Author Topic: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders  (Read 119215 times)

Offline Pennie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2006, 01:59:06 PM »
Anyway.  I have another question.  I was reading that all grains should be soaked because of the phytates.  Do you grain grinding ladies do anything about that?  I was a little confused in the book I read because it said grind and then soak.  ???  To me that would seem to equal mush?  Has anyone out there tried it?
Thanks!! 
Danna

Here is my recipe which includes "soaking" in an acidic medium to neutralize phytates.  I am copying it from my website.  I have a Magic Mill (Electrolux) Assistent 2000 DLX, which is basically a big stand mixer.  I have never made this by hand or in a bread machine, but it comes out wonderfully fluffy and light w/ my mixer.  It makes 2 large (8.5" x 4.5") loaves.  I have found the egg to be crucial; otherwise it falls half the time!  I used to add gluten and lecithin but then I left them out one time and couldn't tell a difference so I don't use them anymore.  That and I avoid soy now (lecithin).

Ingredients
5-6 cups freshly milled flour (hard red or hard white) (see Notes below)
1/3 cup olive oil
1 egg
1/3 cup honey
1 cup water
1 cup kefir (yogurt might work; never tried it)
1 scant tablespoon instant yeast
2 1/2 teaspoons sea salt

Instructions
In the DLX mixer, combine the water, kefir, olive oil, egg, honey, salt, and enough flour so the dough pulls away from the sides of the bowl (everything EXCEPT the yeast).
Mix well, cover, and allow to sit in a warm place for at least 7 hours.
Add the yeast and let the mixer knead the dough for 10-12 minutes.
Divide dough in half. On a lightly oiled surface, roll each half into a rectangle and then roll up, pinwheel style, along the shorter edge. Pinch along the seam to seal.
Place each loaf seam-side down in a large (1.5-2 lb.) loaf pan that has been greased with butter or olive oil on the bottom and sides. Or you can skip the oil and just line the loaf pan with sheets of parchment paper.
Let loaves rise in a warm place until the tops are 1-2 inches above the pan, about an hour or longer.
Bake in a preheated oven at 350 degrees for 28-30 minutes. Be careful not to bang the pans while putting them in the oven or the loaves may fall.  Or, 25 minutes @ 325 degrees in a convection oven.
When they are done, take them out of the pans immediately to avoid soggy sides. You can use a spatula to loosen each side of the loaf from the pan, and they usually slide right out. If you use the parchment paper it comes out very easily.
Place on a cooling rack and cover with a dish towel while they cool. The towel helps keep the crust from getting too hard/thick.
When slightly cooled (about 20 minutes), place each loaf in a plastic bag. This helps retain softness and moisture.
If you wish to freeze the loaves, put them in the freezer immediately after placing them in the bags. When ready to use them, allow to thaw on the counter, not the microwave. This will only take a couple of hours, and they will still be moist and light.

Notes
You may have to use a little more than 5 cups of flour. You don't want wet dough, but you don't want it dry as a bone, either.
To make the honey slide out of the measuring cup easily, measure the oil first and then the honey (using the same measuring cup).
You want to let the dough sit for at least 7 hours but not much more than 12 hours else the end result will be sour. If you like sourdough bread, let it go longer.
If you add the yeast with the other ingredients, the bread will taste yeasty and nasty!

can someone tell me if instant yeast is different than yeast?  I was going to try this recipe but my yeast doesn't say instant yeast it says active dry.  Will this work? Does anyone know?  thanks.  oh, and do you add the rest of the flour when you add the yeast or has the flour all been added the night b/f?  I am a little confused on that. 

Offline 4myhoonie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2006, 04:59:34 PM »
instant is a quick rise yeast.  you can get SAF which for me has been really inexpensive.  or get the stuff at the grocery that is sold as "bread machine yeast". it is a lot more expensive and so are the packets. 

sometimes i add more flour after the soaking, if when i mix it, it starts sticking to the bowl.  i add until it doesn't stick.  very slowly so i don't overdo it. 

HTH!   :D
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Offline Mama_KK

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2006, 04:25:04 AM »
Hope I'm doing this right?!  I've read through this thread and am feeling a little overwhelmed - thought I was doing good buying a bread machine and getting the store bought fluff out of our home.  Started off making whole wheat/unbleached white loaves but DH and I where not happy w/ the taste - very overpowering, we couldn't put enough butter, jam, meat, etc. on slices.  So we are currently making all white w/ unbleached flour, raw sugar, lecithin & nutritional yeast - justifying that it's got to be better then anything we'd buy at the store.  But even this bread isn't something I look forward to - so maybe it's my machine?  Everything comes out so dense - even when I was adding wheat gluten (although I read something earlier & may not have been adding enough).

As far as the wheat grinder goes I feel that's down the road for us.  We do live in a rural area & I already have a source for berries but I'm overwhelming DH - just bought the bread machine and a yogurt maker this summer $$$ plus we're running out of room to strore all this stuff!

Some other quick ?s which you may reply to me personally by e-mail (doens't purtain to current subject matter).  Is Nurioushing Traditions a book and who's the author?  Where can I find the "recommended readings" section of WellTellMe?

Thank you so much ladies - your responses will be greatly appriciated!!!

Offline amazonmama2five

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2006, 05:36:28 AM »
Mama_KK,
YES, Nourishing Traditions is a very informative cookbook, but OH SO MUCH MORE!  It could be a textbook for a nutritional class.  It is written by Sally Fallon and published by New Trends Publishing.  You can usually find it on half.com for cheaper than you would in a store.

Here is the link to Recommended Reading - Fiction
Recommeded Reading - Non Fiction

Have a GREAT day!
Lisa
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 06:03:09 AM by amazonmama2five »
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Offline chopchop

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2006, 05:44:15 AM »
There truly is an art to breadmaking! :o  Do you know anybody who makes good homemade bread?  If you do that is the best place to start, because they can show you how they do it.  I have had fabulous homemade bread to absolutely disgusting homemade bread.  ::) So...........

Here are a few tips that may help
   *  Adding too much flour will make your bread dry.  Ideally it should be almost to "sticky" to handle.  If you have a bread machine that is great because you can use less flour and not have the problem of it sticking to you when you are trying to knead it.  If you are kneading by hand, try using a little oil to help it not stick to you.  Make sure that it is kneaded very well.
    *  Bread dough needs time for the gluten to work properly to make a nice soft dough.  I like to let mine rise once, punch it down and let it rise again, then form into loaves and let it rise once more before baking.  Sounds like a lot of work, but it isn't hard because it just sits on the counter and doesn't need a lot of attention.
   *  Most bread machines that bake it too will not do well with healthy versions of bread.  You can still successfully use it to mix and knead, then form your own loaves and bake.
   *  I also add lecithin granules (avail. from health food stores) this improves the texture also.  When I bake bread I make five loaves and use 4 Tbl. lecithin in my batch.
   *  Types of flour yield different types of bread.  We like the hard white wheat rather than the red because the flavour is milder and the bread a prettier color.

I don't know if any of this helped at all........I hope it did. 8)
PM me if you wish for my personal recipe, or experiment with your own.  Have fun learning! :)

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2006, 05:59:33 AM »
Lecithin is an emulsifier.  If this is good for bread texture, then egg whites should work as a good substitute.  Lecithin is most commonly derived from soy as well, read your labels.  ;)
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Offline T

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2006, 07:16:14 AM »
I've been looking back through this trying to figure out where someone recomended whole wheat pastry flour and can't find it for the life of me!  So I'll ask all of you...Can we use this ready made pastry flour to make pasta?  My Italian family won't be able to do any of this 'get off white flour' thing if we can't have pasta!  It is our 'peanut butter and jelly' in life!

Offline Pennie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2006, 07:25:04 AM »
I'm not sure if this will answer your question. I don't know if pastry flour is different, but I grind the golden whole wheat and make pasta with it and it works really well.  I even made crust for my chicken pot pies with it and it was really good.

Offline T

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2006, 07:40:36 AM »
Whomever it was that mentioned it said I wouldn't know that it wasn't white flour.  I'm guessing it's more finely ground.  We didn't like the taste of bought whole wheat pasta at all.  It was so heavy.  That makes me reluctant to try to make my own out of whole wheat flour.  I can't invest in a grinder right now.  We have to make a transition to healthy grains before I can justify that.  One more appliance hanging out in the cabinet or on the counter unused would put my husband and I over the edge.  Seems eveyone wants to give you the latest usless gadget for Christmas...not saying it's not useful...but it isn't if you don't use it! 

Offline mommyoftwins

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2006, 07:51:30 AM »
I was wondering, do any of you ladies have an opinion about the kitchen aid grain grinder attachment?

I have a friend who used hers all the time.  Finally got a magic mill, I think it was, just to be able to grind more at a time, but she said it worked great.  In fact I was going to buy it from her, b/c I got a Kitchen Aid but then I realized my Vita Mix DOES work to grind grain, so I don't need to buy anything else! 

I have a Vita-Mix, also, but couldn't find anything in the manual about grinding grain. Maybe because it's a different model than what I see advertised? It is a Turboblend 4500. It would be nice to be able to use this instead of getting the mill I have been thinking about. How much can you grind at a time?

I am trying to decide what I really need to have. I have a bread machine, but I only like it for the kneeding part. I also have an Oster stand mixer with dough hooks, though I have never tried it for bread. Are all of these things sufficient for whole grain bread-making, or should I try to invest in the Nutrimill & Bosch Universal?

Offline mommyoftwins

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2006, 09:16:12 AM »
*bump*

Offline mommyoftwins

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2006, 08:40:36 AM »
I was wondering, do any of you ladies have an opinion about the kitchen aid grain grinder attachment?

I have a friend who used hers all the time.  Finally got a magic mill, I think it was, just to be able to grind more at a time, but she said it worked great.  In fact I was going to buy it from her, b/c I got a Kitchen Aid but then I realized my Vita Mix DOES work to grind grain, so I don't need to buy anything else! 

I have a Vita-Mix, also, but couldn't find anything in the manual about grinding grain. Maybe because it's a different model than what I see advertised? It is a Turboblend 4500. It would be nice to be able to use this instead of getting the mill I have been thinking about. How much can you grind at a time?

I am trying to decide what I really need to have. I have a bread machine, but I only like it for the kneeding part. I also have an Oster stand mixer with dough hooks, though I have never tried it for bread. Are all of these things sufficient for whole grain bread-making, or should I try to invest in the Nutrimill & Bosch Universal?

Offline SarahK

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2006, 09:05:55 AM »
When I started making my own bread - I used the bread machine for all my mixing & kneading and than shaped the loaves and baked them in the oven.  It's a fine way to do it.  I have 11 at the dinner table now - so it has become more practical for me to use a Bosch Universal Kitchen machine and do 3 loaves at a time.

I like my Nutramill grinder.  I also have a Family Grain mill and used it for all my first loaves.  It was harder to learn on because it never ground as fine as the stuff I had started using from the store so I felt like I had to learn all over again.  You may find the nutramill the best way to get flour like you are expecting. 

Both of these are bigger $$ investments.  You may have luck finding them as an ebay or other used source.  Don't know - I ended up getting new.

Sarah K
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Offline mommyoftwins

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2006, 03:25:05 PM »
When I started making my own bread - I used the bread machine for all my mixing & kneading and than shaped the loaves and baked them in the oven.  It's a fine way to do it.  I have 11 at the dinner table now - so it has become more practical for me to use a Bosch Universal Kitchen machine and do 3 loaves at a time.

I like my Nutramill grinder.  I also have a Family Grain mill and used it for all my first loaves.  It was harder to learn on because it never ground as fine as the stuff I had started using from the store so I felt like I had to learn all over again.  You may find the nutramill the best way to get flour like you are expecting. 

Sarah K

Did your machine handle whole grains well? Is the Nutrimill much better than the Kitchen Mill or Wonder Mill? I don't know which one to go with. Right now, I only have a family of 4, and I don't see it getting much bigger in the near future.

Offline SarahK

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2006, 04:00:48 PM »

Did your machine handle whole grains well? Is the Nutrimill much better than the Kitchen Mill or Wonder Mill? I don't know which one to go with. Right now, I only have a family of 4, and I don't see it getting much bigger in the near future.

In my first 5 years of grinding & baking with a bread machine - it did fine.  Even with my coarser flour from my Family Mill.  But after 5 years of grinding/baking, we had more than 5 kids making us 7 at the table.  And I was trading bread for eggs with a neighbor.  My bread machine couldn't keep up & I burnt out 2 motors.  I think the motors died because of near small business use and not just the 'home use' it was designed for.

My first mill after the Family mill was the Whisper Mill.  They don't make these anymore.  I liked it but eventually burnt it out too (we were up to 10 at the table then).  I make 9 loaves on the day I bake and sometimes I bake 2x a week.  The Nutramill was recommended to me by a dear friend who's opinion I trust and who I knew would give me straight answers on reliablilty, quality, etc.  She loved her Nutramill & so we decided that would be our choice for replacement.

I purchase things like this with the intent to allow for a little bit more than I really need to have in a machine -but not a lot more than I need.  At our stage, I use these 2 machines (Bosch & Nutramill) a ton.  Eventally, I would like to get a gallon of flour from my daughter/daughter in law and make a little loaf in a bread machine that The Man & I can nibble on and eventually throw out cuz it's just us and we can't eat that much.

Sarah K
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Nickole

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2006, 05:30:32 PM »
I was wondering, do any of you ladies have an opinion about the kitchen aid grain grinder attachment?

I have a friend who used hers all the time.  Finally got a magic mill, I think it was, just to be able to grind more at a time, but she said it worked great.  In fact I was going to buy it from her, b/c I got a Kitchen Aid but then I realized my Vita Mix DOES work to grind grain, so I don't need to buy anything else! 

I have a Vita-Mix, also, but couldn't find anything in the manual about grinding grain. Maybe because it's a different model than what I see advertised? It is a Turboblend 4500. It would be nice to be able to use this instead of getting the mill I have been thinking about. How much can you grind at a time?

I am trying to decide what I really need to have. I have a bread machine, but I only like it for the kneeding part. I also have an Oster stand mixer with dough hooks, though I have never tried it for bread. Are all of these things sufficient for whole grain bread-making, or should I try to invest in the Nutrimill & Bosch Universal?

My Vitamix manual says 2 cups at a time.  So that's what I do.  I have a 3600 model.  my breadman ultimate bread machine could NOT handle kneading freshly ground dough, which friends had warned me about, so I got a Kitchenaid mixer.  Everyone I have talked to uses a mixer to knead b/c bread machines can't handle it. 

Offline healthyinOhio

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2006, 05:45:46 PM »
Okay, I am looking into buying a grain mill, but cannot afford some of the ones everyone is recommending.  What about these cheap ones on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/GRINDERS-KITCHEN-SPICE-WHEAT-FLOUR-GRAIN-GRINDER-MILL_W0QQitemZ320047642395QQihZ011QQcategoryZ20651QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Nickole

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2006, 05:53:18 PM »
Okay, I am looking into buying a grain mill, but cannot afford some of the ones everyone is recommending.  What about these cheap ones on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/GRINDERS-KITCHEN-SPICE-WHEAT-FLOUR-GRAIN-GRINDER-MILL_W0QQitemZ320047642395QQihZ011QQcategoryZ20651QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



If your biceps are like baseballs!   :o  You can get a cheap manual but no one I know has one and all have said wait wait wait till you can afford an electric.  As much as you will want to grind, it will get very old, very tiring, manually grinding and from what I have heard, it is not easy to do nor for a child either so you couldn't have any help there.  I cannot imagine manually grinding my own grain.  That said, maybe your hubby can grind your weekly allotment of grain for you?  I think I would wait to buy an electric one. 

   

Offline healthyinOhio

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2006, 05:58:01 PM »
  I think I would wait to buy an electric one. 

   

Ho-hum.  :(

Offline amazonmama2five

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2006, 03:29:08 AM »
Hey Gals!
I have an old fashioned, HEAVY, hand grinder.  I mostly grind herbs and seeds.  I am going to try wheat this next week, I will let you know how it goes..............
HealthyinOhio, I will say this, it is VERY GOOD for your waistline!  When I do fenugreek seeds or something similar I can feel it as if I did an aerobic workout!  If manual grinders are cheap or you can get one used, I'd say go for it.  You can always sell it if you don't like it.
Just my .02 for today ;)
Lisa
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Offline healthyinOhio

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2006, 03:31:35 AM »

HealthyinOhio, I will say this, it is VERY GOOD for your waistline! 

Yah, I could stand to loose a few inches there.  I suppose if amazonmama can do it then maybe I can.  I will keep it in mind, thank you.  ;)

Offline boysmama

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #81 on: November 11, 2006, 07:30:26 AM »
I've got a manual grinder and still use it for nut butters,etc. because it came with a set of stainless steel burs and is washable. It IS a great workout. ;D I just didn't have the time or energy to grind all the wheat (plus other stuff) that we use. The other consideration is that the manual grinders do not grind as fine, so it is harder to get the bread to turn out perfect.
There is a very good hand-powered grinder (forget the name right now). It is somehow geared so that it turns easily. It also grinds very fine flour. Problem is that it costs 3x what I paid for my electric grinder.

Offline Amey

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2007, 06:05:59 AM »
I'm currently looking into buying a grain mill. Does anyone have any experience with the Retsel or the Jupiter mills? They are both stone mills. I have read that Sally Fallon recommends the Jupiter and Sue Gregg recommends the Retsel. Any thoughts?

Offline boysmama

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2007, 06:20:22 AM »
I'm currently looking into buying a grain mill. Does anyone have any experience with the Retsel or the Jupiter mills? They are both stone mills. I have read that Sally Fallon recommends the Jupiter and Sue Gregg recommends the Retsel. Any thoughts?
Our hand mill is a Retzel. It is a REAL workout! I've got strong arms from years of farmwork and can still only grind a couple cups of flour at a time, so if you go with the retzel I'd recommended a motorized version ;). I also thought it didn't grind finely enough to make really good, light 100% wh. wh. bread after having used whispermill flour and even if I ground several batches at a time I couldn't supply enough for our needs. We finally got a Nutrimill and I love it. For a non-electric mill I'd like to check into the Diamant mill but this time I am going to see it first and grind some flour in it before purchasing! From what I have read and heard of the Jupiter it rates a little lower than the Retsel even...Hope that helps.

Offline bakermom

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2007, 08:10:28 AM »
Should we soak all grains or not??  I read the site someone posted about yeast destroying the phytates so you don't have to bother soaking.  So how do we know what is right?  Also , is there a substitute for lecithin in making my bread soft?

Offline boysmama

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2007, 10:19:47 AM »
I'm not sure if this will answer your question. I don't know if pastry flour is different, but I grind the golden whole wheat and make pasta with it and it works really well.  I even made crust for my chicken pot pies with it and it was really good.
Whole wheat pastry flour is ground from SOFT white wheat kernels. Bread flour is  from HARD wheat of whatever color-red, golden, bronze, white.

I have used the hard wheat for pasta, pastry, cookies, and cakes and it is good, but the soft is definitely better- not as strong flavored and much softer, flakier textures...

Offline sarah2be

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2007, 03:56:30 PM »
I'm currently looking into buying a grain mill. Does anyone have any experience with the Retsel or the Jupiter mills? They are both stone mills. I have read that Sally Fallon recommends the Jupiter and Sue Gregg recommends the Retsel. Any thoughts?

I purchased a used motorized Retsel mill off of E-bay about 1 1/2 years ago.  I purchased it based on Sue Gregg's recommendation.  My main reasons were (1)  I have a large family and need to grind quite a bit at one time (2) not overheating the flour (3) it is supposed to last a long time because it is such a simple design --and from what I have heard, even the motor can be replaced (4) if left unattended on empty, the mill will not be damaged (5) there is no casing to harbor worms (which I read about being an issue with the prettier wooden cased stone mills)

After using it quite a bit, I must say it is a work horse and I am pleased with my purchase.  It is not beautiful, but the service is a fine trade off to serve my family.   I previously owned a Kitchen-Aid mill that attached to my old Kitchen-Aid, which is a steel burr mill.  The coarseness of the flour is similar to the Kitchen-Aid -it does into grind quite as fine as a K-Tec, Nutrimill or Whispermill, but I have been able to make some beautiful bread with it and that has not been an issue (esp. as I have seen some of my friends have issues with repairs with those machines--they seem much more fragile.  I would be nervous letting a child help out with breadmaking with some of those other mills, but with the Retsel, I am very comfortable allowing them to be a part of one of their favorite activities.)

I am not familiar with the Jupiter to offer any comparison.  I

Offline Beth in Idaho

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2007, 06:32:56 PM »
Lecithin is an emulsifier.  If this is good for bread texture, then egg whites should work as a good substitute.  Lecithin is most commonly derived from soy as well, read your labels.  ;)

Wow HealthyBratt.....I didn't know you could use egg whites in place of lecithin....I was concerned about lecithin being from soy...so do not include this in any bread I make but...now I know I can use egg whites....I am going to try this! Thanks for the info! Beth in Idaho

Offline herbalmom

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #88 on: January 09, 2007, 06:42:21 PM »
Lecithin is an emulsifier.  If this is good for bread texture, then egg whites should work as a good substitute.  Lecithin is most commonly derived from soy as well, read your labels.  ;)

HB,
I know that egg yolks contain lecithin- it's the lecithin in the egg yolk that emulsifies oil & vinegar into mayonnaise- but I haven't heard of egg white emulsifying. Would you have any idea of how much to use in bread? Thanks. Blessings ~herbalmom

Offline SarahK

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2007, 02:47:03 AM »
HB,
I know that egg yolks contain lecithin- it's the lecithin in the egg yolk that emulsifies oil & vinegar into mayonnaise- but I haven't heard of egg white emulsifying. Would you have any idea of how much to use in bread? Thanks. Blessings ~herbalmom

I'm not HB - but I regularly add egg to my bread.  I just plop1 per loaf I intend to make in the bottom of the cup I"m gonna measure liquid in & then put my liquid on top of that.  (replacing liquid with egg 1 to 1)

Sarah K
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