Author Topic: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders  (Read 120309 times)

Offline lewisquiverfull

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Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« on: April 11, 2006, 05:21:33 PM »
I have just recently started getting "into" healthy eating. I have been looking into buying a grain mill to make our own flour, does anyone have one? And, if so, what kind do you recommend? I would really like to find a used one, maybe someone didn't use much, but if I can't find one, I want to buy one eventually. Thanks. I also would like a great wheat bread recipe.

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2006, 06:08:26 PM »
Thanks. I also would like a great wheat bread recipe.

This is a white flour recipe but I have used wheat flour and it worked well.  I don't know about home ground flour, but I'm sure all you'd need to do is check your moisture and add/subtract more water or flour as needed.

Favorite Bread Machine White Bread with Variations
1.5 lb loaf (for bread machine size check below)

1 cup water (wonder what some buttermillk in there would do?)
2 TLB oil
2 TLB sugar
1 1/2 tsp salt
3 cups bread flour
2 1/4 tsp yeast

Put in machine in order given.  Use whatever settings you desire for a 1.5 lb loaf.

My personal variations:

super spicy - 1-2 T crushed red peppers (wear gloves and don't touch your nose  :o)

onion - 3 T dried minced onions (you can use fresh chopped if you prefer

Italian - 1/2 c chopped dried tomatoes (our family favorite)
           1 T Italian seasoning
           2 tsp fresh chopped garlic (I actually use frozen - see the garlic thread for details)


Quote
Comments and variations from author:

Now the reason I REALLY like this recipe is that it is VERY forgiving. I add stuff to this all the time with success some of my adds have been:

dried crandberries
various spices from italian type (garlic!) to pumpkin pie spices and anything in between!

I also like to add sweetened ginger, cinnamon, raisins, craisens, nutmeg, allspice (of course not a lot of each)

1/4 cup dried fruit (like for fruitcakes) and a tad more sugar

These additions have good taste, but are funny looking:
chocolate pieces
olives
meunster cheese chunks (toss in on top of flour) or both olives and cheese and garlic, hot pepper flake or two ...

If you do adds you may want to check the machine after the second knead to see if it looks "right" like a kneaded dough should look adjust and reset machine if not.

Oh and I use olive oil sometimes as well. You can interchange oil and butter in recipes

Good luck!


To determine the size of your bread machine if you happened on it used and without instructions as I did, simply fill your pan with water 1 cup at a time and use the following chart to determine the loaf size.

10 cups of water = 1 lb loaf
11-13 cups of water = 1.5 lb loaf
13+ cups of water = 2 lb loaf
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 06:15:25 PM by healthybratt »
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Offline 4myhoonie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2006, 02:24:56 AM »
hi QF!  i have an Ultramill and i love it!  it is relatively quiet for a mill and very quick!  in about 2 min. you can do 10 c. of grain which makes about 14 cups of flour.  i also bought a Bosche Universal and that is the key!  it does all the kneading for you.  you run it for 6 or 7 min after adding all the flour.   i've been making our bread for about a year and was absolutely amazed that it doesn't really resemble whole grain homemade bread.  i thought it would be rock hard and grainy feeling as all the other times i had tried to make it without any white flour had turned out.  esp. with store bought wheat flour.  anyway these two things have worked great for me, although sometimes i have to vary the amount of flour for weather changes. i don't know if i can pass out my recipe just yet, i will check with my friend that gave it to me.  the recipe i have that i use with these machines makes 6 small loves a batch, which will last our family of 6 (baby not eating any yet) 1 1/2 -2 weeks.  it would be great to bake this batch every week if necessary though.  i freeze the extra loaves and take them out as needed.  also if you can get a bread slicing guide and electric knife it will make really nice toaster slices and for sandwiches.  before i got that i was becoming much better at slicing it without making a mess!   ;D
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 05:24:03 PM by fivewittletids »
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Offline candcwelch

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2006, 09:29:25 AM »
We have been grinding our own prairie gold wheat and making our own bread for over 2 years now (we have not bought bread at all since then). I use a whisper mill grain mill and a large mixer. I make 6 loaves at a time and freeze 5. It takes me about 30 minutes to make - then I let it rise an hour or so and 30 minutes to cook.

for 6 loaves

6 c. water (very warm)
2/3c. oil
2/3c. honey
3 T. gluten
3 T. dough enhancer
2 T. salt
3 T. yeast (buy in bulk at sam's club)
5 c. flour (fresh ground so it is warm) and more for kneeding

Place all ingredients into a large mixer. Mix well. Let it sit for 2 minutes. Then add more flour until the sides of the mixer are clean. Let it kneed for 5-7 minutes. Take out and shape into bread pans. Let rise about 1 hour. Cook 350° for 30 minutes.

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Offline dara

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006, 09:32:31 AM »
This is what we do too, with the same mill. I love my mill, 'cause I can grind all kinds of grains, like rice, for my gluten free kid. I have a recipe that is great for making by hand too, if you want it. If you try making bread, and have problems, we can probably help you troubleshoot. I've been doing it since I was 14, and have made many "bricks" to have learned from. ::)
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Offline candcwelch

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 09:47:42 AM »
We also grind corn for corn meal and beans for making different breads. I had my doubts as to if the mill would really be worth it - but it definately has! My husband is also glad we bought it  - the bread is much different than any whole wheat bread that you buy.

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 09:56:10 AM »
I thought gluten was naturally occurring in wheat.  Why would you add it to your bread?  Can you leave it out?
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Offline candcwelch

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 10:01:41 AM »
My mother-in-law makes my bread recipe w/o the gluten and it is flatter and more brick like. I copied some info about gluten below.



Vital Wheat Gluten

Vital Wheat Gluten is usually added to 100% whole wheat bread dough. It helps make a lighter loaf. There is no need to add it to recipes that use 100% white bread flour or are mostly white bread flour. The white bread flour has plenty of protein for the job at hand. For 100% whole-wheat bread use 1 tablespoon per cup of flour.

TIP: Also, on the market is what is called Gluten Flour. This is a combination of white bread flour and vital wheat gluten. It is usually 50/50. I suggest you avoid this product and go for the Vital Wheat Gluten. If you do get the Gluten Flour you will need to use twice the amount I indicated above.

Offline 4myhoonie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 05:26:49 PM »
i'm thinking the Ultramill is the newer model of the Whisper mill--correct??  i bought it from a friend who has a baking business and i think that's what she told me.  i have learned a lot from this thread, maybe i'll get better at this bread baking stuff!  thanks!  ;D
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Offline Joy2BMommy

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 07:42:11 AM »
I have the Nutrimill and LOVE it!  I'm able to put 12 cups of wheat berries in it all at one time and walk away - it makes a different sound when it's all done, so I know to come back and shut it off - then my 16+ cups of flour are all ready and waiting to start my bread.  These come with a great warranty and are distributed by the same company that distributes the Bosch mixers.  A big selling point for me was that they expected to be able to add a manual adapter at some point, though ETA was still unknown.  I've had mine for about 18 months and couldn't be happier with it!

Debbi
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Offline lewisquiverfull

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 05:29:14 AM »
Thanks for all the help and recipes. I tried to make bread last night in my bread maker, and its a brick. I don't have a large stand mixer, can you make the large batch of bread without the stand mixer??? Also, should I even use my bread maker anymore, just to try out a loaf?? I have never had a good loaf of bread out of it. Maybe I'm doing something very wrong, but it's always hard and yucky. I am VERY new to this, and I really want to make great bread for my family, but I don't have lots of money to buy a mill and mixer right now. Does anyone have any suggestions without those tools???
Thanks.

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 05:50:02 AM »
Also, should I even use my bread maker anymore, just to try out a loaf?? I have never had a good loaf of bread out of it.

I have trouble with mine too, but I have noticed, that if I make 2 loaves of bread right in a row, that the 2nd loaf always does better.  I've attributed this to the heat leftover from the first baking.  I keep my flour in the freezer and this means it takes longer to warm up.  If I put the ingredients in right away, the machine is usually too hot, and I have to let the ingredients set in the maker until the "hot" switch goes off.  So I started warming the pan with hot water and allowing my ingredients to warm longer before starting the machine.  I can never seem to duplicate the heat produced by making a loaf of bread, but my first loaves usually do better when I prep this way.

I tried warming my flour in the microwave one time  ::)  Hee hee.  It turned into a sticky mess.  I wouldn't recommend this. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 05:52:08 AM by healthybratt »
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Offline 4myhoonie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 08:01:21 AM »
i have found a few years ago that my bread machine was useless for whole grain.  i have recently been making sourdough in it for olive oil dipping.  (white flour--bad i know, but it makes hubby happy  ;D )  as i write i am experimenting w/ the same recipe and 1/2 fresh milled prairie gold.  so will let you know......
« Last Edit: May 06, 2006, 04:37:41 PM by fivewittletids »
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Offline dara

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 08:15:09 AM »
I have a good recipe for making 3 loaves of w/w bread by hand, if you want it. I do think having your ingredients at room temperature makes a difference, and for some reason, bread never works out on a humid, rainy day. Atmospheric pressure, or something.
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Offline candcwelch

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 08:29:00 AM »
When I had a bread machine, I always used bread flour (the little book that came with it said to do that). It always turned out perfect - but I always used the recipes that came with the book.

When we switched to whole wheat, we bought a dimension 2000 mixer. I think it might be the long kneeding time and the warmth of the freshly ground flour that helps it rise so well. My mother-in-law just called to tell me she followed my recipe exactly (but using her kitchen-aid mixer and some flour I ground for her earlier) and it still was a little flat.

The mixer was an investment - but it has a blender on the side that we make snow cones in with just ice, water, and juice - and I have also made waffle batter using whole grain berries - we use it several times a week - so for us, it was worth the investment. It comes with two bowls too - so we can mix cake batter, cookie dough, even whip up egg whites.

Our favorite thing about ditching the bread machine was being able to use the whole loaf of bread (without the big hole in the bottom) - but I do miss the timer feature that our bread machine had.

Celeste

Offline simplecountrygal

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2006, 11:23:17 AM »
I've been making bread for 3 years now.  I have a Whisper Mill (updated version is now the ultra mill) and love it!  I started making by hand, then moved to the bread machine (Zojurushi) and then to the universal bosch.  Wow.  Love my Bosch.  I use blender more than I thought I would.  I put whole grains in my blender with other ingredients to make muffins and waffles.  Mmmm good!  I got this from Sue Gregg.  www.suegregg.com  She has the waffle recipe on her website.  Full list of recipes in her Breakfast, and Soups and Muffins cookbooks.  She says it will work in any tough blender...like the 12 or16 speed osterizer blender (I think this is under $50).  I used gluten in my bread machine bread.  I don't need it in my hand kneaded or dough mixer bread.  Another possibly useful website is www.urbanhomemaker.com.  Make sure all ingredients are fresh and room temp.  Temperature and humidity changes can affect bread too.  Don't give up, keep asking questions. 

Offline mishy

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2006, 01:17:46 AM »
does anyone have a grain grinder to recommend?

Also, anyone read up on whole wheat?  I read that it goes rancid very quickly, but I wonder why my store bought whole wheat flour doesn't- and I don't keep it in the fridge?  Do they treat it? 

Thanks! 
Danna

Offline 4myhoonie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 02:01:03 AM »
Hi Danna--i have an ultramill, which i really like.  i have not had any trouble with my wheat going bad.  i have that whole wheat store bought flour loses all of it's nutrients before we get it though.  it probably is chemically grown wheat, with the exception of Wheat Montana.  they don't add any chemicals in their growing or grinding processes, but they are not certified organic.  i usually keep my wheat berries in a shelf/cupboard in the basement where it's relatively cool.   :)
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Offline simplecountrygal

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 06:27:14 AM »
I have a whisper mill (older version of the ultra mill) and like it.

After wheat is milled it typically looses the majority of it's nutrients in 72 hours (depends on temperature/humidity).  From what I know, freezing it just after milling will keep all but Vit. E.  You're whole wheat store flour has not had the outer portion of the grain stripped and then bleached like white flour, but it is rancid...not to mention more bitter.  Fresh milled bread is sooo good!  As far as being treated, it depends on the company.  If it hasn't had chemicals it will typically say so.  If nothing is said, figure it's "treated".  Storage of grains depends on the weather.  Heat and humidity "ain't good" and bugs can get them if not stored properly.  However, I lived in South Louisiana (plenty of heat and humidity  ;)) and bought Wheat Montana's Hard White Wheat (great for bread!), which is stored in an air-tight bucket, and I never had problems.  I also bought other grains (not in air tight buckets), put them in a bucket and kept them in a dry place in the house without problems.  (They say grain will last 100 years or more if store properly  :o  they've found them in Egyptian tombs still whole and bug free) 

I learned about grains from a friend and from author/chef Sue Gregg (www.suegregg.com).  Sue Gregg's breakfast cookbook has great info on grains as well as recipes.  Here's a link that talks a little about grains http://www.suegregg.com/about/whitetowhole.htm .  You can purchase grains from lots of places.  A good place to start may be through a local co-op.

Hope this gets you started.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 06:32:20 AM by simplecountrygal »

Offline mishy

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2006, 02:11:59 AM »
Wow, I completely missed the beginning of this thread.  i thought I started the topic, but I must have typed the exact same title and it came under what was already here......anyway, had me confused and probably you too since there were a ton of grain mill recommendations already!   :-[
Anyway.  I have another question.  I was reading that all grains should be soaked because of the phytates.  Do you grain grinding ladies do anything about that?  I was a little confused in the book I read because it said grind and then soak.  ???  To me that would seem to equal mush?  Has anyone out there tried it?  Anyone know how they make that Ezekiel bread and when in the process the grains are sprouted and how much they are sprouted?  I know one person who bought some of the E bread and she said it tasted really nasty.
Thanks!! 
Danna

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2006, 03:46:49 AM »
The Maker's diet recommends that you sprout your grains BEFORE you grind them.  Read these links and see if you find any helpful information.

Growing Sprouts
Be Kind to Your Grains.
Simply Sprouts
Essene Bread
Nature's Live Food--Sprouts
You Are What You Eat - Grains
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 03:58:10 AM by healthybratt »
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Offline mishy

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2006, 03:53:04 PM »
So it all looks pretty cut and dried.  Sprout and cook em.  I'll have to try it.  There was a mention of a champion juicer after you soak the grains.  I have one so maybe I can get by without buying a grinder.  That'd be nice! 

Offline simplecountrygal

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2006, 05:35:40 AM »
Use can also make waffles, pancakes, and muffins without a grinder....use a strong blender!   Recipe at http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/breakfasts/blenderbatterwaffles/blenderbatterwafflesA.htm  (You can substitute Apple Juice for the buttermilk if you have dairy allergy.)

Offline a_new_creation

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2006, 03:18:54 AM »
Anyway.  I have another question.  I was reading that all grains should be soaked because of the phytates.  Do you grain grinding ladies do anything about that?  I was a little confused in the book I read because it said grind and then soak.  ???  To me that would seem to equal mush?  Has anyone out there tried it?
Thanks!! 
Danna

Here is my recipe which includes "soaking" in an acidic medium to neutralize phytates.  I am copying it from my website.  I have a Magic Mill (Electrolux) Assistent 2000 DLX, which is basically a big stand mixer.  I have never made this by hand or in a bread machine, but it comes out wonderfully fluffy and light w/ my mixer.  It makes 2 large (8.5" x 4.5") loaves.  I have found the egg to be crucial; otherwise it falls half the time!  I used to add gluten and lecithin but then I left them out one time and couldn't tell a difference so I don't use them anymore.  That and I avoid soy now (lecithin).

Ingredients
5-6 cups freshly milled flour (hard red or hard white) (see Notes below)
1/3 cup olive oil
1 egg
1/3 cup honey
1 cup water
1 cup kefir (yogurt might work; never tried it)
1 scant tablespoon instant yeast
2 1/2 teaspoons sea salt

Instructions
In the DLX mixer, combine the water, kefir, olive oil, egg, honey, salt, and enough flour so the dough pulls away from the sides of the bowl (everything EXCEPT the yeast).
Mix well, cover, and allow to sit in a warm place for at least 7 hours.
Add the yeast and let the mixer knead the dough for 10-12 minutes.
Divide dough in half. On a lightly oiled surface, roll each half into a rectangle and then roll up, pinwheel style, along the shorter edge. Pinch along the seam to seal.
Place each loaf seam-side down in a large (1.5-2 lb.) loaf pan that has been greased with butter or olive oil on the bottom and sides. Or you can skip the oil and just line the loaf pan with sheets of parchment paper.
Let loaves rise in a warm place until the tops are 1-2 inches above the pan, about an hour or longer.
Bake in a preheated oven at 350 degrees for 28-30 minutes. Be careful not to bang the pans while putting them in the oven or the loaves may fall.  Or, 25 minutes @ 325 degrees in a convection oven.
When they are done, take them out of the pans immediately to avoid soggy sides. You can use a spatula to loosen each side of the loaf from the pan, and they usually slide right out. If you use the parchment paper it comes out very easily.
Place on a cooling rack and cover with a dish towel while they cool. The towel helps keep the crust from getting too hard/thick.
When slightly cooled (about 20 minutes), place each loaf in a plastic bag. This helps retain softness and moisture.
If you wish to freeze the loaves, put them in the freezer immediately after placing them in the bags. When ready to use them, allow to thaw on the counter, not the microwave. This will only take a couple of hours, and they will still be moist and light.

Notes
You may have to use a little more than 5 cups of flour. You don't want wet dough, but you don't want it dry as a bone, either.
To make the honey slide out of the measuring cup easily, measure the oil first and then the honey (using the same measuring cup).
You want to let the dough sit for at least 7 hours but not much more than 12 hours else the end result will be sour. If you like sourdough bread, let it go longer.
If you add the yeast with the other ingredients, the bread will taste yeasty and nasty!
Carla
Wife to Doug ('00), Mama to Noah ('02), Claire ('04), and Chloe ('06)

Offline candcwelch

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2006, 08:20:25 AM »
Thanks for the recipe! It looks great.

Celeste

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Offline 4myhoonie

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2006, 03:18:00 AM »
a_new_creation--can you post your website?  i thought maybe you'd have other useful breadmaking info, etc. on it?  thanks!   :D
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Offline wolfsonmom

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2006, 04:13:59 AM »
I just wanted to jump in and say my best friend has a whole-grain bread making business that I highly recommend.  Here it is www.breadbeckers.com.

Janet

Offline Sanya

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2006, 08:45:33 AM »
I was reading that all grains should be soaked because of the phytates.  Do you grain grinding ladies do anything about that?  I was a little confused in the book I read because it said grind and then soak.  ???  To me that would seem to equal mush?  Has anyone out there tried it? 

I have had a Bosch Mixer w/ blender for 3 years now and a NutriMill grain mill for about 2 yrs...they are both a huge time and nutrient saver for me.  I've read about the phytates in grains in Nourishing Traditions (NT) and some of Sue Gregg's materials.  I soak almost all my grains before cooking them.  I use recipes from NT to cook Buttermilk Biscuits, Cream Cheese Pastries, Rice, Yougurt Dough (for pizza crust, filled sandwiches, etc), Hot Cereal...(I can't think of any more off the top of my head.)  And I use Sue Gregg's recipes for pancakes, waffles, cornbread (substituting masa for corn) and coffee cakes.  My family and I really like the taste of all of these.  We've tried others, but these are winners every time!

Sanya
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Offline MotherOfBlessings

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2006, 09:52:42 AM »
Question for candcwelch: ???
What kind of stand mixer do you use?  I have a Kitchenaide (the smallest bowl size) I have been having trouble finding a good whole grain recipie that works in my machine.

We have been grinding our own prairie gold wheat and making our own bread for over 2 years now (we have not bought bread at all since then). I use a whisper mill grain mill and a large mixer. I make 6 loaves at a time and freeze 5. It takes me about 30 minutes to make - then I let it rise an hour or so and 30 minutes to cook.

for 6 loaves

6 c. water (very warm)
2/3c. oil
2/3c. honey
3 T. gluten
3 T. dough enhancer
2 T. salt
3 T. yeast (buy in bulk at sam's club)
5 c. flour (fresh ground so it is warm) and more for kneeding

Place all ingredients into a large mixer. Mix well. Let it sit for 2 minutes. Then add more flour until the sides of the mixer are clean. Let it kneed for 5-7 minutes. Take out and shape into bread pans. Let rise about 1 hour. Cook 350° for 30 minutes.

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Offline mishy

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Re: Whole Wheat & Wheat Grinders
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2006, 03:14:43 PM »
Thanks Sanya, I have finally gotten to that part in my NT book.  Now a grain grinder is at the top of my "I want" list. :)