your breast feeding

I did read that neem is good for your digestive track. Sounds like it has many potential uses.

[proudmommaof3]

Hey I just want you gals to know that I am completely computer illerate and I don't know how my story got on there twice!!
DeLyssa

[healthybratt]

Hey I just want you gals to know that I am completely computer illerate and I don't know how my story got on there twice!!
DeLyssa

I merged the two threads as they were related.

[ForeverGirl]

This company (link below) sells neem products and is familiar with using neem as a contraceptive. They have done extensive research and their products are great. In fact, Beeyoutiful will probably relabel and carry some of their skin products eventually. If you're really interested, call and ask about neem as a contraceptive - they will tell you all about it. They have a cream for women to use vaginally, and oil for men to take.

We had the same concern about disabled sperm, but have found no evidence to support that concern, nor any documentation on the subject. It really is a new idea in the USA, as far as I can tell - but very common in India.
We are using neem successfully, but do not personally know anyone else that does. Organix South says they have a lot of customers that use neem as a contraceptive - so I'd recommend talking to them about your concerns.

http://organixsouth.com/


Rebekah

[Helen]

which of the creams and oil should I get? and does the cream make you abort or miscarry if you use it at the time of .... well you know......     and does the neem oil leave a bad taste like oregano?

[Helen]

oh and one more thing................. would the neem leaf capsules work for my husband to take for birth control?

[Mama Sita]

Hello Ladies,
This information is all so refreshing to see. My only question is--where was this info 8 years ago when we had #4 in 4 years??
IMO, NFP works only when you have 2 willing partners (I'll give you one guess on who is usually willing...)
Yes, we went the vasectomy route. Finances were sooo tight and I was sooo whooped from having a 3yo, 2yo, 1yo and a newborn, so it seemed like a good idea at the time, plus we had no good source of info for any other possibilities of BC.
Guess what? God is changing our hearts. We are looking at a possible reversal and/or adoption. OUr great kids are now 11,10,9 and 8, and those days seem so far away.
My only advice is to pray, pray, pray about the decisions that you will make concerning BC. This is such a touchy subject, and I appreciate all you who have posted here!

God Bless,
Mama Sita

[ForeverGirl]

Posted by: Helen
which of the creams and oil should I get? and does the cream make you abort or miscarry if you use it at the time of .... well you know......     and does the neem oil leave a bad taste like oregano?

oh and one more thing................. would the neem leaf capsules work for my husband to take for birth control?

I'd recommend calling Organix South with these questions. We use the oil, dropped into a into a capsule with a dropper, taken by my husband every evening. It does have a strong smell, but it doesn't bother him taken in capsule form, and he always eats a banana right afterward.

The folks at Organix South know a lot more than I do, and could tell you about the cream and leaf, and what each one does. I personally don't know. It's not an extensively researched field, in the English language, anyway. 

Rebekah

[Helen]

thats what Ill do!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks

[petrimama]

I read the cream is risky for women...but that may depend on how it's used among other things.  I was born in the middle east and I know there was an herbal abortificient cream the women sometimes used (not necessarily neem, as I was very young and never thought to ask what it was) so I know that even topical herbal things can be dangerous if not properly researched.  I'm glad you'll be calling the company!  I hope you learn lots of good stuff so that you can post it all here.  I'm dying to try it after this baby is born, but I would want to know A LOT more before I do so.       ~L

[blessedwife]

wow... i thought that i had my mind made up about this subject, but now i am not so sure.  i have three children, ages 4, 3 and 1 and am currently pregnant (only a few months along) with #4. my husband and i decided that we were just going to trust the Lord and forego birth control.  my first child was a difficult labor and he ended up being sucked out with the vacuum thing (sounds funny as i write this, doesn't it).  anyway, he was/is perfectly fine and about as active a boy as you can imagine.  my second ended up a c-section because her arm was in the way and preventing her from getting out.  my third was a c-section as well.  this present pregnancy will be another c-section as advised by my OB whose opinion i respect. 
my question is (and my husband actually wants this to be my decision as he feels that i am the one who is carrying and birthing the babies) are we being irresponsible by deciding to "keep going?"  (he is already planning baby #5-- ha ha) i am not aware of any place in the Bible where the conceiving of a child is considered a curse.  He is the Giver of life and decides when and if a child is conceived.  so why not trust Him?  why would he bless anyone with a child if she were not "ready?"  then again, none of our friends (all Christians) are "quiver-full minded",and this causes me to doubt our decision.  i have gone to the Lord with this and i believe that He is "right on" with our decision, but then again, it could just be me talking to me, do you know what i mean?  (ha ha) i guess what i am trying to say is that i'm confused. 
any thoughts on this? 
-- blessedwife

p.s. you are an AWESOME group of women (and men).  so glad i found you!

[mishy]

If you and your hubby are in agreement and your hubby is planning number 5, go for it!!!  We quit because my hubby said he was done.  The Bible doesn't say how many to have and as long as hubby says OK, and you aren't in medical jeopardy, I don't see why not to have more. 

What's "quiver-full minded"?   I have heard a quiver full being as many as you can have.  And I have heard a quiver full is "My quiver has three arrows and it is full!!" 

[jeniwren]

What's "quiver-full minded"?   I have heard a quiver full being as many as you can have.  And I have heard a quiver full is "My quiver has three arrows and it is full!!" 


           I believe that it must be a mutual decision between husband and wife. It is not doctrinal, as far as the Bible goes, and if hubby wants another one, and you don't mind having c-sections (since he left it to you to decide)...then go for it. I have a friend whose pelvic area is too small for her and she had to undergo 2 c-sections (that's how they found out it was too small. she did full labor both times). They decided not to have any more children, for her sake...but they were agreed on it. Some husbands don't want 3,4 or 5 + children; some are gracious because their wives do; and others want bushels of them 

[lewisquiverfull]

I totally agree with you guys. Whatever you and  your husband agree on, go for it. I am just wondering at this time if I will ever sit through a whole church service without taking a baby in the nursery!  They are such a blessing, and so much work!

[healthybratt]

What's "quiver-full minded"? 

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.  As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.  Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them...
~Proverbs 127:3-5

[mishy]

LOL.  I am familiar with the term quiver full and where it comes from, but there are different defs according to diff people and I was wondering what the definition of blessedwife's friends was.
 

[blessedwife]

oh i'm sorry!  should have clarified that...  anyway, my experience has been that people who regard themselves as "quiver-full" minded are those who don't choose to use birth control and hope for as many children as the Lord will send.
--Blessedwife

[FaithAcre]

Here's my definition of quiver-full:

Not necessarily wanting a whole honk load of children, but being happy and satisfied with however many the Lord chooses to bless you with.  To me it's a trust issue.

Here's a quote from Nancy Campbell from Above Rubies, that sums it up perfectly for me:

"When you surrender your fertility to the Lord, you can be happy knowing you have the children God planned for you to have, whether it be two or ten" ~Nancy Campbell~

Now having said all this, hubby had a vasectomy almost 4 years ago.  We have since been convicted and now realize that this is against God's plan for us.  When God blessed Adam and Eve and told them to be fruitful and multiply, that word "blessed" not only means gift, but also function.  The Bible is really full of scripture regarding children being blessings.  Really, this is one way we are to further His kingdom, by producing godly seed.  Yes, there are no scriptures telling us exactly how many to have, but see the quote above for the answer to that.

Hubby is still in the undecided stages of what yet to do about a reversal.  However, we know that God will lead us and provide so long as we are obedient to His will.

Now it seems irresponsible to the worlld to just go on "blindly" having children.  But God knows it all...He knows what our bodies are going to go through.  I mean, He did after all curse women to have sorrow (birth pangs) while bringing children into the world.  So that's what happens. 

So, there ya go   My humble opinion.

 Go to God first with anything!

[~esposita~]

A question for beeyoutifulgirl:

My hubby and I are excited to try neem seed oil.  I called organixsouth and inquired about their products.  They did NOT recommend taking the oil, and said that it may couse stomach irritation, because it is stronger than the herbal capsules.  It seems that if we were to buy the oil and make our own capsules (as you and your husband did/do), it would be more cost effective.  Did your hubby ever experience any stomach irritations with taking the oil?  Do you (does he) plan to continue taking the oil, or was he going to switch to the leaf capsules?  Any suggestions on where to get the "best" oil - I've looked at both banyan botanicals and organixsouth, as well as a bunch of other distributers and see big differences in cost.  Any other suggestions? 

Thanks bunches!

[StephTallent]

A question for beeyoutifulgirl:

My hubby and I are excited to try neem seed oil.  I called organixsouth and inquired about their products.  They did NOT recommend taking the oil, and said that it may couse stomach irritation, because it is stronger than the herbal capsules.  It seems that if we were to buy the oil and make our own capsules (as you and your husband did/do), it would be more cost effective.  Did your hubby ever experience any stomach irritations with taking the oil?  Do you (does he) plan to continue taking the oil, or was he going to switch to the leaf capsules? 

I called Organixsouth and talked to them last week.  I asked what (in their experience) the most effective way of using Neem as a contraceptive was.  She said that when the man only takes it that they have had reports of it not being nearly as effective as the man and woman taking the "gel" caps that they sell (I thought this was the oil??  ) and using the Neem oil as a lubricant.  She said that the combination of the three things have had the very best success. 

I haven't read (and forgot to ask, she seemed in a hurry) why it was important for the woman to take it as well?  Does anybody know?

[jenny4wen]

I called Organix South, and talked to a very informative lady named Shawna.  You can possibly get pregnant using the smaller amounts, she suggested using the Supercritical Extract (both wife and hubby) but if you were to concieve, there is a major possiblity of your body aborting the baby.  She started taking the TheraNeem Leaf capsules, and found out she was pregnant already, and stopped taking them.  Her baby is fine (still not born).  I asked about other options on preventing pregnancy without me taking it.  She said the Neem Leaf and Oil Cream (in two different scents) could be used, but it can irritate the sensitive skin, and using Pure Neem Oil as a lubricant would probably be the next best thing.  Then the neem isn't in your system, so if conception does occur, abortion isn't the result.  She also mentioned if you decide you are ready for a baby, wait 6 or 7 months after taking the oil, to make sure it is out of your systerm.  The Supercritical Extract tablets are not very cheap, but it just might be worth it   You can order directly through OrganixSouth, or you can find a local dealer, and not pay shipping, but prettymuch the same price.  Hope this helps!
~Jenny

PS she said if hubby is used to eating herbs, this shouldn't upset his stomach

[organixsouth]

Hi Ladies! I'm the formulator and founder of Organix-South and have been working with neem for about ten years now.  Was wondering where all these flurries of birth control inquiries have been coming from! I love the conversation here, and am impressed with the amount of research some of you are putting into this. We get a bit nervous recommending neem as a natural birth control (the FDA also would get really cranky with us, as it hasn't gone through the proper medicinal channels'), but I'll happily recommend where you can find the best research and the feedback we get from people, so you can make your own educated decisions. I have to say that we do not sell neem as a birth control method. What you do with it is up to you (sorry for the disclaimer). There is a direct link from our website to a medline database of scientific journals. http://www.organixsouth.com/articles_infoneem.html
I also have a synopsis of all the recent research done that I'd be happy to share with anyone (if I could figure out how to post the word document, I would).

Regarding quality of oil, this is VERY VERY VERY important! You can get neem oil from India that is solvent expelled, the second and third pressing, contaminated, etc. Neem is often not recommended internally by Indians because it can be easily contaminated with aflatoxin (a common but toxic mold that likes to grow on seeds). Our oil is tested and certified to be free of this toxin. We also do several other tests, potency, purity, microbial - its the best neem oil available. I would assume that most reputable US companies do the same. I haven't tested Banyan's neem, but I have used some of their other stuff, and found it to be fantastic.

So...if I was going to use neem as a birth control, I would use the pure oil as a lubricant. (Be ready for the smell, ladies! It has a nutty-garlic or burnt garlic odor - which perhaps out of necessity I have come to love...) I might add a few drops of lavender or rose geranium essential oil, both non-irritating, but smell nice. I would also take the supercritical leaf capsules internally. The regular leaf capsules are less expensive and would have basically the same action, but the recommended dose is 4-6 capsules a day verses 1-2. I would also ask my husband to take the capsules internally. Its been shown to slow sperm mobility with no genetic or long term effects. The research is inconclusive why it works for the woman to take internally, but the thought is that it boosts your immune response, telling your body that sperm is a foreign agent.

No side effects either with neem. Like with other Ayurvedic herbs, we like to say they have side benefits not side effects. Neem internally is often used as an adaptogenic herb, bringing your body into balance.  Helps build the immune system, stabilize digestion, promotes clear, healthy skin, stabilizes blood sugar levels, supports healthy levels of yeast (think Candida). Topically, it is a natural anti-viral, soothes irritated skin, and has similar properties to tea tree but is high in soothing and moisturizing fatty acids. The only people we do not recommend to take internally are those who are pregnant or nursing, trying to conceive (male or female) and those on blood thinners.

If you have any questions, let me know. Hope I didn't sound too much like a commercial!

Best of health,
Autumn Blum
Organix-South, Inc.
888-989-6336
www.organixsouth.com

 

[petrimama]

  I did some internet searches on neem and found that it has about a zillion benefits, and is a very effective topical spermicide.  However, it is also listed as an abortificient to be avoided by anyone who is pregnant or may become pregnant.  Below are 2 of many passages that describe the risks.  I have not posted the benefits simply because I figured that anyone reading this is probably aware that they exist.  I am not trying to be biased, just conserving time and space.
  Also, this is along slightly different lines than what I have listed below, but I read that some men use neem oil topically to slightly desensitize their most sensitive area in order to delay the inevitable for the sake of their wives.  (I hope that was clear and tactful.)  I mention this simply because some might not desire this effect.


The following was taken from www.sisterzeus.com/neem.html

WOMEN:  "Neem oil has also been found to prevent implantation and may even have an abortifacient effect similar to pennyroyal, juniper berries, wild ginger, myrrh and angelica. The effects were seen as many as ten days after fertilization in rats though it was most effective at no more than three days. (Sinha, et al, 1984); (Lal et al, 1985). In a study on rats, neem oil was given orally eight to ten days after implantation of the fetus on the uterine wall. In all cases, by day 15, the embryos were all completely resorbed by the body. The animals regained fertility on the next cycle showing no physical problems. Detailed study of the rats revealed increased levels of gamma interferon in the uterus. The neem oil enhanced the local immune response in the uterus.(Mukherjee, 1996) Post coital use of neem oil as birth control does not appear to work by hormonal changes but produces changes in the organs that make pregnancy no longer viable (Tewari, 1989) (Bardham, 1991)"


This was taken from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9228306&dopt=Abstract

PROBLEM: To develop a self-administered, orally delivered method for abrogation of early pregnancy. METHOD: Use of purified Neem extracts containing immunomodulators stimulating Th1 cells and macrophages; test animals, rats, baboons, and monkeys, onset of pregnancy confirmed by surgery and counting of implants on day 7 in rats and by chorionic gonadotropin (CG) and progesterone assays in primates; termination defined by complete resorption on day 15 in rats and by bleeding and decline of CG and progesterone in baboons.
 RESULTS: Pregnancy was terminated successfully in both rodents and primates with no significant side effects. Fertility was regained in both species after one or two irregular cycles. Progeny born had normal developmental landmarks and mothered normal litters in the course of time. The active principle in Neem has been partially fractionated by activity-guided purification. A cascade of events are involved in abrogation of pregnancy. In primates, a decrease in progesterone is an early event. A transient increase in CD4 and CD8 cells is noted in spleen at 96 hr and in mostly CD8 cells in mesenteric lymph nodes. Treatment causes an elevation of both immunoreactive and bioactive TNF-alpha and gamma-interferon in serum, mesenteric lymph nodes, and foetoplacental tissue. CONCLUSION: Immunomodulators of plant origin are potentially usable for termination of unwanted pregnancy

  So my question is this:  In what forms does neem NOT pose any risk of abortion (should it be used by the male or female, topical or oral, oil or cream or herb, etc.) and what is the corresponding effectiveness at preventing conception?  I am interested in safe, natural contraception, but NOT birth control that affects the viability of a fertilized egg.
  Maybe organixsouth could help with this?  (Although I assume it would have to be unofficially, not as a rep for the company, right?)
    Thanks!                                                                       ~Layla

[healthybratt]

I also have a synopsis of all the recent research done that I'd be happy to share with anyone (if I could figure out how to post the word document, I would).

This information has been posted HERE.

[Gabriel Anast]

I currently take Neem internally, but I have not used Organix South, I just use a high quality expeller pressed oil... however after reading Autum's note, I would highly recommend using their oil. Everything they sell is very high quality.

I believe that the only non-abortifacient use of Neem is for the male to take it internally. Having said that, we have not yet "put Neem to the test" as we also very successfully use the timing method.

Basically I have been using Neem daily to determine any long term effects. When we decide to have our fourth, we'll try for a few months while I am still on Neem... we'll tell you when it happens

As a side note:

I have had some sort of latent septic infection since I was about 12. It would surface in case of injury. Whenever I got a significant cut or abrasion I would also get a nasty infection... I could never be sure that the infection had not been introduced from "outside" but it was always so quick to develop and so persistent that it was a little freaky.

I also had a lot of boils when I was about 18 to 22 years old.

OK, so since I have been taking Neem for a year or so, I have had a couple significant cuts/abrasions and no accompanying infection. I believe (with no clinical evidence) that taking the Neem cleared out the sepsis (blood infection) that I think I have had for years.

For what that's worth...

So, long story short... Neem can possibly be used as birth control many different ways, but we think the only way that it can be used that is not abortive is for the Husband to take it orally on a daily basis. According to the limited literature it takes six weeks of taking about 6 drops of pure neem seed extract per day to become "infertile." Then it takes about 6 weeks after discontinuing Neem to become completely fertile again.

In a test of neem's birth control effects with members of the Indian Army, daily oral doses of several drops of neem seed oil in gelatin capsules were given to twenty married soldiers. The effect took six weeks to become 100 percent effective, it remained effective during the entire year of the trial and was reversed six weeks after the subjects stopped taking the capsules. During this time the men experienced no adverse side effects and retained their normal capabilities and desires. (Vietmeyer, 1992) There were no pregnancies of any of the wives during the period of the study. ... this also from the sisterzeus site

How it works... and why a lot of folks won't try it:

It is thought that the reason Neem works so well as an "anti-fertility" agent in men is that once concentrations of some part of the neem seed extract are high enough, the sperm chromosomes do not develop properly. The obvious fear is birth defects.

Here are a couple links that are more or less relevant:

http://ansinet.org/fulltext/jbs/jbs1111021-1027.pdf (no relation to human sperm, but it describes the chromosomal activity of Neem for use as an insecticide)

Vietmeyer, 1992 - book

The reason I am willing to try it is that Neem has a very long (centuries long) anecdotal and ethno-botanical history as a birth control agent. Whether and how the chromosomal effects work is still not known...

I need to write more... but I have to go... more later!

--gabe