Author Topic: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???  (Read 8273 times)

Offline Beth

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alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« on: March 12, 2007, 05:30:41 AM »
  Hi I have'nt posted in a long while we've been working on our house and moving no internet in the home. But I've been keeping up using the mobile web. I read alot of good info from you all!    So anyway I came across a thread titled alcoholism and it was referred to 7xsunday and was locked so I couldn't respond to it.      But I'm probably going to hear alot of negative response to this but here goes.     I have lived with an alcoholic for over 20 years . And as I'm into vitamins and health issues I've done my share of studying. Now I realize that is it a sin. (alcoholism)  I am not trying to say any different. However in  the same way that the sin of gluttony causes many health problems yet we are always looking for a cure in herbs and vitamins...     In my search for an answer I have come across some information someone might be interested in sometime.        Ever hear of the book Seven Weeks To Sobriety?        The DR. who wrote this had a son who died of alcoholism at young age. She knew he desperately wanted to be free yet couldn't seem to find a way out.  If you live with a alcoholic this might sound familiar. Any way she began to research it from a nutritional approach. The book is the results of her studies.  She has a website. Do a search under Bio Recovery I believe it is. This book will make sense from a nutritional approach if you have a understanding of such things at all.  I would encourage anyone who is looking for an answer to at least read it.   It could  help.    Also do some research on the herb kudzu.    It has been used by the chinese for centuries to lesson the desire for alcohol.     Some interesting studies are showing this to be true.     I sincerely hope this helps someone.  Again I am not saying there is no spiritual sin here I just know there could be help from a nutritional standpoint.     
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline Beth

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2007, 05:36:01 AM »
  I just looked the website is www.healthrecovery.com 
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline Gabe Rising

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2007, 06:44:15 AM »
Although I do believe that many health problems do have a moral / spiritual component... once one identifies the problem, there can be physical components that actually make recovery very difficult.

Thank you for commenting on this topic, as it is not very common on this site, but is a great need in more ways that you know. Addiction is so common in the US. I think that if one combines addiction statistics (alcohol, illegal drugs, prescription drug abuse) you get a figure of 1 in 5 Americans are addicted. This does not include smoking, prescription narcotic / psychoactives that are not considered addictions (Prozac, Ritalin, etc), nor does it include non-chemical addictions like pornography, TV, gambling, eating...

In many respects, Isaiah 28 reminds me more of the US than of any other nation in history: "Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim..."

We need help as a nation, a people. Some of that help is moral, but much can be offered by a friend who can understand... and some of this is undoubtedly nutritional.

Please, if you have specific experiences that have worked, share them with us.

--gabe

Offline daisey

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2007, 08:31:33 AM »
Beth---Thank you for the info.   I think so many times when we have never encountered a certain problem we get critical and don't really understand at all.
Gabe---amen to that.   :)
If we were a more understanding people (I didn't say tolerant) I think there would be more help  for those that need it.

Daisey
Be Still my soul, the Lord is on Thy Side

Offline freshisbest

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 08:47:31 AM »
Grew up in an alcoholic home...now that I am Born Again and have a renewed mind AND body I have no desire to pollute myself , injure myself, or watch anyone else do the same. I believe it STARTS in our mind...but doesn't take long for our bodies to follow suit. If our polluted mind convinces our body we need something synthetic to be 'normal' our body will follow suit. A weakened body made weak by synthetics can be made strong again...and probably synthetics can help it to " feel " normal for a period of time...allowing our minds to be conformed to believing what " normal " is. Does that make sense? Everyone's pathway to healing is different....and the Lord is the best judge of what one person needs. But a person has to BELIEVE in the Lord and his ability to heal ; the person has to believe he NEEDS to be healed! And has to WANT it. So it starts in the mind....where the desire began in the first place. A mental illness can quickly become a physical illness...since its our mind that determines what goes in to our body. That being said, God made medicine so he must have known some of us would need it! My husband once said to me The Lord will show us whats going on in the spiritual by whats going on in the physical.  So He can use physical illness to show us how he heals ... to help us understand the spiritual healing ... As well, something that was designed for our good can become bad for us if not used in the correct way or in the way it was originally intended. Everything starts with Knowing the Lord....learning his promises for us .....believing His Word is true and never changes...and we need to be healthy in mind and body to be able to witness that to those who need to hear. Am I making sense? I tend to talk too much ... if we ALL fall short, then our shortfalls just manifest in different ways. The Lord gave each of us unique problems so that we might help others with the same issues, not perish from them ourselves.

Offline Gabe Rising

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 11:23:22 AM »
As I recall, Ephedra (Mormon Tea) is sometimes used in stimulant recovery, and so is Ginseng.

I have also heard or read two things about Kombucha: namely that 1) Kombucha drunk in conjunction with alcohol reduces the effects of alcohol... both the mental (barbiturate type) effects and the liver damaging effects. 2) that Kombucha drinking can actually reduce an alcoholic's craving for alcohol.

I do not know whether either of these things are true, but I would love to hear any feedback that people might have.

--gabe

Offline healthybratt

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 11:29:03 AM »
I have also heard or read two things about Kombucha: namely that 1) Kombucha drunk in conjunction with alcohol reduces the effects of alcohol... both the mental (barbiturate type) effects and the liver
--gabe
I feel an experiment might be in order.  ;D
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Offline ForeverGirl

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 12:29:04 PM »
I have also heard or read two things about Kombucha: namely that 1) Kombucha drunk in conjunction with alcohol reduces the effects of alcohol... both the mental (barbiturate type) effects and the liver
--gabe
I feel an experiment might be in order.  ;D

Why isn't everyone shouting "Pick me, ooooh, pick me!"?   ;D  Or were you calling dibs on that experiment, HB?

I personally know a recovered alcoholic who comes by the house to buy kombucha from me because he says it makes his gut feel better. He even looks better - I think - since he has started drinking it. His buddies like to drink it as well, and some of them had/have alcohol problems. His wife is faithful about coming over to buy it for him!  ;)

The addiction problem Gabe mentioned really is rampant in this country. I can count the people I know who DON'T have an addiction. Think about it: how many Americans do you know that don't take a perscription drug, or need caffeine, sugar, alcohol, or SOME substance on a daily basis?

It's easy to point your finger at an addiction that isn't socially acceptable, meanwhile becoming a slave to one that is.

Rebekah
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 12:30:40 PM by BeeyoutifulGirl »
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Offline BJ_BOBBI_JO

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 12:30:12 PM »
I wish I could remeber where I have read this so please just take it as a thought since I cant find the source. I read that each human is differant and can be addicted to differant things according to how their bodies work. It said that those who are more prone to having sydrome X ( the insulin resistant genes) will be more likely to become alcoholics because of the high carb content in alcohol and syndrome X ppl become carb addicts easily.

Just like ppl have always said that various Native American tribes become alcoholics real easy. Native Americans have also tend to become sydrome X'ers also which leads to carbohydrate troubles which leads to type 2 diabetes and other illnesses.

I dunno why some get addicted to alchol while others get addicted to smoking, food,  and so on. it sure is hard on the family of the addicted ones. I also believe it can come from a nutritional problem.

I believe its more then just a spirtual mental matter. I wonder why its ok for Christians to have a food addict problem and become obese but its not ok for a Christian to become an alcoholic? I believe both are unhealthy and distructive, but yet we seem to accept 1 form of addiction over the other. .
( i know not all obese ppl are that way from food addiction)

I agree about the understanding part.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 02:24:09 PM by BJ_BOBBI_JO »

Offline healthybratt

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 12:47:38 PM »
Why isn't everyone shouting "Pick me, ooooh, pick me!"?   ;D  Or were you calling dibs on that experiment, HB?Rebekah
I never did get any vanilla beans...mmmm....but I do have some vodka.   ;D
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Offline healthyinOhio

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 02:43:29 PM »
I never did get any vanilla beans...mmmm....but I do have some vodka.   ;D

AHHHH!!! VANILLA!!!!!

I forgot!  I had a batch of vanilla brewing in a back cupboard for over three months, now!!  With Grandma being sick and passing, I totally forgot!  It must be nice and good, now!  Thanks for the reminder, HB.
Oops.  Sorry for splitting this thread!  :-X

Offline SarahK

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2007, 02:47:06 AM »
Why isn't everyone shouting "Pick me, ooooh, pick me!"?   ;D  Or were you calling dibs on that experiment, HB?Rebekah
I never did get any vanilla beans...mmmm....but I do have some vodka.   ;D

I had this typed in & then decided not to post : now I will.

When I am not pregnant (very rare) but just nursing the baby, I regularly have a nummy dark beer or hard cider with supper in the evening.  Probably 3-5 times a week.  This time (baby 'round Thanksgiving) I can count on one hand the number of beers/ciders I have had since she was born.  I got my scoby from HealthyInOhio in late December.  Now I have a pint at a time approx 2 out of 3 days.  And I am not choosing the beer.  I don't get it.  Why is this?  (suppose that should be in a Kombucha topic?)

Sarah K
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Offline Beth

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2007, 04:55:42 AM »
  I was surprised to see all the good response. I have felt for years that nutrition, supplements, and
 herbs could play a part in helping an alcoholic recover. The kombucha info was interesting I'll have to really study that thread. Its very long and I only have limited access to the internet. But I am finally going to learn how to make kombucha tea.
  I've done a lot of reading about this subject. For years actually I just had a hard time with knowing how much was really physical and how much was just plain old sin. This is what I've come up with . (Just my opinion) When a person begins to drink (to excess) at that point it is completely a spiritual problem. But as the alcohol begins to poison his/her system, a physical change begins to take place. Chemically in the brain, blood sugar, virtually every organ is affected in one way or another. (Now I am speaking of someone who is truly addicted to alcohol)   When this begins to happen your body actually begins to crave the very thing that is killing it. Withdrawl symptoms would occur if you tried to abstain for too long of period. Some people actually have to hospitalized to go through this. It can be bad!
     So doesn't it make sense that after this change has begun that a person could be helped with supplements and such like??  Actually you can now get presc. for a drug called Campral that is supposed to help balance the brain chemistry from long term drinking. I believe they are trying to replace the seratonin levels that have been depleted. The book I mentioned in an earlier post recommends L-Tryptophan to help do this. I also read about this in a thread on bi-polar disorder. Bee-you-tiful doesn't carry this yet do they???  Seven Weeks to Sobriety says this is one of the most important supplements to take for alcoholism. From what I've read I would agree.
     Many other things can go wrong in an alcoholic too. Yeast overgrowth! So yeast assasin and TT could be affective. Also the omega 3 supplement to help heal the leaky gut problems. Seven Weeks says alcoholics need supplements in large doses because they are so drastically depleted.
     From what I've read about kudzu and we have tried it .( I actually have some coming in the mail) It not only helps to lesson the desire for alcohol but will make a person uncomfortable if they do drink. Sort of like the drug antabuse. Only not to the extreme.
     We are using antabuse right now. Things were getting bad and he felt like he needed something to break the cycle. But it isn't natural and I would like to begin to fix the underlying physical problems.
     We are short on funds right now so I can't do as much as is recommended in the book. But I am going to start an absolute bare bones regime(sp?)       This would be kudzu, keep taking the antabuse, a good multi( like super dad), L-Tryptophan.  And eventually add the yeast assasin and TT as I can afford it .  In time quit taking the antabuse.
     As far as the spiritual side of it my plan of action is read Created again (time#5) and keep praying. You know this all can be so tiring. But praise God, He has not left us completely without knowledge.
     I want to start making kombucha tea. Any one have one ? I could pay shipping. You could PM me or e-mail me at (email removed for internet safety reasons - please PM the author). I don't have internet at our home yet so sometimes it takes me a while to respond. (I go to the library)
      Thanks for all the great response. What an encouragement.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 06:33:20 AM by BeeyoutifulGirl »
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline ForeverGirl

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2007, 06:41:33 AM »
It sounds like you are on the right track, and doing a great job! I would also recommend Silymarin/Milk thistle. It cleans toxins out of the liver, thereby decreasing the craving for addictive substances.

As far as spiritual help goes, there are a few threads on 7xsunday in "the Healing" section that may be of use. I would highly recommend the book "Reclaiming Surrendered Ground". It is a biblically based teaching on a very simple, instructive level. Also "Bondage Breakers." I think the author of both of those books is Jim Logan. You can find them at icbcinc.org

blessings on you, sister,

Rebekah
Honey Sunny in complete exasperation:
"JOE!!! You DOUGHNUT COCONUT COCONUT COCONUT!!!"

Offline ForeverGirl

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Re: alcoholism, Is it all a spiritual problem???
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2007, 07:08:00 AM »
One more thing: I worked at a D & A recovery in Hohenwald TN (as a cook) for a year and made friends with many of the recovering addicts.
From my perspective, the people that took on a hobby while in recovery, did better than those that just waited to get well. One guy took up art, a lady took up singing, and another writing, while one was totally consumed with taking care of a rose bush outside. These patients seemed to do better than the others.
I remember, at the time, thinking that these people felt worthless, and needed a real reason to feel worthy.
 
Secondly, I remember thinking that people - all people - need to feel loved. This need was especially  marked in the substance abuse ward. I used to write each one of them a note on the paper mat under their plates, making a point to use their first names, and comment on something I knew about them: "How's the singing going, Lily? I'd love to hear the Dolly Parden version of "Silver and Gold" this afternoon." "Can you draw the Wily Coyote, Chris?"

These are probably things you've already noticed and know well, having lived with someone who has an addiction, but I thought I'd mention them anyway...

Rebekah

Honey Sunny in complete exasperation:
"JOE!!! You DOUGHNUT COCONUT COCONUT COCONUT!!!"