Author Topic: Beer, Wine, Spirits  (Read 33626 times)

Offline lotsaboys

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2007, 08:34:40 AM »
I found this very interesting article on the subject.
http://chetday.com/alcoholandthebible.htm
Sherri

Some very good points, Sherri. Thanks. :)

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2007, 06:11:05 AM »
If alcohol wasn't regulated as a controlled substance, it would not be taxable to the extent that it is and people would be able to make it themselves without license or limitation.
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Offline wyomama3

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2007, 09:28:54 AM »
I have done a lot of thinking about alcohol.  It started with the 'Christians can't drink', (nope, they just can't get drunk), but that is for another website. ;)
Think about the mass products vs the home made.  It was mentioned earlier of the addivtives put into wine.  I am sure that the same applies to beer.  Any benefits that we get from a beer or wine have got to be lessened due to the filtering and refinement process.  Perhaps that is why a dark beer is more so recommended, because it hasn't been processed as much as say, a pale, light beer from the mountains of Colorado. 
Why does wine, and some beers cause bloat?  The sugar content perhaps?  Maybe what you eat it with?  5 dinner rolls at Thanksgiving and a beer are not a good combination for my BIL- feed that yeast!  I like sweet wine, but it sometimes will give me a headache.  Light beers always have given me a sinus headache, even if it is just a few ounces.  The darks are better for me. 
The pregnant man belly:  Maybe it has to do with the amount of beer consumed on a regular basis (calories) and what the beer is eaten with (pretzels, refined honey roasted peanut product).  Or, could it have to do with the individual label brand, and their method of processing and ingredients?  Interesting.
If our Kombucha has so many enzyme benefits, wouldn't a naturally fermented beer and wine?
* I have not researched any of this.  Just have done a lot of brain drain on the subject. 

Offline lotsaboys

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2008, 12:43:42 PM »
Beth, have you looked in Nourishing Traditions?


Probably a dumb question. :-[
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 12:55:04 PM by lotsaboys »

Offline rebekahgrif

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2008, 03:19:09 AM »
question.  Do hard liquors, like rum or vodka, carry the same health benefits aw wine or beer?  What about whiskey? (hubby likes his jack daniels)

Offline ~esposita~

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2008, 05:18:14 AM »
yeah, I have looked in N T. It doesn't really have what I'm looking for. I've made the ginger beer about five years ago. And I've started the culture to make some more. What I was looking for was something a little more like beer. More authentic. Its for my husband (well if it turns out good...).
    I'm looking into the book "Wild Fermentation". Or maybe "How to cook like your grandma did".  Anyone read them?  Be interested in a review from someone here.

Did you try the recipe in NT for Small Beer (I think it is in there  ???)  If it is NOT, PM ManyWeavers - Her DH made some small beer that my DH enjoyed in that is DID taste somewhat like a real beer (if I properly recall... ::))
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Offline Mrs. B

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2008, 05:18:31 AM »
question.  Do hard liquors, like rum or vodka, carry the same health benefits aw wine or beer?  What about whiskey? (hubby likes his jack daniels)
Generally they don't.  I think it has to do with the issue of distilling rather than fermenting as with wine.  

Offline ForeverGirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2008, 06:33:27 AM »
(Gabe here...)

@Light beers always have given me a sinus headache, even if it is just a few ounces:

--> Probably an estrogen headache?

@The pregnant man belly:

--> I have often heard this attributed to "too hight high estrogen levels" as beer has a lot of estrogen (hops). However, other places say that all alcohol consumption will naturally increase estrogen levels and decrease testosterone levels... but in my observation, it is the beer drinkers that get the beer belly... not wine or other alcohol drinkers. We have a lot of public drunks to observe in this town ;)

@If our Kombucha has so many enzyme benefits, wouldn't a naturally fermented beer and wine?

--> I would love an answer to this as well... especially as regards wine.

@Do hard liquors, like rum or vodka, carry the same health benefits as wine or beer?  What about whiskey?

--> I think that the alcohol with the most health benefits will be wine simply because of all the good stuff that goes into it. It is usually made from berries with high proanthrocyanin content, it is not distilled (like liquors with higher alcohol content) and it is one of the simplest fermentation processes of any alcohol. This is not to say that there aren't some health benefits to hard liquors... but that they are either due to the additives (gin is sometimes flavored with juniper berries) or simply to the fact that alcohol tends (in general) to counteract atherosclerosis, etc...

About alcohol, physical expression and sexuality...

Here is a funny, and definitely worldly forum thread that covers ideas about hormones (pheromones, specifically) and personal affect. Here are two rather hilarious quotes:

Quote
It's been shown by brain scans that the areas of the male brain associated with danger are activiated in the presence of ANY male, and very rarely a female.

Ever notice that men that really get along with other men tend to be "beer dudes"? You very rarely see large groups of men co-existing without beer nearby.

It's WELL known that it's hard to get drunk or even get a buzz from beer, especially if you drink it several times a week. Yet it's the most popular social drink amongst men on the planet.

Quote
If there's a pretty woman around, for instance, and I want her attention.. and I'm in a room full of soy eating men... so what? I'll get that woman's attention, and she'll like me more than anyone else there. I know it. There's no question in my mind about it. It's not even an issue of confidence, it's more subjective impression.

Now if it was a room full of bodybuilders or even normal "guys", maybe even "normal" blue collar guys who get a little physical for a living and eat steak & potatoes every night, well... I won't feel the same about it. I may not even try to get her attention.

So, as an example... lets say a man just has a lot of testosterone. Maybe its his physiology, maybe its his work, his environment, his diet... whatever. He would probably naturally be a feisty character and probably hard to get along with unless he is working like a maniac or something. For this guy it might be a good idea to lower testosterone levels and raise estrogen levels from time to time. A little whisky in the evening could have a very real life-prolonging, quality-of-life-enhancing effect!

On the other hand, there was Samson who never had alcohol in his life... and was a real fighter.

Finally... Rebekah had this to add, "When I was working in a hostel in Haifa, I once overhead a conversation between two men that went something like this:

local: You just get here?
traveler: yes
local: How do you like Israeli women?
traveler: Scary.
local: What? What are you comparing them to?
traveler: [...discussion omitted for a number of reasons...] ...but the sexiest women in the world are in Napa Valley."

This is of interest to this discussion because, of course, Napa Valley is where the best (most would agree I think) American wines come from... the entire valley is dedicated almost entirely to the production of wine "ingredients."

My point being that all-natural-wine (as opposed to beer, or liquor for instance) might add to the "feminine" in some way... Just conjecture, of course... but interesting in light of the discussion.

--gabe
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 10:57:42 AM by Gabriel Anast »
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"JOE!!! You DOUGHNUT COCONUT COCONUT COCONUT!!!"

Offline ForeverGirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2008, 06:45:53 AM »
yeah, I have looked in N T. It doesn't really have what I'm looking for. I've made the ginger beer about five years ago. And I've started the culture to make some more. What I was looking for was something a little more like beer. More authentic. Its for my husband (well if it turns out good...).
    I'm looking into the book "Wild Fermentation". Or maybe "How to cook like your grandma did".  Anyone read them?  Be interested in a review from someone here.

Hi Beth,
I bought the book Wild Fermentation and ended up sending it back. The book was written by a homos*xual man living in a homos*xual commune type place, and his research was partly from the perspective of how to live with AIDS. Some good information in it, but the lifestyle he continually presented throughout the book left me feeling sexually harassed. JFYI.

review:
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1931498237?filterBy=addTwoStar
Honey Sunny in complete exasperation:
"JOE!!! You DOUGHNUT COCONUT COCONUT COCONUT!!!"

Offline 6psnapod

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2008, 12:59:26 PM »
I have recently read somewhere that they are now saying red grape juice has the same heart healthy benefits as red wine. We found a great little shop on the Net that sells great juice of all kinds and you can get organic and sulfite-free too from all over the world (coming soon they say). It is definitely not as inexpensive as going down to your local supermarket and picking up a bottle of wine, but they have many varieties to choose from and we have loved each and every bottle! Plus,  we only do it as a special treat. I love drinking out of pretty stemware. I had no idea grape juice came in so many varieties and "flavors". And no alcohol heartburn afterwards...   sweetwatercellars is the place
Lisa

Offline naturalgirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2008, 11:20:59 AM »
When making tinctures, could you make elderberry wine do instead of vodka?

herbfever

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2008, 01:23:44 PM »
When making tinctures, could you make elderberry wine do instead of vodka?

Sure that would be considered a medicinal wine. With the lower alcohol content it should need to steep longer.

eta: It won't be as strong as a tincture though.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 05:49:13 AM by herbfever »

Offline naturalgirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2008, 07:49:13 AM »
Hmm...so it would take more to achieve the same benefits, right? Is it because it has a lower alcohol ph (or whatever you call it) ?

herbfever

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2008, 09:48:55 AM »
Hmm...so it would take more to achieve the same benefits, right? Is it because it has a lower alcohol ph (or whatever you call it) ?

Yes, you would need to take more. Tablespoons of wine versus drops of tincture. In my recent in depth studies of sage, I came across Eull Gibbon's recommendation for sage infused wine. He recommended three tablespoons of it as a tonic. That is one example. The older herbalists like Culpeper were fond of medicinal wines. Your elderberry wine would have the benefits of elderberry so you might want to save some of that for cold season. YOu would have to drink more of it than a tincture or glycerite though.
Different alcohols do different things with the plants constituents. A tincture is atleast 40%(80 proof) alcohol. High resinous plants like calendula need a high proof like Everclear( 95% alcohol or 190 proof) to pull out all of it's constituents.

Offline naturalgirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2008, 06:52:04 AM »
So that is why Kombuchia (sp?) doesn't work for tinctures...I've been wondering! This wine has been made with white sugar and boughten yeast made for raising bread. Will the alcohol change the "badness" of these two ingredients?

herbfever

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2008, 08:10:28 AM »
So that is why Kombuchia (sp?) doesn't work for tinctures...I've been wondering! This wine has been made with white sugar and boughten yeast made for raising bread. Will the alcohol change the "badness" of these two ingredients?

Yes, Kombucha has very little alcohol. 0.4-1.5% but usually right around 0.5%. Wine is typically between 7-14%. Lots of wines are made with white sugar so that wouldn't bother me. It is there for the yeast to feed off of. The store bought yeast wouldn't really bother me in this instance either. Some herbalists even use it to make dandelion wine.


Offline Beth

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2008, 04:55:45 AM »
  You could always make mead. That is wine made with honey. Actually I think that fruit added with honey is called melomel. Wine made with honey and herbs is called methoglin.
  Mead is thought to be one of the oldest wines. Traditionally it was considered to be a health tonic.
  There is a book called "the red wine diet" by Roger Corder. It was interesting. The author studied the benefits of a moderate use of red wine (grape wine). Its use is said to greatly reduce heart disease. He also did not consider reversatrol to be the beneficial component. He believed to be procyanidins. A type of antioxidant that can only be found in red wines. This is because of the way they are made. Red wines ferment with the skins and the seeds in the juice for an extended period of time. From 1 week up to 4 weeks. It is the fermenting process with the skins and seeds that make this available. White wines are fermented with just the juice. So according to this grape juice is not an alternative if you want to receive the benefits of procyanidins.
  He also listed some other foods that contain this naturally. Chocolate being my personal favorite. He mentioned several fruits too. And I had to wonder if you made a wine with these fruits if you could get some of the same benefits of red wine.
  It was an interesting book I didn't neccessarily agree with everything. But it was food for thought.
 
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline naturalgirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2008, 05:08:11 AM »
  You could always make mead. That is wine made with honey. Actually I think that fruit added with honey is called melomel. Wine made with honey and herbs is called methoglin.
  Mead is thought to be one of the oldest wines. Traditionally it was considered to be a health tonic.
  There is a book called "the red wine diet" by Roger Corder. It was interesting. The author studied the benefits of a moderate use of red wine (grape wine). Its use is said to greatly reduce heart disease. He also did not consider reversatrol to be the beneficial component. He believed to be procyanidins. A type of antioxidant that can only be found in red wines. This is because of the way they are made. Red wines ferment with the skins and the seeds in the juice for an extended period of time. From 1 week up to 4 weeks. It is the fermenting process with the skins and seeds that make this available. White wines are fermented with just the juice. So according to this grape juice is not an alternative if you want to receive the benefits of procyanidins.
  He also listed some other foods that contain this naturally. Chocolate being my personal favorite. He mentioned several fruits too. And I had to wonder if you made a wine with these fruits if you could get some of the same benefits of red wine.
  It was an interesting book I didn't neccessarily agree with everything. But it was food for thought.
 

 The elderberry wine I was given had the same thing happen...1-2 weeks fermentation of the whole fruit. The elderly man who explained how he and his wife made it empisised using fruit, not juice. He gave me the recipe, if anyone is intrested...

Quote
"It was an interesting book I didn't neccessarily agree with everything. But it was food for thought."
 

You said it! That is like just about everything around us today :). Tells me Beth that you like to think too!  :D (I like that about people  ;) )

Offline Beth

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2008, 03:16:56 PM »
 I would be interested in the recipe. Out of curiousity if nothing else...
  fermenting it with the fruit was the important part according to the author of the book. White wine (just fermented juice) did not have the same health benefits (heart disease in particular).
  I would guess it would work the same with other fruits and their respective health benefits.
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline naturalgirl

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2008, 04:19:53 PM »
   Here's the recipe then, exactly in the older man's words as he dictated:

1 1/2 gal. fruit (not juice)
4 1/2 gal. lukewarm water
Keg yeast (bread raising yeast will work)
10 lb sugar
 
Mix in a big crock. Cover with cheesecloth and let sit for oh, around 10 days.

Strain.

Add 6 lb. sugar

Put in glass gal. jugs

Wait until bubbles stop coming to the top before bottling.

  ~Recipe by Frank Andreson

A coworker who listened in said later that it wouldn't hurt the wine any to use less sugar, but then stated that you could use juice too just as well as fruit (they've tried it with less sugar and just juice). From what Beth said, I now understand where that wouldn't be such a good idea, but less sugar, of course, sounded good to me. Take it or leave it ;)

Offline boysmama

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #80 on: November 04, 2008, 04:29:40 PM »
Reducing the sugar reduces potential alcohol. If you keep it at the right temperature so the yeast does not "stall" there will be little sugar left in the final product.
I've learned found out the hands on way that using the water and sugar results in a superior wine.

Offline Beth

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2008, 01:40:37 PM »
boysmama,
        so you're saying to use the regular amount of sugar because it ferments better? And if you let it ferment completely it won't have much sugar left anyway?
"discontenment is not a product of circumstances; it is the state of the soul." ~ Debi Pearl ~    ...and be content with such things as ye have Hebrews 13:5

Offline boysmama

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Re: Beer, Wine, Spirits
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2008, 03:36:03 PM »
boysmama,
        so you're saying to use the regular amount of sugar because it ferments better? And if you let it ferment completely it won't have much sugar left anyway?
Yes, under proper conditions there will not be much sugar left.  I've done some low sugar fruits like elderberry with no added sugar. Very earthy and thin. More sugar= more potential alcohol= longer shelf life.
How much sugar you want to add depends on your goal for the final product and the intrinsic sugar values of your base.
For a sweet wine you have to stop the yeast before the sugar is used up or add sugar after the yeast is killed off. Now my friend had a batch of cherry that fermented for a long time then stopped. He bottled it and put it in what happened to be a warmer place. Exploding cherry "bombs".  :o