Author Topic: Unnassisted home birth  (Read 84159 times)

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2007, 05:50:29 AM »
Explain that placenta is human flesh?  What else is would it be.....?

I don't  understand why that isn't obvious?  If it is not human flesh and blood....well, then what is it?


...how did you come to the conclusion that it is flesh...maybe that is a totally stupid question on my end and I'm missing something huge. You don't have to explain if you don't want to....I'm just missing something apparently?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 05:54:29 AM by JoyInHim »

Offline mommie

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2007, 06:02:36 AM »
well, you throw it away right? and you wouldn't throw your baby's flesh away or plant it under a tree or anything like that. I guess unless its living when you're pregnant and than dead afterwards. O.kay as long as its just obvious to you and theres not some medical thing I'm missing ... its just obvious to me its not flesh at all, but nutrients to nourish my baby, just like my breast milk. that's it...we are both entitled to our own opinion I just thought maybe I was missing some researched medical proven thing. thanks for your explanation.

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2007, 06:12:33 AM »
The following is my own opinion, as I've been repeatedly asked to explain.

We bury (not throw away) placentas after their purpose has been served - just as we bury our bodies after their purpose (on earth) has ended. 

God designed human milk to be consumed by a human baby.

Your placenta contains your flesh and blood.  If you've ever seen a placenta (I have, often), they are full of blood. 

They are designed to purify blood that gets to the unborn child - one of mine had pockets of pus, from doing its job, and my midwife wondered if I had taken up smoking, as she was baffled knowing my commitment to excellent nutrition and exercise.  Would it be wise medically to consume that?  Of course not - but morally I have an even bigger issue.

By the way, we have never consumed liver, kidney or other organ meats for this reason as well (scientifically) - those organs are designed to clean the blood - we do not think it wise to eat what has been cleaned out of an animal its entire life.  I realize others disagree - but we don't eat organ meats or blood products.  (Whole 'nother thread - kosher butchering.)

I think the theory that a mother may die if she refuses to consume her own placenta is not at all likely (especially in a natural birth where nobody is messing with the mom!).....but if a mother ever gave birth on a remote island alone, and had no other way to save herself other than a bite of her placenta....I'm sure God wouldn't mind! 

If we are forbidden to eat animal blood (Paul - Acts, and 'the life is in the blood' includes the life of disease), I can hardly imagine human blood is an acceptable food source.

Our bodies should be treated as God instructs, and respected as His temple, in my opinion.  I see no indication in scripture where we are to eat any body parts of any humans or our own bodies.

 ;D   Just how I view this  -  Placentas are intended to grow your baby inutero, NOT to be consumed.



Chrissy Joy-  I am not 100 % sure about the placenta thing, but I read on the MotheringDotcommune forums that one mom put it that wasn't it like any other by product of her body like breastmilk, ect?  It isn't "a being" it is just a organ.  I'm having mixed feelings.  At first I thought it was fine, then Im not sure?

Any input would be appriciated!!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 06:17:06 AM by JoyInHim »

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2007, 06:22:22 AM »
A placenta is nothing other than flesh - it isn't milk, it isn't bone, it isn't your baby, rock or metal - it's your own flesh.  Created to nourish your baby for 9 months, yes. 

But it was not created to nourish the woman that just expelled it. 

Would you drink your own breast milk as an adult....?

Wouldn't that strike you a bit odd, since it was designed for your baby, not for an adult?

... its just obvious to me its not flesh at all, but nutrients to nourish my baby, just like my breast milk.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 06:25:24 AM by JoyInHim »

Offline herbs girl

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2007, 07:35:44 AM »
Thank you for stating your opinion, JoyinHim.  I am not one like to encourage arguing or hard feelings on forums, but I think its fine that we all ARE ENTITLED TO OUR OWN OPINION!! :) 

I will have to say that you do have a very good point, and I am not 100% sure where I stand?  But after I think about it, its like, ewww, I actually am considering/thinking about consuming one of my own organs(so to speak)??

We live and learn. I have defenitly learned ALOT on welltellme!! ;D ;D



JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2007, 07:51:33 AM »
We hired the very best midwife available for four births....it was no where near this amount.  In fact, our insurance covered all in office calls for 3 of the four (and then decided they had made an error, which we offered to repay, and they declined.)

I agree with the comment that a good midwife will be very good as far as bedside manner.  Ours always offers the dad's full responsibility (full hands on) although most defer to her better-trained hands for the head delivery.  Experience -definitely - aids in the skills required to birth a large head without tearing.

We did it both ways, and my dh was as good as the midwife in delivering alone (our smallest head, though, cord around her neck)  - he had been well trained in her classes we took.

We had 4 perfect results at home.  Our hospital experience was called 'textbook' in my paperwork - but it definitely was not a perfect result, leaving both baby and me injured!!

Enjoy!

Now, I have had 4 "unassisted" homebirths. It did save us 20,000 dollars all told

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2007, 07:56:18 AM »
I agree Herbs Girl.  ;D

That is why I used "The following is my own opinion, as I've been repeatedly asked to explain," in my post.  Also, I stated my reasons for my -opinion- upon request - I was answering some specific posts which questioned my opinion.   ;)

(BTW - using bold is akin to yelling on a forum.   ;)    )

I am not one like to encourage arguing or hard feelings on forums, but I think its fine that we all ARE ENTITLED TO OUR OWN OPINION!!

Offline herbs girl

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2007, 08:37:46 AM »
Joy in Him-- Oh my!! I did not know bold letters was yelling.  Whoa!!  I guess I *am* learning alot on welltellme!!  Thanks for letting me know ;)



JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2007, 08:39:24 AM »
No worries Herbs girl!

 :D

Joy in Him-- Oh my!! I did not know bold letters was yelling.  Whoa!!  I guess I *am* learning alot on welltellme!!  Thanks for letting me know ;)

SagorFamily1611

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2007, 08:49:27 AM »
Yay! I am so glad someone started this thread! I have a question. I do a lot of reading, and before I was married it was a lot of novels (christian only) and I read in those, and other books that every time when your baby is born you have to take some mucus or blood or something out of the babie's nose and mouth. Now that I am reading WTM and I just bought Bradley's Husband Coached Birth, I am not so sure, and that is one thing that really bothers me about possibly having to have a home birth because we will be living so far out. I plan on buying as man y books as I can, and learning as much as I can from WTM while I can. So anyway, all that to ask, is there always mucus, or blodd or whatever it is up in the baby's cavities?

Offline KatieMac

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2007, 09:11:17 AM »
Yes, but all my midwife uses is a 99 cent booger sucker from Wal-mart or any drugstore...you know, the bulb syringe that looks like a light bulb with an elephants trunk? No big deal.

Offline AllinHisTime

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2007, 11:24:25 AM »
My midwives suggested using an adult bulb syringe instead of a baby one for homebirths.  It gets more out and you use less squeezes. If you squeeze too much, too many times, there is a chance you could collapse a lung.  That is why it is smarter to use the adult one.  They've tried the baby one's before and it got scary for them. 

So, I'd suggest using that :)
A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed...When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.-- Dresden James

Offline KatieMac

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2007, 12:01:25 PM »
Thanks for the tip!

SagorFamily1611

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2007, 01:41:44 PM »
Does it have to be done to every baby? I remember reading somewhere, here or in the Bradley book I canna remember, that the mucous had come out while the baby was still in the womb and was sliding down.

Offline StephTallent

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2007, 02:00:17 PM »
Yay! I am so glad someone started this thread! I have a question. I do a lot of reading, and before I was married it was a lot of novels (christian only) and I read in those, and other books that every time when your baby is born you have to take some mucus or blood or something out of the babie's nose and mouth. Now that I am reading WTM and I just bought Bradley's Husband Coached Birth, I am not so sure, and that is one thing that really bothers me about possibly having to have a home birth because we will be living so far out. I plan on buying as man y books as I can, and learning as much as I can from WTM while I can. So anyway, all that to ask, is there always mucus, or blodd or whatever it is up in the baby's cavities?

According to my midwife only occasionally is it necessary to "suction" the baby.  She said that it's actually better in most cases NOT to suction unless it is needed because it causes their gag reflex to kick in before they have learned their "breath, suck, swallow" sequence needed to help successfully nurse.  She always suctions if there is any evidence of meconium in the water, or if there are any breathing complications but other than that she recommends not suctioning.  Another interesting detail she mentioned is that the first time a baby inhales it takes four times the pressure that it will take for future breaths because the lungs have to be opened up.  This is why she likes to leave the cord intact until it stops pulsing to make sure the baby is oxygenated as much as possible until they get the hang of the whole breathing thing.   :)
Do not become so focused on where you are, and the destination you forget from whence you came. Concentrate not on what is to be attained so that you forget to extend encouragement, love and help to those behind.

SagorFamily1611

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2007, 02:40:49 PM »
Thanks!

Offline Whiterock

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2007, 04:03:02 PM »
I also want to add, there's a spot in the throat where there's a group of nerves that you do NOT want to hit if you do suction. They hit this spot while suctioning my daughter and her heart instantly stopped. Very scary. My baby suddenly went limp and I could see the panic in face of the nurse who was doing the suctioning. She called for a response team/crash cart/whatever it's called and started CPR. The CPR worked but they took her off to wait for a specialist to check her out. That's how I found out what had caused it. If you are not rough (they were pretty "aggressive" in the hospital) then it's not likely to happen, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

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Offline seeker

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #77 on: April 27, 2007, 04:05:30 PM »
According to my midwife only occasionally is it necessary to "suction" the baby.  She said that it's actually better in most cases NOT to suction unless it is needed because it causes their gag reflex to kick in before they have learned their "breath, suck, swallow" sequence needed to help successfully nurse.  She always suctions if there is any evidence of meconium in the water, or if there are any breathing complications but other than that she recommends not suctioning.  Another interesting detail she mentioned is that the first time a baby inhales it takes four times the pressure that it will take for future breaths because the lungs have to be opened up.  This is why she likes to leave the cord intact until it stops pulsing to make sure the baby is oxygenated as much as possible until they get the hang of the whole breathing thing.   :)

StephTallent, we are all wondering about you over on the Birth Announcements thread!  :)
No baby yet?

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2007, 02:53:36 AM »
I agree, and my midwife believed the same.

One thing she was very much opposed to was suctioning -before- the baby is delivered, especially in the case of merconium.  This is the routine (around here) when a baby is born and merconium is present - the baby is suctioned right when the head is born, but the body is still compressed in the birth canal.

Doing this can cause the baby to inhale some of the merconium, and cause major problems with breathing, lungs, etc.  She saw this happen routinely (still) in hospital births where suctioning upon delivery of the head, but not the body, is routine.

We did not suction our dd born unassisted - it took (what seemed like) most of a minute before she took a breath.  As instructed, we wrapped clean cloth around a finger and gently swabbed out her mouth.  Then we rubbed her all over gently to stimulate her.

Yay! I am so glad someone started this thread! I have a question. I do a lot of reading, and before I was married it was a lot of novels (christian only) and I read in those, and other books that every time when your baby is born you have to take some mucus or blood or something out of the babie's nose and mouth. Now that I am reading WTM and I just bought Bradley's Husband Coached Birth, I am not so sure, and that is one thing that really bothers me about possibly having to have a home birth because we will be living so far out. I plan on buying as man y books as I can, and learning as much as I can from WTM while I can. So anyway, all that to ask, is there always mucus, or blodd or whatever it is up in the baby's cavities?

According to my midwife only occasionally is it necessary to "suction" the baby.  She said that it's actually better in most cases NOT to suction unless it is needed because it causes their gag reflex to kick in before they have learned their "breath, suck, swallow" sequence needed to help successfully nurse.  She always suctions if there is any evidence of meconium in the water, or if there are any breathing complications but other than that she recommends not suctioning.  Another interesting detail she mentioned is that the first time a baby inhales it takes four times the pressure that it will take for future breaths because the lungs have to be opened up.  This is why she likes to leave the cord intact until it stops pulsing to make sure the baby is oxygenated as much as possible until they get the hang of the whole breathing thing.   :)

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2007, 02:57:42 AM »
Oh dear!  Good to know.  I cannot imagine how scared and angry you must have been watching your baby treated that way!  (And I always question, is that -necessary???-)    :o

I used to watch the birth channel often and was always impressed that those poor little ones are rather slung around like a sack of potatoes the first few minutes of life. 

I also remember being so angry that somebody got to dress my baby first, and not me!  My midwife knew about that and made sure that I was the one to dress my little ones after our herbal baths ; )   Of course by the 5th, I was happy to allow my oldest dd the privilege!

this is a wonderful thread full of good info for those birthing at home!

I also want to add, there's a spot in the throat where there's a group of nerves that you do NOT want to hit if you do suction. They hit this spot while suctioning my daughter and her heart instantly stopped. Very scary. My baby suddenly went limp and I could see the panic in face of the nurse who was doing the suctioning. She called for a response team/crash cart/whatever it's called and started CPR. The CPR worked but they took her off to wait for a specialist to check her out. That's how I found out what had caused it. If you are not rough (they were pretty "aggressive" in the hospital) then it's not likely to happen, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

WR

Offline dara

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2007, 04:10:53 AM »
It is sometimes nessesary to suction- I think you have to go by the specific situaltion. Two of our (homebirthed) babies didn't need it, but one was a little blue when he was born, and it was 24 hours before he spit up enough mucus to turn pink all the way. I was scared silly in the wee hours when he woke us up gagging and struggling to breathe. I was glad I had the little blue syringe! So yeah, depends on the baby...
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Offline herbs girl

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2007, 05:31:01 AM »
My husband is not excited about home birth.  I am considering that with our next baby, Lord willing we have more children.  I found a midwife that takes Badgercare, and will let me go into spontanious labor as long as baby and mom are ok.  (I have been induced 3 x--with all my children)  But my hubby is not excited.

With our first birth they induced me at 38 1/2 weeks and put way too much Cytotec in me way too close together.  The contractions came with hardly any let up, and of course I couldn't handle contractions like that---who can?   So I was desperate for releif, they gave me a cervical  block and said yes it was fine for baby.  Not so!! It was not fine for baby at all.  My son's heart rate dropped very low and was blue/purple when he came out, not hardly breathing at all.  They had to bag him, suction and try to get him to breathe right and oxygen into him for *30* minutes.
My husband is really scared because of this incident.  I have scince read that cervical blocks can cause baby's heart rate to drop and so can cytotec.  (Cytotec seems to be ok for me if administered in tiny doses and not very close together)

So what to do?  I realize we have a couple years probably before needing  to decide, I really don't think nagging about the homebirth thing is the answer...but I really think having a midwife to do things more natural, I would probably get along fine.  My other births were perfect or better than perfect--wonderful with no pain relief, no problems hardly at all.  I would much rather deal with natural birth pain,

I feel pretty sure that the cytotec, and the cervical block had something to do with my son's problem of breathing.  But what can I do to convince my husband that it would be ok with still staying in my place?



Offline Mrs. Visionary

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2007, 06:57:49 AM »
I would not try to convince him.I would simply present as much factual information as possible (the good and the risks of BOTH sides) and let him draw his own conclusion. He needs to be confident in his decision in order to be able to give you the support you will need during childbirth.
If I may be so bold, it sounds to me like you have some control issues (now how would I know about those? ::))
May I gently suggest that you trust that God instills in your husband the wisdom he needs to guide your family and make decisions. Also in CTBHHM it is suggested that we pray for wisdom for our husbands. I think that is good advice. :)
Respectfully, Heidi

Offline Whiterock

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2007, 07:17:04 AM »
My dh was not "thrilled" with the idea of homebirth either, so we decided to do everything as natural as possible but in the hospital. He was right to not want to stay at home. I had an emergency c-section because the contractions were so strong and the urge to push was not an urge but an uncontrollable reaction (I tried everything I could to control it, relax, "breath" through it) that I couldn't get enough oxygen to the baby.

I tried different positions, etc. but I still involuntarily doubled over and pushed like I was trying to rip my muscles apart. This would happen about six times with each contraction and I could not breathe while it was going on. I could hear the beep beep of the baby's heart rate go to almost nothing every time (it even momentarily stopped a few times). Dh was watching the baby's oxygen levels and would tell me "Breathe. Slow, deep, breaths, honey. The baby needs oxygen. Breathe." They put an oxygen mask on me but that only help a little.

My first labor was 18 hours of back labor while on pitocin, so know a little about labor pain, but after an hour of this with the baby still between 0 and 1 station (he would move down a little with each push and then move right back up as soon as it was over) I was at my limit.

I am very glad I hadn't nagged my dh into staying home.

WR
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Offline herbs girl

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2007, 08:42:23 AM »
Thanks ladies,

You never know what God may be trying to protect us from when we follow and trust Him to work through our husbands descisions for our good.  If I pushed the issue of homebirth and then something did go wrong, I would find it very hard to forgive myself :( 



Offline DHW

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2007, 05:21:35 PM »
A homeopathic was given to me after birthing at home for my 2nd child, when I was bleeding more than the midwife cared for, and it was rapid and effective (maybe 1 min. at most). 

JoyInHim, what was the homeopathic remedy your midwife used? 

Has anyone used cayenne extract or homeopathic witchhazel for excessive bleeding?

Offline mommie

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #86 on: April 28, 2007, 06:19:17 PM »
My 2nd birth we had a mid wife so she used pitocin...but with my 1st if I can remember that far back we had black and blue cohosh, angelica root and I thought there was another one. I'll try to find it, my girlfriend who was here told my hubby to give me a dropper ful of each and with all the drama all he heard was a drop of each and thank God because I was fine with just the drop of each and just gettting the drop of each down was quite a bit of work for me even after dealing with 33 hours of labor (you'd think ANYTHING would be easy after that. :)) I have heard of the cayenne...but we never tried it.

Offline papercraftr

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Re: Unnassisted home birth - our experience
« Reply #87 on: April 28, 2007, 09:49:06 PM »
  I have had three homebirths with a midwife.  I would like to know more about complications and how to avoid/deal with them successfully.  Do you have any info., books, websites that you could give me?

yes, other ways to prevent hemmorage are much more desirable... ;D

Hello,

I'm a mama of 10 children, birth history as follows:
  • #1-adopted
  • #2-assisted home birth
  • #3-assisted home birth
  • #4-assisted home birth
  • #5-assisted home birth
  • #6-planned assisted home birth -- ended up unassisted home birth (midwife came too late)
  • #7-planned hospital birth -- ended up unassisted home birth (ran out of time after water broke so stayed home)
  • #8-planned assisted home birth -- ended up in the hospital (I had pnuemonia and a colapsed lung, delivered baby Merry 10 weeks early) -- an AMAZING GOD story
  • #9-assisted home birth
  • #10-planned unnassisted home birth (the midwives were too NEW Agey in our area so Brian and I prayed about our options and sensed that we had grace to have an unassisted home birth this time)

All that to say, I've learned a few things along the way continue to learn.  Just a few things that stick out to me that has been helpful:

TO HELP REDUCE HEMMORAGING after birth:  I took vitamin K in pill form the last two months of pregnancy.  I was amazed at how little I bled after birth.  The only time it would bleed red is when I was doing too much running around after birth.

DRINK WATER:  It's the simplest thing to do, yet most folks tend to not drink enough.  When your blood cells are properly hydrated, then all the wonderful nutrients can circulate to you and your baby.  There's more room for baby inutero.  Baby swims in and ingests the amniotic fluid it swims in.  This is the same fluid that baby urinates in.  When you drink and urinate, the toxins in your body and in the uterus are more likely to be expelled.  The water in the uterus is refreshed.  During labor, the hospital likes to hook you up to an IV to make sure you are properly hydrated.  That's because your body works more efficiently when all the cells have enough water in them.   (Not just because it preps you for a c-section).

PREVENTING A TEAR:  We used a hot compress of hot water and coconut oil against the perinium when baby was crowning to prevent tears in the perinium area.

CORD AROUND THE NECK:  Know how to slip it off the shoulder or what your options are should the cord be around the baby's neck.  My midwife was able to show my husband what a 'stuck' cord felt like and when to cut.

TYING OFF THE CORD:  you can use anything clean.  With Meorah's birth #7, we hadn't planned to have her at home so we used kite string  ;D

RESOURCES
  • I learned natural childbirth through the Bradley Method.  It seemed more than just teaching me childbirth, it taught me good consumerism.  I was able to better asses what my needs were and to consider what options I had in relation to my goal:  Natural Childbirth w/healthy Mama & healthy baby.
  • Shonda Parker's website there's a chart for under $2 called, "When baby arrives before the midwife  http://www.birthsupplies.com/catalog/tearoff-sheet-39when-baby-arrives39-p-460.html.  It was a nice quick reference tool.

Our last baby, "Hope" was born beautifully and safely, unassisted.  It's not something we would just do.  I believe the woman's body is designed to birth babies beautifully.  However, I would recommend any couple pray about their options.  Keep in mind no amount of study will give you the reassurance and peace as knowing you're in His will.   :)

You can check out a pic of my 10 blessings here:  www.TheHomeGrownFamily.com

love,
Charity
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Brian, Charity
Jimella, Eden, Philip, David, Mark, Abigail,
Meorah, Merry, Titus & Hope CALLIS
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JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2007, 02:59:05 AM »
Pray for God's direction and keep reading.

It is so hard not to be 'brainwashed' by what we grow up in.  Most US babies are born in hospitals, but world wide, only 20% of them are.  So, consider that the vast majorities of babies are still birthed at home, safely.

Your story sounds similar to our first....and the more I read and shared with dh, the more we realized, we had been brainwashed (and frightened) into believing it was 'safest' in the hospital.  In fact, right after they pulled my baby from my exhausted, cut and drugged body, a nurse said, 'Thank GOD you were in the hospital.'  Now I realize, none of the problems would have occurred outside of the hospital - I only needed to be rescued from their botched interventions.

God WILL direct your husband and you together.  He may begin with you!  (He began with dh, in our situation.)  So keep seeking God's desire and will for your best (next) birth.  He is faithful.  God can move your husband's heart, and mind, through the information you expose him to (not force on him) and your prayers.

Not that I am biased about where to birth ;)
But what can I do to convince my husband that it would be ok with still staying in my place?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 03:08:04 AM by JoyInHim »

JoyInHim

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Re: Unnassisted home birth
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2007, 03:00:34 AM »
Charity - excellent!