Author Topic: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement  (Read 23519 times)

Offline mommyjen

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GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« on: February 25, 2010, 03:49:49 AM »
Day 1 of GAPS...sort of.   :P  We ate broth, meat, and veggies for each meal today but we're snacking on other stuff (sunbutter and celery and rice milk) till we run out (at least the kids will still be after today.) I have to say that I felt really good today!  Especially after lunch, so two rounds of broth.  Very calm and relaxed...almost sleepy/drugged!  I'm not minding since I've been rather irritable lately, so the mood change is nice.   Since I stopped dairy, I haven't been doing a calcium sub so I'm wondering if the calcium is doing that or if it's just the soothing of the intestinal tract/nerves, so nervous system or blood sugar regulation?  Not sure, but hubby was not feeling this way...just normal.   I felt not so great though after after noon snack mentioned previously so will not be helping use up snack food anymore.   :)  I'm still waiting for my books (gaps + guide) so I'm just going of the website intro info. One concern,  I'm not sure if we are going to do okay with eggs.  Do I have to stay eating soups (in stage 1) until I can tolerate them?  That's the impression I get, but that doesn't make any sense. Can I get some clarification here? Also, is there a minimum time I have to be on this stage?  We don't really have poo issues anymore (except undigested food) since we removed allergens. One last Q...I will start adding the garlic tomorrow, but ds tested allergic to garlic so I'm thinking I should leave that out for him? Thanks!  

Started my antifungals today which I am thankful for cause I've had the worst y infection that comes and goes and seems to be triggered by ovulation.  Anyone heard of that?  Could just be coincidental but it uncomfortable either way until I can get it under control with pbiotics and coconut oil. Had some weird symptoms that I'm not sure are related like flushing/warmth in my ears, but functioning pretty normally aka not much die off.

Will be purchasing some oregano oil and berberine antibacterial.  Is there anything else I should get?  I'd like to do these after my first week of antifungals is over (most die off is over by then if there is any) and am looking forward to this!  I really think ds esp. has dybosis in his gut. I know these aren't part of the gaps protocol but I'm all for speedier healing if possible.  Grin  Which is why we are doing GAPS, too!

WR, are you still in the prepping phase?  We just jumped into it even though no menu plan or kruat.  I realized that with the limited foods and pretty much just doing soups at first that it wasn't really necessary. Pretty easy to throw a soup together.  So the kraut will come shortly though.  

One last Q.  Can you just do the kraut/juice for the probiotic?  If we could save here that would be great.  Hubby am possibly a few of the boys could do kefir.  Thoughts?

I'm glad we are doing this! This is one of my best days in a long time.  I wonder if the iron supps are finally making a difference too.  I can't be sure, but I have a

« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 07:35:05 AM by mommyjen »
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Offline Whiterock

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 04:56:27 PM »
Well, we are still trying to get our act together, yes.  :-\
I still need to make the kraut, and buy a few more things.
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Offline boysmama

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 05:31:15 PM »
You can move on without doing eggs, but I'd recommend trying free range, soy free, organic ones about 2 weeks in.
 Do the skin test if it was a known allergen.
Anecdotal evidence indicates that egg allergies are one of the first to be healed. Be sure to introduce them the way it's described by stirring just the yolk into  the soup.

You want to take the allergy tests and keep them in mind, delay introducing those foods until you have others introduced and clear, but don't count the tests as conclusive. GAPS is about observing whether your digestive system and body can handle a food. You might have something you can't tolerate that didn't show up or one that showed on the test that reverses quickly.

Offline boysmama

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 05:33:05 PM »
Kraut juice is certainly better than nothing and a probiotic supplement won't replace kraut's benefits. Do what you can. We did only kraut and kefir.

Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 07:12:07 PM »
Thank you so much boysmama.  I really appreciate the tips and insights...helps so much!  I'm hoping most of my questions will be answered when the books get here, but there seems to be enough to get by on the site for now with a little help from  WTM mamas.  :-*  That would be such a blessing if we could eat eggs again!  Time will tell, but what a world that would open up.  The pancakes on stage 3 or whatever just wouldn't work without egg, I don't think.  

WR-Looking forward to your company here when you can stop in.  I'd love to hear about your heath journey some and what you are hoping to accomplish with GAPS.  Is your whole fam. doing it?

Well, we are still not full GAPS yet. I'm learning a lot about how much to make to feed my family (more than when we could eat grains...they are hungry in a few hours) so we had nuts as snacks today and finished off some brown rice from a few days ago that was already cooked in the fridge...wouldn't have cooked any though.  Hubby and I feel so hungry! I counted up the calories for 1 1/2 cups broth, 4 oz meat, and 2 cups veggies (a lot, more than we are eating really) and it only came to 600 calories or so per meal.  That is way less calories than we usually eat and we are both slender. So what I am thinking is it may be best to eat 4-5 times a day, since we eat till we are full but seem to get hungry shortly thereafter.  Hubby and I both felt incredibly fatigued today and I really think it was just we need to be eating more.  B4 GAPS I would have just put a bunch of fat in the soups but we're not there yet in the diet.  Milk supply is down as a heads up for exclusively nursing mamas, but my babe is eating lots of table food so I wasn't concerned about weight gain but he was fussier and just not too happy about it. Did the ginger tea w/honey between meals today and I liked it, very warming.  I'm surprised but so did my boys, or maybe it was the honey in it they liked.  :-\  Got cabbage today and will try to make kraut tomorrow.  Our local grocery store did not have organic (not buy all veggies organic but  think this is important) and the nearest HFS is a half hour away, so will have to get organic when we do errands next.  I know that conventional stuff doesn't have the same microbial count as organic and that can affect fermentation but I'm hoping for success anyways.  I still had the really drugged feeling after meals today. I am very tired and I wonder if just the warm, soothing drink gets me falling asleep in my seat at the table.   :-[ :-\  Anyways, I just read some stuff about how GAPS helps balance hormones and brings HCl levels back up.  Those are great benefits and I'm looking forward to reading more about it.  I still have no idea how long to do the into. but I'll do some online search for that.  About the PB- I'm thinking that those not allergic to kefir/dairy in the house are probably fine with kraut/kefir only, but those of us who aren't should probably do an additional pb along the kruat, unitil we can do coconut kefir or something, but even then I'm not sure if water/coconut kefir, etc. has a great of a pb count as dairy kefir.  Will have to check on that.  Good night all!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 07:13:53 PM by mommyjen »
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 07:30:54 PM »
Kraut juice is certainly better than nothing and a probiotic supplement won't replace kraut's benefits. Do what you can. We did only kraut and kefir.

I have been reading some really neat thinks about kraut!  It's the richest non animal food source of vitamin k2 (or whatever K westonaprice discovered to be a common denominater among healthy ppl groups) and it has another property that has a very profound healing effect on the intestianal tract.  A very, very healing food.  So neat to be able to make something so healing and nourishing with my own two hands for my family that like you said no even a supp. could match, and I'm saving a bundle to boot.  ;D

Really great article on the healing properties of cabbage:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=19

Patti- I found this today in the above and it made me think of you...

Quote
Isothiocyanates offer the bladder, in particular, significant protection, most likely because the majority of compounds produced by isothiocyanate metabolism travel through the bladder en route to excretion in the urine, suggested the researchers.
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Offline mykidsmom

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 08:09:29 PM »
Anecdotal evidence indicates that egg allergies are one of the first to be healed. Be sure to introduce them the way it's described by stirring just the yolk into  the soup.


This would definately have to be anecdotal because my experience has said it's one of the hardest allergies to heal!  When an egg allergy is caused by vaccines, we are seeing evidence that it may actually never heal because the vaccine that was cultured in egg is always in the body.  While we have seen slight (and I mean oh so slight) improvements on actual allergy tests, eggs continue to be not an option for several in my crew.  However, if one has had NO vaccines then I do believe gut healing alone can heal an egg allergy.

I will say that recently the ND and I decided to challenge eggs simply because if it's never going to heal, then why am I bothering buying gold eggs when I could be using our organic free range eggs that my own chickens are laying?  I've tested with two kids, they are fine.  But they were also my easy allergy kids.  Daddy and DS aren't even looking at them for at least another year. 

If gut healing alone cures eggs allergies we would have seen much better results by now as we've had a very strict diet for well over a year now. 

I know what the GAPS protocol says, I just know what our experience is in terms of healing egg allergies and our ND has concluded the same from his practice.  I think GAPS is a good option for some, but I don't think it's right or good for everyone.  I definately don't agree with her stand on supplements in healing. 

patti
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 07:53:38 AM »
  I think GAPS is a good option for some, but I don't think it's right or good for everyone.  

Patti, I'm not sure what your specific thoughts are but we are doing this diet to heal our gut/ and I really believe...damaged villi.  From what I understand you need to go off dissacharides for the villi to heal if they have been damaged to heal the them to the point that they can make enzymes again to digest on their own and be able to absorb nutrients again like they should.  Bone broth and kraut are extremely healing to the GI and this diet is all about healing the gut.  Been reading lots of third party research and even some studies about those two foods.  I'm not sure I think she outlines an elimanation diet all that well to use this as a way to discover allergies...she insists every one use garlic from the beginning with no mention that some may be allergic and it may been to be skipped or introduced later.  Although I do not that some ppl can do garlic once there yeast/bacteria are gone cause they are reacting to it in a die off way, even with blood tests if you've got critters in the blood, and it may be a good thing to just keep killing off the bad guys.  :-\   It's complicated but I'm doing this diet to bring speedier healing than just removing allergies would do, especially since I believe that we have damaged villi going on and I'm fairly certain that avoiding dissacharides is key for healing.  Still learning, but am thinking we are on the right track.  About supplements, food can be a supplement.  Kefir has trillions or billions or some insane amount of probiotices in just one tablespoon!  And the great thing about kefir is that those good bacteria colonize in the guy a feat that yogurt bacteria and lots of (any?) supps can't match.  I'm somewhere in the middle of the controversy  ;D :P, but am still learning! 
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Offline Whiterock

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2010, 09:45:37 AM »
Yes, I think people tend to think of GAPS as being just like any other elimination diet, but it's not. I believe, in GAPS, allergens / reactive foods are removed just to alow the gut to calm down while the rest of the protocol does the work of healing. To me, GAPS is more about EATING to heal, than about NOT EATING to avoid a reaction. GFCF and so on, seems to me, to just be trying to avoid allergens for long enough that maybe the gut will stop being so sensitive that maybe you can eat it without getting too sick every once in a while. Although I do understand that that may be the result, for some allergies, even with GAPS. But I feel that GAPS does more in terms of *actively* healing, and increases the odds of a full recovery, better than GFCF or just eliminating the offending food.

Patti, have you done GAPS, or are you doing GAPS now? I thought you were doing an elimination diet with supplements specific to the viruses that y'all have found on tests. But you talked in the previous post, as though GAPS hadn't worked for you, or wasn't working for you, so maybe I've been misunderstanding what you're doing. Have you tried GAPS and it has failed to produce results in these areas (eggs, etc.) yet, or have you not tried GAPS? I'm confused.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 09:47:18 AM by Whiterock »
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2010, 05:30:45 PM »
Let the game's begin!   :P DS (2nd oldest) broke out in a rash over his chest and back but it is mostly concentrated on his back.  He has never had skin issues b4.  Two things come to mind.  We are doing lot of garlic and that could be an allergy (we are not eating any other foods in high amounts that I can think of that we wouldn't normally), so it could be an allergy.  Or, it could be a yeast reaction.  I have read about children who went on antifungals (prescription) and their child developed this type of rash as well. Hmmm. Tough call.  Need to think on that more. Thoughts?  Also, DS1 broke out in a we little rash on the back of his leg, but daddy did the coca pulse test on him (at home allergy test) with a tiny bit of milk the last few days in a row, so it may be related to that.  Will keep and eye on him and no more milk! The rest of us seem fine.  Less hunger today, but both hubby and I are feeling weak, but a little less so.  Could be die off, this happened last time we did an anti-candida diet.  We had a few days of feeling horrible actually, much worse than this with flu like symptoms and hubby almost threw up!  But after a few days we felt really good, soooo, we shall see in a few days.  ;D   We are enjoying the soups!  The boys know we are doing this to help heal and get healthy and they talk about being on the GAPS diet for years so matter of factly. I have know idea how long this will be, put I must have mentioned the possibility.  :) The kids have mentioned things just out of habit like DS1 asked me tonight if we could make yummy balls after dinner.  The only one who is having a hard time with the diet is DS3-my sickest child.  He likes the soups but he misses his bread.  We were at the store yesterday and each boy grabbed a bag or two in the store so we could leave the cart in the store and he asked if there was bread in the bags.  He was very sad to find out that there wasn't.  He also snuck DOG FOOD today and hid and was eating it, which I think is hilarious.  He is def. having sugar/carb withdrawls and like I said he is really my biggest concern healthwise. This is the kid that has pale skin, dark circles under his eyes, slow growth, tired a lot, he had runny stool till solid intro till we took him off allergens recently, but his poo is still not normal, I think. He still has undigested food in his diaper.  :(

Ordered kefir grains yesterday for dh to intro kefir in stage 2 (i think).

Made kraut today and it was ridiculously easy.  Can't believe it took me this long.  Shredded the cabbage in the food proccessor and it with salt in a bowl.  Kneaded it till enough juice developed then put it in a half gallon jar and put a whole cabbage leaf over top and put the lid on.  It's sitting in a cupboard right now and should be ready in 3-7 days depending on who you ask  ;).  I used this recipe from a GAPS blog but just did plain, but the curry kraut sounds yummy, too!  Can't wait to try it!

http://gapsguide.com/2009/11/10/fermented-veggie-recipes/

So this is what our GAPS day looks like:

wake: probiotic in 1 cup of room temp. water (only have dairy pb right now, need to get dairy free so only dh is taking it)

morning: soup consisting of broth, meat, veggies, garlic stirred into soup pot at end of cooking, and kraut juice stirred into  soup bowls (when it's ready)

snack: ginger tea with honey and we are supposed to be doing broth between meals, too.

noon: same as a.m.

snack: same as above

dinner: same as noon

I'm finding the soups to be really easy to prepare and believe it or not really simplifying my life quite a good deal, but I'm used to cooking from scratch and making broth, so that's probably a big advantage coming into GAPS.  

I found out some incredible things about ginger today!  So healing...there are various studies below that show amazing healing properties from very little consumption a day.  Amazing!  It provides gastrointestinal relief and has strong proven anti-inflmmatory effects among other big benefits .  This is from one of my favorite sites, The World's Healthiest Foods.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=72

Gonna go enjoy a cup of ginger tea with hubby right now!  :)

p.s. I still have the really, really relaxed feeling after meals!  It is really very noticeable.  Dh thinks its the  warm, soothing nature of the meal and I agree. I also know that you have lots and lots of nerves in the bowel so I can imagine that the broth is really soothing the intestinal tract which does effect the whole body. 

« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 05:45:22 PM by mommyjen »
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 12:43:58 AM »
We, perhaps, have problems Houston. Two things. I may be reacting to the bone broth because of a glutmamte intolerance. On the GAPS yahoo group a member stated:

Quote
A lot of us had reactions to the broth.. Tired wiped out feeling, racing heartetc. It could be glutamates or it could be just that it is incredibly healing..
because some of us ruled out glutamates and still reacted to the broth.

So I am wondering which I will be.  :-\  I will tell you that I feel absolutely, ridiculously wiped out after eating it. I found this comment online from a GAPS article.  Just a little something, but there wasn't much I could find.

Quote
I did a google search for glutamate (in bone broth) and GAPS and I arrived at this discussion.Glutamate requires methylation by glutathione...so wouldn't it be contraindicated in Autism and other disorders with impaired methylation at their core?I have been unwell since starting GAPS which is why I'm doing further research, especially when someone suggested a possible glutamate sensitivity.

Second, my mercury fillings are aching when I drink the broth. This has happened consitently at each meal.  I harldly did soups and hot drinks cause of they really stir up mercury from the fillings b4 GAPS, but now with the teeth ache, I am reminded of this and a bit concerned. I wonder why the ache with the broth and not a cup of tea.  Maybe it's there with the tea but less noticeable. I will pay attention next time.  Is there something in the broth that really messes with mercury or is it just bothering my metal fillings as in heating them up and the heat makes them uncomfortable.  Does the good of GAPS outweigh the possible mercury mobilization?  I am wondering now if the ear warmth/achiness more so now is more due to the mercury being released than the antifungals.  ::) :-\

Man, I'm messed up.  >:(  To messed up for GAPS????   ???

Don't know what I'm gonna do from here.  :-\
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 01:12:39 AM by mommyjen »
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Offline boysmama

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2010, 05:30:39 AM »
Just a few thoughts....

Why alot of garlic? We did garlic, but in very small amounts with each meal.


I also recommend that people ease into GAPS Intro. Eliminating grains/starches and going to broth directly really increases the herxheimer reaction and it's really hard to keep going. If this were myself I think I would try activated charcoal for a day or two and see if that changed any of the symptoms.

What you are describing are all things that we went through on a phase 1 diet which eliminated all sugars and starches (dissacharides). 

If it is too much, I'd encourage you to back off slightly....perhaps adding br. rice for a week or two...

Do you add any vinegar to your broths? Are you doing chicken? Beef? and are they grassfed/free range?

If the broth is a problem what foods are available to you? What would your diet look like?

Offline mykidsmom

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 05:59:01 AM »

Man, I'm messed up.  >:(  To messed up for GAPS????   ???

Don't know what I'm gonna do from here.  :-\

MJ - you have been wondering for a long time if your mercury fillings are an issue and I think you are clearly getting a picture that they are.  It may mean that each time you go to the dentist you have them do one or two teeth and get them out. 

Second, my husband is like you.  His body was/is so out of whack he could never have done GAPS.  As I've said before, I think it's a great concept, but it isn't going to work for everyone.  I think you do need to give it a few days and see if this continues.  If it does, it would be wise to re-evaluate.  Your next step would likely be a diet free of your food allergerns, sulfur, and glutamates.  Adding in nystatin, digestive enzymes and a STRONG probiotic.  This was the route we had to take for hubba and he has done a huge amount of healing in one year's time. 

So, if GAPS doesn't work for you, there are other options.  And on the garlic - you will become allergic to it if you use that much.  Because you already have a body having immune issues, you will not want to use too much of any one thing on a regular basis.  Try to rotate stuff every 4 days.  Also, try removing the garlic for a day or two just to see if that's what's causing the mercury issues in your mouth.  Because you have so much going on, you will have to eliminate one thing at a time in order to figure out if the issues is GAPS or what you're eating (as in, adding to the soups).

patti
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 08:58:23 AM »
Boysmama wrote:

Just a few thoughts....


Why alot of garlic? We did garlic, but in very small amounts with each meal.

GAPS intro recommends 1-2 Tb per "patient" in the soup for what I'm getting.  I'm doing probably about that for the whole pot of soup that feeds us all.  I think it may be a good idea to forgo the garlic altogether for a time and try a bit in the future to see how we react.

I also recommend that people ease into GAPS Intro. Eliminating grains/starches and going to broth directly really increases the herxheimer reaction and it's really hard to keep going. If this were myself I think I would try activated charcoal for a day or two and see if that changed any of the symptoms.

This is very good advice and what happened with our anti-candida diet!  I need to go pick some up today! With GAPS, I'm not feeling so bad that I can't keep pushing through those first few days/weeks.  Maybe because we were already of dairy and gluten things before and only eating honey as a sweetner occasionally.  Charcoal could help with the fatigue and possibly the broth reaction, but I'm not so sure about the filling pain.  The ear pain is concerning me, and I just don't know if it's antifungal or mercury related. So, I'm gonna nix the garlic and make sure my soups are luke warm before eating and see how my ear pain does.  That should alleviate my worries about the mercury mobilization,except *maybe* there is something in the broth, but we'll start with the other factors first.

What you are describing are all things that we went through on a phase 1 diet which eliminated all sugars and starches (dissacharides).  


Yes, I think the fatigue and hunger are normal...less hunger and fatigue today even! I am so, so glad to be of dissacharides. I am expecting some major healing just by eliminating them from our diet. The broth reaction very well could be normal, hubby has it to but not the the same degree that it is bothersome for him and honestly it's not a big deal/interfering with my functioning.  I could be a normal healing reaction to a very healing food that ppl get when they switch from SAD foods to whole foods. That could be all it is.  I am wondering if it's a glutamate thing for me, cause if I have issues I'd like to take care of them in hopes that my fibro/vestibulites may be healed.  I came across this Failsafe diet last night that elimintaes additives, salicylated, amines, and glutamates for a time and then systematically adds them back in.  The very interesting thing is the allow bone broth!!  BUT, they recommend that they are simmered for no more than two hours and cooled rapidly in cold water and then used for frozen immediately.  This reduces the glutamate content enough to be okay on the diet.  So stocks are in, just adjusted slightly!  I simmer my stock for 24 hours minimum.  ;D  Any everyone raves about them and asks for my secrets and it is a wonderful nourishing food, but for now I think I will do the above and reintroduce later according the the Failsafe outline.

What is the Failsafe Diet?
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/failsafe.aspx

The RPAH Elimination Diet (Failsafe)
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet.aspx

If it is too much, I'd encourage you to back off slightly....perhaps adding br. rice for a week or two...
This is  probably a good idea, though I really don't feel it is too much, but I really need to get ds especially of dissacharides so I am thinking we will stay the course.  If I did do modified version I would probably just do full GAPS and go back to the intro. later.

Do you add any vinegar to your broths? Are you doing chicken? Beef? and are they grassfed/free range?
No vinegar. We are doing chicken broth cause it is much, much less expesive than hm beef broth here.  The chickens are organic from Costco...the best quality we could find for now.  Our beef is grassfed.

If the broth is a problem what foods are available to you? What would your diet look like?


I'm thinking of doing a GAPS/Failsafe combo which is very liminting, but only until I can add other things in. Between the two, I could still to broth and kraut (cabbage is low enough in salcites!) I could do beef and chicken, lamb, and rabbit. (very particulary cooked/quality, etc.), I could do Ghee, green beans, eggs (prepared very, very carefully), garlic (small amounts, chives, leeks, parsley, coriander,  challots, for now or in the near future- passing through fist few stages.  Which would probably carry me through till I reintroduce according to Failsafe and discover any sensitivties.

Thanks so much boysmama for the trouble shooting.  Very, very helpful.

Patti, I've got to get of the computer (!), but will reply soon. Thank you for you're very insightful post!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 09:04:51 AM by mommyjen »
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Offline boysmama

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2010, 02:14:38 PM »
Mommyjen, just to let you know that most organic chicken is still fed soy. For us that was a problem in the worst times. Now we don't notice anything, but still do our meat, dairy and eggs soy free.


In putting all the pieces of your story together, I'm still thinking a herxheimer reaction. Even if you did candida cleanses before...more on that in a minute.
I'll look at the failsafe later on, sounds like it might be a good choice....

Salicylate allergies seem to be a "new" popular diagnosis. From secondhand observation limiting the diet to avoid salicylates resulted in ever declining health because balanced nutrition was gone. However, just getting on to a NT, high levels of "healthy" fats, cultured foods, and broths soon fixed the salicylate reactions.

If it is at all possible for you to get to a dentist suitable for doing the amalgam removals I think you would be pleased with the results.( you know the basic drill for safe removals)  I continued to have recurrent fungal overgrowth and dysbosis issues until I got the mercury out for good. Be prepared. That in itself will trigger herxheimer. It wasn't mercury toxicity symptoms, it was the worst yeast die-off symptoms I ever had. Activated charcoal is helpful. I was glad to see on another thread the Dramanov who Patti mentions frequently also prescribes it.

Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2010, 03:54:07 PM »
quote author=mykidsmom

MJ - you have been wondering for a long time if your mercury fillings are an issue and I think you are clearly getting a picture that they are.  It may mean that each time you go to the dentist you have them do one or two teeth and get them out.  

I am becoming more convinced of this as well. Thanks for pointing it out!  I need to do all the leg work and get costs, etc. and pick someone so that when the opportunity arises I can jump on it.  


Second, my husband is like you.  His body was/is so out of whack he could never have done GAPS.  As I've said before, I think it's a great concept, but it isn't going to work for everyone.  I think you do need to give it a few days and see if this continues.  If it does, it would be wise to re-evaluate.  

Yes, I'm gonna keep going with GAPS and see how I do the next few days with a few changes I mentioned above.  I have noticed a huge improvement in my digestion since on GAPS...like night and day, not perfect but much improved. And when we ate non-intro today (but still gaps) I got indigestion and yucky indigestion burps, my previous norm.  I ate just grilled chicken and zuchinni and skipped the grilled onions.  I have terrible digestion that even good enyzmes don't totally help with! So that is enough to convince me of GAPS right there.

Your next step would likely be a diet free of your food allergerns, sulfur, and glutamates.  Adding in nystatin, digestive enzymes and a STRONG probiotic.  This was the route we had to take for hubba and he has done a huge amount of healing in one year's time.So, if GAPS doesn't work for you, there are other options.  


I would love to be doing the pb and enzymes, but right now things are just so tight. If only money grew on trees.  :P   In a perfect world I would love to combine the above with GAPS and a strong pb is recommended from the very beginning as well as digestive enzymes.  If I did a deviation it would be full gaps or the standard carbohydrate diet or a combo to avoid dysacharides which I believe is important to healing and the body to being able to produce it's own enzymes, but avoiding food allergens. Honestly, I think I am just need to do some tweaking to fit my individual situation, rather thank GAPS not working.

And on the garlic - you will become allergic to it if you use that much.  Because you already have a body having immune issues, you will not want to use too much of any one thing on a regular basis.  Try to rotate stuff every 4 days.  Also, try removing the garlic for a day or two just to see if that's what's causing the mercury issues in your mouth.  

Oh thank you for this! This makes a lot of sense!

Because you have so much going on, you will have to eliminate one thing at a time in order to figure out if the issues is GAPS or what you're eating (as in, adding to the soups).

I'm gonna remove onion and garlic from the stock and other stuff that does not seem really, really safe right now.  Patti, can I as why you would think GAPS would be the issue?  I'm not sure I understand why eating meat and veggies and broth for a few days/weeks would be harmful?  I have read many, many benefits of these for healing even before I knew of GAPS.  And besides they are just food!

« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 10:55:50 AM by mommyjen »
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2010, 04:18:16 PM »
quote author=boysmama

Mommyjen, just to let you know that most organic chicken is still fed soy. For us that was a problem in the worst times. Now we don't notice anything, but still do our meat, dairy and eggs soy free.  What were your reaction if you remember? I have no other option for broth at this point.  :(  We have raised fryers before and plan do that for sure now regularly, but for now...maybe it would be best just to do grass fed beef and forget the broth?

In putting all the pieces of your story together, I'm still thinking a herxheimer reaction. Even if you did candida cleanses before...more on that in a minute.
I'll look at the failsafe later on, sounds like it might be a good choice....


You think the ear pain could be herxing?  What about the reaction to the broth/possibly glutimate? Others reacted for little while to the broth, but kept going cause they were pretty sure they were having a healing reaction and they got through it fine and for the better for it! Just not for sure where I am in all that, but preparing the broth diff. should help lots, though it may not be as full off the good stuff as well glutimate.  Tough call. The other stuff I'm not worried about and am pretty sure it is just herxing.

Salicylate allergies seem to be a "new" popular diagnosis. From secondhand observation limiting the diet to avoid salicylates resulted in ever declining health because balanced nutrition was gone. However, just getting on to a NT, high levels of "healthy" fats, cultured foods, and broths soon fixed the salicylate reactions.

I'm pretty good on fats every day and broth somewhat less so and cultured foods not so much before gaps.  I know there is room for imporvement in the protocol you described above.  I'm just not so sure I want to keep doing things I may be sensitive too.  I think I'd rather remove them and intro when I'm better so I can tell for sure that they are or aren't bothering me on the NT foods.  I so sick right now that I just don't have time on my side you know,?  My whole fam is suffering too from my poor health.  :'(  The FAILSAFE site I linked to mentioned that an unbalanced diet is a concern for many, but that really it is well rounded and from the looks of it and temperorary. The salycites list there seemed like one could eat very balanced if found to be allergic?  She did say that some people are afraid to eat things that they think might react to (not allergywise but food chemical sensitivity wise) just to be safe but that this could create dietary imbalances and is not necessary. Need to check into that more if I go that route.

If it is at all possible for you to get to a dentist suitable for doing the amalgam removals I think you would be pleased with the results.( you know the basic drill for safe removals)  I continued to have recurrent fungal overgrowth and dysbosis issues until I got the mercury out for good. Be prepared. That in itself will trigger herxheimer. It wasn't mercury toxicity symptoms, it was the worst yeast die-off symptoms I ever had. Activated charcoal is helpful. I was glad to see on another thread the Dramanov who Patti mentions frequently also prescribes it.

I'm really, really thinking mercury is an issue for me, too.  My heart is willing, but my wallet is weak, lol.  :D  But, God cares and he takes care of us, so we will just see what is ahead!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 04:47:19 PM by mommyjen »
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Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2010, 05:06:33 PM »
Okay, so DH and I decided add some nuts and other allowed full GAPS stuff (not intro diet) today cause we ran out of broth cause I was did way too much research yesterday/today and slacked and honestly we are giving ourselves some slack at first.  

Breakfast- leftover soup that I ate luke warm and only had slight teeth pain, nothing like previously, but I did still have the ear pain, flushing during and after soup.  It did have garlic and onion and onion and was full strength broth. The ginger tea is not hurting my fillings/teeth, so I think there is something in the broth reacting to my mercury filling.

Lunch- grilled chicken and zucchini.  I had the worst indigestion and yucky indigestion burps after this meal.  My digestion had been so good the last few days!
Yuck.

Then, hubby made a dissacharide free nut fudge: walnuts, sun butter, sunflower seeds, a few almonds, vaniila extract, dried coconut (no sugar from the HFS), honey, and cocoa powder.

It was good but just moments after my first bite I started getting tummy cramping. A few hours later I was sicker than I've ever been and that is no exaggeration.  Stomach cramping and horrible, violent loose stools. My hands and face were numb and hot.  I thought I was gonna throw up or faint or both.  I ate something toxic my body was trying to get rid of.  It wasn't the nuts or sunbutter cause I snacked on those earlier in the day with no prob and have been having honey in my ginger tea, so it must have been the coconut or vanilla or cocoa, not likely the sunflower seeds. I'm guessing the cocoa cause I have had minor tummy stuff with cocoa but nothing like this before.

Oh my.  Will be testing coconut and vanilla very carefully in the future when allowed on GAPS.  Yikes.  I'm drinking some ginger tea right now to help settle my tummy and didn't join everyone at the dinner table tonight.  :-X

I wonder why this happened on GAPS and not before?  Maybe I'm cleansing and my body is able to react better/cleared on foods that are troublesome?  I am glad to know how bad probably the cocoa is for me now, and looking back there were indications before.

Got to go make some more broth, but I'm not sure which way to cook it!  :P
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:24:26 PM by mommyjen »
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Offline boysmama

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2010, 06:39:30 PM »
Jen, If you react to something while on GAPS intro always take it out and wait to try it again. I'm pretty sure this is in the book... There may be a few cases where someone just reacts to everything, for example my friend who was very, very sick with diverticulitis and in horrible pain. Just clear bone broth in tiny sips until she started feeling better, then "meals" of broth, then a clear bone and veggie broth, then a few tbsp of the soft veggies, and a little (chicken) fat....I don't want to be boring...so etc, and etc.  ;D

Soy reactions were moodiness, face flushing, general aches and pains. The worst in my son with sensory issues. He would lie on the couch (fatigue?) and whine, cry, and pick a fight with any person who took him up on it...  You have to do what is possible at this point. I only pointed it out as another tidbit to keep in mind if broth continues to be a problem. I would never have believed the difference in how the animal's diet comes through the product until I saw for myself the difference in my child. I'm glad we found that, otherwise we might have gone down the allergen avoidance route for nothing as it wasn't chicken, eggs, or goat milk that was the problem. It was the components going into making that milk, etc. Homegrown even, I was just feeding a commercial pelleted feed.  :( However, you can make do with what you have!! Don't let what you can't do stop you from doing all you can.

I must be forgetting some things about GAPS intro and why we did what we did. For example, I didn't remember each patient was to have 1-2 tbsp of garlic. We did much less than that.
I DO remember doing the first broth with only bones, water and salt. Onions and celery were added one at a time to make sure we were cleared for each. I added one veggie every other day ( I think).  Remember noticing how much prettier soup looked with both peas AND carrots.  :D We didn't find any food we reacted to until we got up to nuts and such. She recommends peanuts at some point and 3 of us can't tolerate them to this day. We get cramps, diarrhea and all the other violent, fun symptoms that body reacts with.  ::)


Quote
You think the ear pain could be herxing?
Yes, definitely. Pain, drainage, the works. There were times I could not believe all the nasty stuff that drained out of some of my boys' and my ears. Almost like ear infections.  Dh took care of his own.   :D I don't really know about his.
I believe it has to do with lymph system overload and maybe even from the sinuses. Get some mild exercise in, warm baths with dead sea salt, baking soda, and or epsom salts as you think appropriate. Charcoal, etc. You might try garlic poultices on the glands right under the jaw and see if that relieves any pain.
Just as an example... I had terrible urinary pain. Almost like a UTI. I had some damage from UTI  both bacterial and fungal .... so not surprised that a herxheimer showed up there. It passed in a few days, and would show up briefly in detox cycles along with body odor,bad breath, and loose stools.  :P

Quote
What about the reaction to the broth/possibly glutimate
Not sure on this one. Could be. Best thing I can say is to try a different way of prepping the broth and leave out all seasonings except salt one time and see what happens. The main point right now is to put stuff into your body that will digest, nourish and repair that lining. "less" might be more in this case. At any rate I think you will see advancements. Well, I guess you already have to some extent, even in just a few days. Without having the resource of a natural doc to consult several times a week like they do with patients in your condition  you will have to do all the tweaking.  I'll just say it again. I'm praying for you and am sure others are as well.

Quote
I wonder why this happened on GAPS and not before?
One reason is the same as waiting 30 days and then challenge testing for allergens. Clear the body and you can make more accurate observations. The other is that herxheimer/ healing crisis the immune system is more alert under stress actually.  This can work for good, but as you found out, it's more sensitive.  :P

Quote
Lunch- grilled chicken and zucchini.  I had the worst indigestion and yucky indigestion burps after this meal.  My digestion had been so good the last few days!
Yuck.
Wow...yeah, dh was one of my worst. Same meats and veggies that were fine boiled or cooked soft and meats chopped fine, were terrible fried, roasted, or crisp steam. It's amazing the difference in cooking methods can make for digestion. And a person can almost forget what good digestion feels like. Dh had issues the other day after some food away from home and we were talking about how he used to have sinus congestion and horrible gas EVERY DAY and he never really thought twice about it.

I so hear you on wishing money grew on trees!  We also WANTED to do the supplements. We wanted to be able to follow GAPS better with lamb, fish, more variety in vegetables and the supplements... but  :P it wasn't possible. Dh did several months while we did a phase one diet (similar to Maker's Diet) because he's the wage earner and needed to feel better. This was before we "found"  GAPS. It helped, but nothing like GAPS did. Would GAPS at the beginning have done as well? I don't know. I do think intro went so smoothly because we had a ton of detox and maybe a little healing because of getting, as you say- dissacharide free.
Our ship never came in to this day :D, and I would describe us as "practically" well. We still have a few food intolerances (oats and peanuts) as well as reactions to non-food items such as soy isolates, additives, preservatives. Even our recent reintroduction of wheat is going very, very well, and even a little cow's milk on occasion without issue. Even in the form of store bought ice cream.  :o
We even eat small amounts of ketchup now, much to my boys' delight.  ;D I make it, but found an organic, cornsyrup free one recently that I could buy in a pinch.
I want to offer you HOPE. YOU can get well. I know you are asking God for wisdom. Bask in that hope and confidence. Part of healing is in the mind and the good hormones that are triggered from a resting from stress and worry. Not spoken as an achiever, but it's my goal.  :-*

So if anyone made it to the end of this...blessings to you and yours.  :)

Offline boysmama

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 06:41:22 PM »
Quote
Made kraut today and it was ridiculously easy.  Can't believe it took me this long.  Shredded the cabbage in the food proccessor and it with salt in a bowl.  Kneaded it till enough juice developed then put it in a half gallon jar and put a whole cabbage leaf over top and put the lid on.  It's sitting in a cupboard right now and should be ready in 3-7 days depending on who you ask  Wink.  I used this recipe from a GAPS blog but just did plain, but the curry kraut sounds yummy, too!  Can't wait to try it!
I had run out and made some more on Monday. It is easy.  ;D Roll call... who has made their kraut?

Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet- Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2010, 07:30:58 AM »
I have some GAPS diet praises! First, dh mention this morning that his b.o. was much decreased and asked me about mine.  I have to say that I have really bad b.o. and even within hours of showering it returns.  I had just the slightest smell that was just natural smelling and not bad dh said (I had him check since I can't smell but strong smells), but he said it was totally fine!  I hadn't showered since yesterday morning!  Dh also says his breath is better.  I smelled but he had just brushed his teeth so what I smelled was minty.  I told him the real test will come later in the day, lol.  So, I'm not sure why except that I know food just sitting there in the GI that is getting fermented rather than digested contributes to bad breath as well as microbes feeding off starches. I have no idea about the b.o. really, but my guess would be that the above two factors affect the whole body system wide.

I ate breakfast this morning and had no indigestion, bloating, or gas, too.  I still am weak, but not sure how much weaker than when I started GAPS.  I came into this thing very sick and needing to sleep in late, nap, and go to bed early.  But I do suspect some withdrawl like symptoms from startches and especially the bacteria/yeast whatever that are being robbed of their food source. I forgot to ask dh how he is doing before he left this morn. as he was weak the first few days.

My Breaking the Vicious Cycle book says: When implementing the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, it is important to remember that during the first week to ten days, profoiund changes are occuring in the digestive tract: the hundres of different families of microrganisms are changing their metablolic functions due to the lack of nutrients to which they have been accustomed and of which they are now deprived.  Som children may do well even during the fist week. But others will go through a period of adjustment which some refer to as "detoxification".

So there's some progress and we aren't even through the first week! Looking forward to my GAPS books getting here, but in the meantime I'm enjoying Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Elain Gottschall.  It's basically a dissacharide free diet that has healed many people to the point that they can eventually eat grains, etc. again. Lima beans, navy beans, lentils, split peas, nuts and honey are all allowed as well as fermented dairy, various cheeses and such.Lot's of great information and really good recipes! I'm not totally sue what the diff. is between GAPS and BTVC (or the Standard Carbohydrate Diet).  My guess is that GAPS in more proactive in healing the gut?  

Boysmama~ I was so very encouraged by your post.  It means a lot that you are praying for me  and thank you for taking the time to share those jewels of wisdom!  

About GAPS- It is really tough telling if my reactions are die off or allergic.  I did not test allergic to anything I am eating right now, but there is still the possibility, but it is worth figuring it out in the long run I believe. About what the animals are fed-I'm gonna do some major looking around locally to find out whats available grass fed or soy/corn free at least.I have found grass fed beef.  If I could find eggs (to test) and chickens that would be great. We bought our eggs from a neighbor b4 the allergy tests and he corn fed them free choice, but the free ranged all day as well.  DH at least want me to be eating this stuff.  We do have plans to butcher our own and get our own hens again, but in the meantime I need to do some detective work and find out what's available.  If I can do pure grassfed for at least a month? then I will have a better base for how the Costco chickens might affect me.  That is so interesting about your ear/nose stuff! No goop yet here.  :D  I hope we do GAPS well enough to detoxification like that if we need to!



« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 10:55:05 AM by mommyjen »
Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.


Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2010, 09:53:49 AM »
I am so encouraged doing GAPS! My skin looks beautiful!  I've never had acne really but the color is so good and it seems my pores look smaller or something. It's hard to put my finger on, but I feel so pretty!  How neat!
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Offline mykidsmom

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2010, 12:06:48 PM »
I am so encouraged doing GAPS! My skin looks beautiful!  I've never had acne really but the color is so good and it seems my pores look smaller or something. It's hard to put my finger on, but I feel so pretty!  How neat!

YAY!!!  Keep at it, Jen.  You will experience so much healing. 
For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day.

Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2010, 07:21:51 PM »
Thanks so much for the sweet encouragement Patti!

I wanted to mention that DH and ate at the hospital (getting some labs done) last night and I got so sick from the food.  :-X  I basically had nachos without the cheese or sour cream, just ground meat, pinto beans, avacado, tomatoes, jalapeno, lettuce and salsa and I cheated with the corn chips.  Dh made sure to ask if there was any gluten or casein in the taco meat seasoing. There must have been something in there that was a chemical or allergy because I was so sick and since that is really the only thing I ate that day, it must have been it.  Things like this never happened to me before and it just seems like body is doing a really good job of reacting to toxins after having such nourishing and good foods.

We are doing more full GAPS at the moment fora few reasons but are making sure to do soups or a cup of bone broth with every meal and know that my kraut is ready we will be adding that with each meal too. As soon as possible, I'd like to get back to the intro diet, but it's working for us right now to just be flexible.  BTW, the kraut is so good!  Everyone liked it here.

I did get my books yesterday and am looking forward to reading them.  Night all!
Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.


Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2010, 11:25:43 AM »
Here we go again...round 2!  I'm using the web at the library so don't know how often I'll get to share. Day 4 of the intro. Will be back!
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Offline purewellspring

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2010, 02:52:21 AM »
I don't know if anyone's still doing this, but we've just started the Intro...we're at day 4. And I have a question. How in the world do I know when we can move on to each stage? Right now it's just my two year old and myself, and we've pretty much just stuck to soup (although my beef based soup yesterday was more like a stew and probably too heavy). My two year old is so obviously experiencing die-off it's not even funny. Sleeping a ton, but waking more during the night, really fussy, runny nose...and she only had one probiotic pill (PB8) a couple of nights ago. I wasn't thinking, and just gave her one after one day of the diet, since we've been taking them and noticing nothing. :)

I'm just so uncertain about how to proceed with the Intro part...any advice would be appreciated! And, egg yolks are something she reacted to back when I started her on solids (so over a year ago), and she hasn't had any egg since. She didn't have any reaction when I did a skin test on her the other night, but I'm obviously nervous. If I don't start eggs for a few more days, should I keep her on stage one, or move on to stage two, just minus the eggs??

TIA!

Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2010, 11:29:47 AM »
I don't know if anyone's still doing this, but we've just started the Intro...we're at day 4. And I have a question. How in the world do I know when we can move on to each stage? Right now it's just my two year old and myself, and we've pretty much just stuck to soup (although my beef based soup yesterday was more like a stew and probably too heavy). My two year old is so obviously experiencing die-off it's not even funny. Sleeping a ton, but waking more during the night, really fussy, runny nose...and she only had one probiotic pill (PB8) a couple of nights ago. I wasn't thinking, and just gave her one after one day of the diet, since we've been taking them and noticing nothing. :)

I'm just so uncertain about how to proceed with the Intro part...any advice would be appreciated! And, egg yolks are something she reacted to back when I started her on solids (so over a year ago), and she hasn't had any egg since. She didn't have any reaction when I did a skin test on her the other night, but I'm obviously nervous. If I don't start eggs for a few more days, should I keep her on stage one, or move on to stage two, just minus the eggs??

TIA!

I think you move on the next stage once the diahreah (sp?) if any has stopped, but I wouldnt' go on to stage 2 until you've started the pb AND the any diahreah (HA, I know I'm spelling that ;wroing has stopped. Start the pb after the initial die off has passed and start with just a bit and go up over time if necessary. YTry to keeep her on stage 1 until you introduce eggs. If you notice a reaction then it gets a bit fuzzy about what to do. I'll have to check for you!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 11:37:27 AM by mommyjen »
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Offline purewellspring

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2010, 01:17:02 PM »
Thanks mommyjen! Is it possible to do this without the BioKult? DH is very VERY iffy on doing this at all, and the cost of an expensive probiotic is a hold out for him. We're on water kefir and sauerkraut (juice, although the first day I forgot and gave us both the real thing...oops!)...is it possible to do that and still move on? Financially I just don't know if I'll be able to swing an expensive supplement right now, but I can at least do the diet part! Or is it best to spend the money now, buy one bottle and take it while doing the intro, then phase into just fermented foods as we get closer to/on the diet itself?

Offline mommyjen

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Re: GAPS Diet~ Daily Log for Encouragement
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2010, 05:54:42 AM »
My honest opinion is...I think it's a waste to go so low carb (intro) and get the microbes in a vulnerable condition and not introduce a pb to finish the job. I have done the intro. to GAPS with some die off symptoms but it wasn't until I did the diet plus pb that I started seeing dead bacteria in my stool.  :o Freaky and way too much info. Sorry! Also, I've done the pb without the low carb diet and the die off was noticeably less. Diet + pb is a great thing!

Can you at least give your dd a pb? At that age, they need so much less pb, so it's more cost effective. Here is good one that's not too much of an up front cost. I know Patti has recommended this one. I remember reading online that a mom gave this to her dc and saw dead bacterial in dc diaper (not that you can always see it and not that it's always there) so that was another testimony that makes me think it really helps!

http://www.iherb.com/Culturelle-Culturelle-Probiotic-30-Veggie-Caps/7797?at=0

« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 06:52:13 AM by mommyjen »
Billy's wife and mom to John, Charles, Gilbert, and Lewis.