Author Topic: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments  (Read 39865 times)

YoopreMama

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2010, 01:09:03 PM »
Oh, you offer welcome support and good questions.  :-*
I have very little to offer, friend :)

Quote
My SIL says she started perimenopause at 37 and is now 52 and still gets cycles.  Now's she's having real menopause symptoms.  Over all those years she has taken nothing herbal to support herself, nor has she dealt with her nutrition.  She's been pretty miserable.

You "could" be in perimenopause, but you have such good health I'd be surprised.

I never even knew there was such a thing until today.   ::)  Trying to find the best thread...this had some similar experiences, so I thought I'd try here.   ;)

Quote
Mom-aunt-sister-granny history?
Good thought...will check w/ Mom.  Doubtful I'll gain more than hers.  :-\

Quote
Currently taking anything for hormone help?  EPO?  Vitex?  Wild yam?
On Super EPO, but been on that for a long time.  Was taking RRL infusions but have been slacking in the last 2 months.

Quote
Could you be preg?
Nope.

Quote
Is it time to wean?
Not IMO or his.   :D

Quote
I'd think (dunno) that you'd need about a year of symptoms and some things other than spotting to believe you're in perimenopause.

But that's just me . . .  :o
That's welcome news...hope it's true!

Better get that overdue annual exam scheduled.   :P

Offline hi_itsgwen

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2010, 06:44:57 PM »
I found this:
"Other causes of irregular bleeding include polycystic ovarian syndrome, stress, or obesity. As you approach menopause, progesterone has a tendency to reduce sooner than estrogen and the imbalance of hormone can cause spotting or irregular periods."

Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/questions/10xk7-hi-i-have-been-lightly-spotting-between-periods-for-the#ixzz0cH9mA9Ve

If I had to guess, I'd say maybe it's stress related.  Next, I'd guess a hormone shift to where you need some progesterone. :)

I don't think this is all that unusual, and I wouldn't link it to perimenopause...moreso to stress/breastfeeding/hormone shifts, etc.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 07:38:12 PM by hi_itsgwen »
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YoopreMama

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2010, 03:08:41 AM »
Thanks, Gwen, that was helpful...they had a link on that page that was pretty comprehensive:  http://www.aafp.org/afp/991001ap/1371.html.

Could have been holiday stress... ::)  Hormone shifting is also a factor, I'm guessing, w/ nursing and other factors.

 :-*

Offline mommyjen

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 10:01:30 AM »
Quote
Is it time to wean?
Not IMO or his.   :D

This made me  :).

Yooper, the one thing I wanted to mention is that if there is any pre-menopausal hormonal shifts going on it might be prudent get your hormone levels checked to, especially if you'd like more children. The couple moms I know who had an earlyish pre-menopause ended up having several heartbreaking miscarriages (early and farther along) before they finally just stopped conceiving.  :'(  I always wondered if progesterone supplementation would have helped carry their babies full term (they say that the eggs are older too and miscarriages can result from a baby who did not form properly). The thing is, and I need to research further, that hormone tests may not be accurate when breastfeeding.  There are mail in labs and there's one in Oregon I have spoken with and really like that the author of What your doctor won't tell you about menopause recommends.  

Also, I wouldn't see how extended breastfeeding would cause pre-menopause.   ???  Out of the two women I know who had early pre-menopause one was a babywise mama (all babies slept through the night at 6 wks) and the other an  extended nursing/family bed mama.  

« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 10:30:27 AM by mommyjen »
Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.


Offline txseawater

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2010, 10:16:05 AM »
I want to post ( while my brain is clear!  ::) ) a collective of info on specific help for perimenopause that might take a few months to formulate because of the time it takes to research and include everyone's ideas or experiences. Please post as much as you know about any given remedy including synergistic and opposing things. I will revise this list as regularly as I can, and as I learn. Here's a beginning rundown on things I have been advised or have seen to add to the daily ( or sometimes / regularly?)
dietary regime:

OILS:
Lavender
Rosemary
Evening Primrose
Cod Liver
Golden Flax Seed ( oil or whole )  *I believe if fresh ground daily, use 3 tbsp. daily - and 1-2 tbsp if using something like Barleans. Fights Cancer, promotes general health

Are there any other oils?
How to take or use, and how much? Best quality brands and best price suggestions are most welcome on these!  

TEAS:
Red Raspberry Leaf ( female support)
Catnip
Peppermint
Chamomile ( induces sleep )
Kava Kava ( calming )
Scullcap ( nerve healing )

I know that Alvita is a good brand. But I have found them to be expensive.  Please submit more thoughts on teas - or tinctures etc...

SUPPLEMENTS:
B- 12
B-2

C ( arguments on how much is needed daily?? I heard you can do a cleanse with C but be prepared for loose bowels! )

Magnesium ( Can you overdose? I have been loading myself down with 1500 mg per day Natures Bounty & I just bought a highly absorbable proprietary blend of Magnesium Citrate in ionic form - gonna try to figure out the right amount to use per day unless someone else just knows. Stools have become softer y'all!  ;) )

Potassium
Iron ( What is Floradix - where to find?)
L-Lysine ( acid / alkaline balance , circulation, immune system boost )
Ginseng ( energy)
Iodine  ( ? )
Acidophilus

FOODS AND JUICES:
Tart Sour Cherry ( migraine relief )
Celery ( natural diuretic )

Where is Tart Sour Cherry found, what brand(s), and how much to use?  Please submit more ideas in this category.

THINGS TO AVOID:
Coffee / Caffeine :(

Migraineurs - chocolate, wine, eggs, peanuts ( controversy on other nuts )

THINGS THAT CANCEL OUT, ABSORB, OR FLUSH OUT OTHER THINGS:
???

And from what I am seeing PROGESTERONE PROGESTERONE PROGESTERONE!!! Almost like we can not get too much. Natural Progesterone Cream is TOPS!

What else, LADIES ? :-*

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 06:42:06 AM by txseawater »
Sea ~~~_/) ~~~

YoopreMama

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2010, 10:25:21 AM »
Quote
Is it time to wean?
Not IMO or his.   :D

This made me  :).
;D  Exactly. 
Quote
Yooper, the one thing I wanted to mention is that if there is any pre-menopausal hormonal shifts going on it might be prudent get your hormone levels checked to, especially if you'd like more children. The couple moms I know who had an earlyish pre-menopause ended up having several heartbreaking miscarriages (early and farther along).  :'(  I always wondered if progesterone supplementation would have helped carry their babies full term (they say that the eggs are older too and miscarriages can result from a baby who did not form properly). The thing is, and I need to research further, that hormone tests may not be accurate when breastfeeding.  There are mail in labs and there's one in Oregon I have spoken with and really like that the author of What your doctor won't tell you about menopause recommends.
You are reading my mind here...I do want more children and would be concerned about miscarriage.  Can you get me the info on the lab in Oregon? 

Quote
Also, I wouldn't see how extended breastfeeding would cause pre-menopause.   ???  Out of the two women I know who had early pre-menopause one was a babywise mama (all babies slept through the night at 6 wks) and the other an  extended nursing/family bed mama.
I'm clueless in this area.   ::)

I have an appt. a week from Wed., so we'll see what she says.  I have no idea her expertise in this area, but will find out.  Have a Dr. Lee book on request from the library re: this topic.

Thank you for the reply!   :-*

Offline txseawater

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 10:27:14 AM »
Not sure about pre-menopausal symptoms in women still desiring children, but one thing I think is true is that women who tend to miscarry are having a deficiency in Folic Acid and should get a good brand supplement and allow their bodies to rest and recoup after having had a pregnancy or baby. Any more thoughts on this?  
Sea ~~~_/) ~~~

Offline mommyjen

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2010, 10:48:36 AM »
Not sure about pre-menopausal symptoms in women still desiring children, but one thing I think is true is that women who tend to miscarry are having a deficiency in Folic Acid and should get a good brand supplement and allow their bodies to rest and recoup after having had a pregnancy or baby. Any more thoughts on this?  

Oh, this is off topic and I'm gonna get in trouble, but YES! I have a dear friend who had so many miscarriages (well over a years time) when trying to conceive their first.  Finally a good dr. could see from some lab tests that she wasn't absorbing folic acid very well and but her on a crazy dose (but I think with a good brand/source she could of used much less) and the conceived and carried a baby full term shortly after supplementing.  Now they have the most precious baby girl!  You can get vitamin levels checked and I'm gonna do that b4 trying to conceive next time to help ensure babe's optimal health and immunity.  A, D, folic acid, b12, and zinc are some but I know there's more they check.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 11:16:49 AM by mommyjen »
Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.


Offline mommyjen

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2010, 12:12:31 PM »
Yooper, here's some info bout testing from Dr. Lee's site:

Quote
The kits come from ZRT Labs, a respected provider of hormone testing products. For help in deciding which saliva tests you should order, feel free to take our online Hormone Balance Test.

Hormone Balance Test
http://www.johnleemd.com/store/resource_hormonetest.html

ZRT Labs (in Beaverton, OR)
http://www.zrtlab.com/

Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.


YoopreMama

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2010, 02:49:25 PM »
Thanks, Jen!   :-*

I look to be in the Cortisol Deficient category, which wouldn't surprise me...

Offline boysmama

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2010, 04:26:21 PM »
Not sure about pre-menopausal symptoms in women still desiring children, but one thing I think is true is that women who tend to miscarry are having a deficiency in Folic Acid and should get a good brand supplement and allow their bodies to rest and recoup after having had a pregnancy or baby. Any more thoughts on this?  

Oh, this is off topic and I'm gonna get in trouble, but YES! I have a dear friend who had so many miscarriages (well over a years time) when trying to conceive their first.  Finally a good dr. could see from some lab tests that she wasn't absorbing folic acid very well and but her on a crazy dose (but I think with a good brand/source she could of used much less) and the conceived and carried a baby full term shortly after supplementing.  Now they have the most precious baby girl!  You can get vitamin levels checked and I'm gonna do that b4 trying to conceive next time to help ensure babe's optimal health and immunity.  A, D, folic acid, b12, and zinc are some but I know there's more they check.
Maybe not as far off topic as you might think!  Toxicity and poor nutrition,digestion, and absorption are behind the folate deficiencies AND low progesterone production or high estrogen which blocks progesterone. They go hand in hand! This can be discussed further here.

Offline hi_itsgwen

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2010, 05:04:30 PM »
Quote
Also, I wouldn't see how extended breastfeeding would cause pre-menopause.   ???  Out of the two women I know who had early pre-menopause one was a babywise mama (all babies slept through the night at 6 wks) and the other an  extended nursing/family bed mama.
I'm clueless in this area.   ::)
Just in case I wasn't clear, I wasn't suggesting that extended breastfeeding causes pre-menopause.  But breastfeeding shifts *can* cause hormone shifts, and her little one just had a nursing strike due to illness.  There are just so many factors that can affect hormones, that I'd hesitate to call it pre-menopause at this point, and look in other directions.  Great insight with the folic acid ideas Jen!
Come see me at www.gwens-nest.com
♥ Check out our family favorite recipes, funny kid stories, natural remedies and other creative and fun stuff.

Offline txseawater

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2010, 06:16:24 PM »
 8) Keep on going girls!! It's right!!
Sea ~~~_/) ~~~

Offline mykidsmom

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2010, 08:04:07 PM »
Yooper, here's some info bout testing from Dr. Lee's site:

Quote
The kits come from ZRT Labs, a respected provider of hormone testing products. For help in deciding which saliva tests you should order, feel free to take our online Hormone Balance Test.

Hormone Balance Test
http://www.johnleemd.com/store/resource_hormonetest.html

ZRT Labs (in Beaverton, OR)
http://www.zrtlab.com/


Have done this full panel test several times and it is extremely thorough and accurate.  Absolutely recommend it if you're having hormone issues.

patti
For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day.

Offline mommyjen

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 04:23:35 PM »
Have done this full panel test several times and it is extremely thorough and accurate.  Absolutely recommend it if you're having hormone issues.

patti

Good to know!
Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.


Offline Beth

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2010, 09:07:11 AM »
I want to post ( while my brain is clear!  ::) ) a collective of info on specific help for perimenopause that might take a few months to formulate because of the time it takes to research and include everyone's ideas or experiences. Please post as much as you know about any given remedy including synergistic and opposing things. I will revise this list as regularly as I can, and as I learn. Here's a beginning rundown on things I have been advised or have seen to add to the daily ( or sometimes / regularly?)
dietary regime:

OILS:
Lavender
Rosemary
Evening Primrose
Cod Liver
Golden Flax Seed ( oil or whole )  *I believe if fresh ground daily, use 3 tbsp. daily - and 1-2 tbsp if using something like Barleans. Fights Cancer, promotes general health

Are there any other oils?
How to take or use, and how much? Best quality brands and best price suggestions are most welcome on these!  

TEAS:
Red Raspberry Leaf ( female support)
Catnip
Peppermint
Chamomile ( induces sleep )
Kava Kava ( calming )
Scullcap ( nerve healing )

I know that Alvita is a good brand. But I have found them to be expensive.  Please submit more thoughts on teas - or tinctures etc...

SUPPLEMENTS:
B- 12
B-2

C ( arguments on how much is needed daily?? I heard you can do a cleanse with C but be prepared for loose bowels! )

Magnesium ( Can you overdose? I have been loading myself down with 1500 mg per day Natures Bounty & I just bought a highly absorbable proprietary blend of Magnesium Citrate in ionic form - gonna try to figure out the right amount to use per day unless someone else just knows. Stools have become softer y'all!  ;) )

Potassium
Iron ( What is Floradix - where to find?)
L-Lysine ( acid / alkaline balance , circulation, immune system boost )
Ginseng ( energy)
Iodine  ( ? )
Acidophilus

FOODS AND JUICES:
Tart Sour Cherry ( migraine relief )
Celery ( natural diuretic )

Where is Tart Sour Cherry found, what brand(s), and how much to use?  Please submit more ideas in this category.

THINGS TO AVOID:
Coffee / Caffeine :(

Migraineurs - chocolate, wine, eggs, peanuts ( controversy on other nuts )

THINGS THAT CANCEL OUT, ABSORB, OR FLUSH OUT OTHER THINGS:
???

And from what I am seeing PROGESTERONE PROGESTERONE PROGESTERONE!!! Almost like we can not get too much. Natural Progesterone Cream is TOPS!

What else, LADIES ? :-*



So, txsea how is this going for you??
It all looks really good. 43 and dealing tiredness all the time. So I'm starting to research age appropriate natural healing... :) ;)
If you see this let us know how its all working. What you've changed or are doing differently.
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline amy

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2010, 09:42:10 AM »
I have a friend who's going through menopause and wants to take black cohosh for her hot flashes.  I've seen this recommended in many herbal remedy books, but no dosages were listed.  Does anyone know how much a person should take?  She came across an article about a lady who suffered severe liver damage after using too much black cohosh for menopause...could this really be true?  I've never seen any warnings about this possibility.  Can anyone shed some light on this issue?

Thanks,
Amy

Offline wlwest

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2012, 11:48:55 AM »
Ok, I am miserable! :P  Can anyone give any opinions here are my symptoms:
extreme vaginal itching/burning(not when urinating, unless I've been itching like crazy), haven't really noticed any discharge, but it's hard to tell because I use coconut oil with tea tree or lavender/miracle salve, and whatever else I can think of to help. 
]can't sleep very well at night, maybe get 4 to 5 hours of sleep
fatigued(probably because not sleeping
migrainesEspecially at the end of my period
thirst
irritable
My period varies from 24 to 28 days but now it seems to be getting shorter 24 to 26 days  And it's been heavier with some crampiness, which I usually don't have
muscle aches
I have been trying everything I can think of, the biggest problem is the itching and burning, it's been a month and a half now and it's not letting up.  I've been having this problem for almost 5 years now, after the birth of my last child who will be 5 in a few weeks.  The last time I suffered with this, the phys assistant said it was BV.  I went for a while without getting it, but now it's been coming back again and the more it comes the worse it gets.  After reading and researching perimenopause I have almost all the symptoms except for hot flashes.  I was reading that vaginal dryness can make you more prone to getting vaginal infections like BV?
I ordered a product called macafem, I'm hoping it will regulate my hormones.  Between the headaches and the vag irritation it's very hard to function. 
I'm planning on taking a apple cider vinegar bath soon, hoping that will help.  Maybe my ph is off? 
Ok, if anyone can help with ideas for this vag irritation I would be so grateful, I've learned to live with the other symptoms, but this irritation is soooo bad, and is cutting into intimacy with dh.  :'(

Thanks,
Wendy

Offline DHW

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2012, 07:51:27 PM »
You might try Aveeno Calamine and Pramoxine HCl to help with the itching.  Not natural, but effective for short-term use. 

The itching you are describing can be an allergic reaction to something that you are taking orally, believe it or not.






Offline wlwest

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2012, 10:18:47 AM »
Just thought I'd post this in case it might help any other women out there,  I've been suffering for a while with BV or at least symptoms close to it.  (def not yeast infection, had enough of those to know what that is).  I tried a product called femmesil.  I can't say for sure that it cured it, because I also did a bunch of other stuff, namely a garlic clove, and ACV bath.  But, it did seem to help with itching and burning. 
I don't know if I am going thru pre-menopause but I know my hormones are out of whack!  It's hard to tell which one is the culprit because it seems they have overlapping symptoms.  so I've also been trying something called macafem, if it helps I will surely let everyone know.   :) 

I think I need to keep a journal to keep track of my symptoms at which time of month, maybe that will help pinpoint things.  I do know I was feeling good after my period ended, and I'm pretty sure I'm ovulating now, and I have my normal headaches, and nausea.  So, there must be a connection, maybe. 
Ok, I'm just rambling, just thought I'd let everyone know about the femmesil, it's for any itching or irritation, or infection, its all natural.
wendy

Offline DHW

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2012, 08:59:25 AM »
Just wanted to say that I have been doing some reading on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/ and it looks like chronic conditions, especially painful ones, may respond to a low oxalate diet.  It might be worth looking into - along with everything else!

Offline txseawater

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2012, 08:48:48 AM »
PERI-MENOPAUSE... sigh...  Looks like not much change since I last posted concerning migraines, but I do have more of a physical / medical novel that I could write since I was last here! I won't do that right now. I can say that no matter what - no matter what changes I have made to diet and routine etc... my migraines have been cyclic and absolutely like clockwork for over three years with every single ovulation and every single period skipping NONE!! Periods come about every 20-22 days now instead of 28 days, and a migraine can last from 3 days to 10. They have been severe and debilitating. Last August, I presented with transient ischemic attack symptoms and some vasospasm and went to the Drs. All that is where my novel could come in! Nevertheless, I have come down to believing God for my healing above all else, and He is Faithful to carry me through my toughest days. I think possibly my head is getting better? Last few months, my migraines have not been as severe, but the last two I've had went on for 6 days and began one week after starting!? So yeah, I turned around and went through an additional 3 day ovulation migraine. Wacky. Yesterday was probably the most surprising to me in terms of pain, and it wasn't a migraine this time! So far this period, no migraine! ??? I just had afterbirth type menstrual cramps ALL DAY LONG AND ALL NIGHT LONG! I have not had that kind of pain since Little Man Ezra was born 9 yrs ago! Flooding was normal - the usual 2nd day kind. But WOW! The cramps were AMAZING!! This morning, it really felt like I had been in early labor.  I took a Fioricet mid-morning and I'm feeling much better. ( I had to have my prescription filled & couldn't get it yesterday, so DH ran to get it for me this morning first thing! )  So along the adventurous path of perimenopause we go... ya think it's a hormonal imbalance?  ;)  I can't get the Drs. to help with that AT ALL.
Sea ~~~_/) ~~~

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2012, 03:49:39 AM »
PERI-MENOPAUSE... sigh... ... ya think it's a hormonal imbalance? 

maybe this will give you some ideas you didn't think of yet.
http://bulkherbstore.blogspot.com/2010/01/hormone-imbalace-checklist.html
  My favorite herb book!!

Offline wlwest

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2012, 12:50:30 PM »
Ok, can someone PLEASE help me with these test results? :o  I did a saliva test and just got the results today.  I'm not sure exactly what they mean.  I went thru the ZRT labs.  Anyway, the estradiol was 3.0  my progesterone was 115  Ratio? Pg/E2 was 38.  Ok, so now that I'm looking again, there is also an L after that, I'm guessing my progesterone ratio to the estrogen is 38, which is pretty low right? 

Ok, so after reading again, the comment section says the progesterone is low-normal and ration of pg to es is low, consistent with symptoms of both estrogen dominance and estrogen deficiency.  Also it talks about functional thyroid deficiency. 
It also says that adrenals are fatigued, although the morning cortisol levels were in the expected range, but I only tested the morning, and since I have symptoms the levels could drop thru the day.

So, I'm a little confused, but how can I have est dominance and deficiency?  Would progesterone cream be helpful?  Or should I try herbs first?   ???
Help!  lol
Wendy

Offline DHW

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Re: Pre-Menopause/Perimenopause: Symptoms & Treatments
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2012, 04:55:13 PM »
Estrogen dominance means you are proportionally too high in estrogen compared to progesterone.  Estrogen deficiency means that your level of estrogen is too low.  Those two together means that you need to increase estrogen to normal levels and increase progesterone to complement the estrogen.  You are low in both hormones, and they are out of balance.

Can you call ZRT and ask to speak to someone about your test results?  If not, contact a compounding pharmacist and ask if he will help you interpret your results.

The adrenals need to be addressed, for sure.  You can look in the adrenal threads for suggestions on herbs and supplements.  I like the adrenal cortex products like Drenamin or Adaptagen together with an herbal supplement.  You may also need to support the pituitary and hypothalamus and later add something for thyroid.