Author Topic: Should I resort to antibiotics?  (Read 8566 times)

Offline JennyJoMama

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Should I resort to antibiotics?
« on: February 08, 2007, 04:34:08 AM »
My four month old is sick again... He was sick with bad bronchitis for about a month in Dec/Jan.  I treated it with garlic poultice, which I never felt like did much since it dragged on for soooo long.  After he was well and things seemed to be fine, I noticed his weight..he actually lost about half a pound from the time I had taken him to the doctor in Dec.  I started taking him to the breastfeeding clinic to monitor it and he only gained maybe 2 ounces in a week and got 2 1/2 to 3 ounces when her nursed (they weighed him before and after he nursed).  I have been worried that I'm just not producing enough milk!  I took pregnancy tests and still negative.  So, I've increased my water intake and calories and just started taking More Milk Plus by Motherlove (I was drinking Mother's Milk Tea).  So, all this is happening and then he got sick again!  It seems like bronchitis again, but worse.  He has a fever this morning too.  I've been doing GOOT 3-4 times a day but it seems to be getting worse not better.  I'm afraid that with being sick again he will continue to not gain weight- or even loose weight!  Any advice would be appreciated.  I have an appointment with the doctor at 11am this morning.  Remind me again why I shouldn't put him on antibiotics?  Is there ever a case where it's best?  Is GOOT really doing the same thing? Cause I'm not seeing results yet (I'm not sure how many days it's been, maybe 5?) .  Would it be best to do antibiotics this time so that his sickness doesn't drag on again and cause more weight loss?  Sorry for being soooo long!   :P I just wanted to give you the history. 

Offline babymakers

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2007, 05:06:20 AM »
You couldn't pay me enough to take antibiotics.

Even if they do work now they will just cause the child to get sicker, easier, and worse later.

Before I went to the doctor I would try-
  • Hot salt baths- 20 minute bath and then wrap up in warm clothing and blankets and go to bed. This sweating should help draw out toxins.
  • Only fruits and vegetables that are raw and organic IF there is hunger. Don't make the child eat if they are not hungry
  • Herbal tea is great..no milk, soda, or juice (unless it is made fresh with a juicer)
  • Vitamin E WITH Selenium is really good for the lungs
  • I would also keep up with the garlic and goot.

This is my opinion- I am no doctor.
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Offline RB

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2007, 05:39:38 AM »
I would advise you to do what you and your husband feel is best.   A small baby when sick can  get worse very quickly. 
 When using herbs etc. it is important to nip it in the bud so to speak before the child gets too sick.  If you are breastfeeding you may want to consider your diet as the baby is getting through your milk whatever you are eating.   
I have successfully used  herbs from this combany and had good success with them . http://www.trilightherbs.com/merchant/index.htm   
Its very important to stay on top of  the illness when using herbs and giving them at the first sign of illness.  I usually give them to my children often and In acute cases I have given them  small amounts  every 15 min. until there was improvement. 
This is my advice only.  ;)
Blessing's,
  RB
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Offline SC

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2007, 06:06:05 AM »
I'll repeat this story for those who haven't read it (I forget where I posted it before).

Our youngest child had many health issues, requiring major open heart surgery before the age of one. We had to rely upon medical technology to save his life, even though I'm all about natural remedies and supporting the body in the natural way. The doctors saw first hand the difference in the recovery time of a child who had the benefit of those methods.

God places these children within our care. I believe He expects us to give them every opportunity to grow and thrive in good health. That doesn't guarantee that all of us will always have good health. But in order to be good stewards of the life He has given, we should endeavor to take the best possible care of our health.

Now, for some of us, that means different things. I know of families that have members trained in emergency first aid medicine. If someone needed to have a tracheotomy or a life-saving appendectomy in less than ideal circumstances, a family member COULD step up to the plate. However, if you're at my house, we are going to the emergency room -- I don't have the right equipment or training.

When my little guy was a few months into his recovery from his surgery, he woke up one day just not himself. He had a fever, but I got concerned when his whole demeanor changed to listlessness. He didn't even care whether or not I held him. He just whined, nursed a little and his breath smelled very different. I didn't know what was wrong, but I knew it was happening fast and I wanted another set of eyes on this child. I didn't hesitate to call and get him worked in to be seen by the peditrician.

Of course, I got the whole dog and pony show about how it was probably nothing, but they looked him over and listened to his heart. I insisted that the doctor smell his breath. They thought he just needed something for his fever. Finally, the doctor offered, "Well, we could do a complete blood count." I said that's what I was there for.

They had the equipment there in the office to run the test and a much different expression was on that doctor's face when she reappeared in the exam room. She told me that the child had a fast developing bacterial blood infection and if I hadn't acted so quickly, they would have had to hospitalize him. As things stood, he would just have to have some injections of antibiotics.

I didn't hesitate to accept the help that was available. At the same time, I don't go looking for a pill at every cough or sneeze. We fight it with the things we have on hand, but when I see things starting to go downhill fast -- when I see a child's behavior change drastically -- when I note changes in weight, strength, or anything else that my remedies do not address, I get the input of a medical professional.

Does that mean I always take their advice? No, but I need them for diagnostic purposes a lot of times. They have access to laboratories, tests, and training that I do not. Before we knew of his heart condition, I had a peditrician try to tell me that the reason my baby was gaining weight so terribly slowly was because of my milk. I had charts of his urine and eliminations that told me differently. I continued to nurse instead of trying formula until I found a doctor that could tell me what was happening to those calories. It was his heart.

We are blessed in this country to have some of the finest emergency medical centers and surgeons in the world. In a life threatening situation, refusing the helps provided would be less than wise. At the same time, the final decision on the course of care is your responsibility, one God has placed in the hands of the parents.

And that's from a mom who has her babies at home.

You see, it's not an either/or decision. You do the best you can and use the good sense God gave you to know when to ask for help IMO.
I'm no doctor . . .             I'm not even a Post hole Digger! ;)
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Offline KatieMac

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2007, 07:30:09 AM »
Amazing post, SC!

 I fail to see the danger of judicious use of antibiotics as long as one follows up with a regimen of probiotics. Obviously you don't want to use them unless the situation warrants such a response, but there are definitely things to be done to undue the "damage" that their short term use can cause. Definitely go with your gut instinct. I doubt you will regret doing everything in your power to help your baby.

Offline mykidsmom

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2007, 07:46:23 AM »


SC, Thank you!  You are right on the money.  If this were my 4 month old and I had done everything natural possible and he were still getting sick I would be standing in that doctor's office accepting antibiotics.  The risk of the antibiotics is far less then the risk of death from an infection in a 4 month old baby!  When it comes to taking drugs for medical care it is always important to evaluate the risks vs. the benefits.  Right now, I'd say the risks of not giving the antibiotics far outweigh any risk of giving them.

And, as always, pray and follow your husband's lead. 

patti
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Offline ShabbyChic

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2007, 09:16:05 AM »
I'm nodding and agreeing with SC 100%. 

Since he is 4 mos. and not eating solids (most likely) I'd beef up your milk as much as possible with protein, fat, and calories.  Chicken, avocadoes, nuts, whole milk, whole grains promote more milk production, and vitamins galore. 

Pray, listen to your husband, listen to your Gd-given mother's intuition, and use your head.  Antibiotics and modern medicine are a blessing when used prudently.  And we are not antibiotic promoters in this home.  But if it were my tiny little 4 month old, I'd watch him like a hawk and do whatever it took to get him on the road to recovery.  He isn't 10 years old, and he doesn't have the luxury of being able to tell you what is wrong or lose a few pounds. 

Praying for you. 
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Offline JennyJoMama

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2007, 08:44:10 PM »
I want to thank you dear ladies for your wise and sensitive responses.  I truly appreciate it!  And I thank you for your prayers as well.  Sorry I haven't replied until now...it's been hard to get time on the computer lately.  Well, I took my baby to the doctor and she was concerned about his bronchitis.  She heard crackling and said that his bronchial tubes and lungs have mucus in them.  She's concerned that it will turn into pneumonia.  She was respectful of my desire to treat him naturally, but voiced her concern (a number of times). She prescribed amoxicillin, and 2 other drugs- Provental (which is used for asthma- to open up the airway, since he was wheezing a bit) and Oraped (a steriod to help reduce the swelling in the bronchial tubes).  Are any of you familiar with these drugs?  Do you know of herbs that have a similar effect?  I also was concerned about his weight and was disappointed in her "assesments."  First of all she immediately said I should just start him on solids, since he's 4 months old. I said I was concerned at to why he's not gaining with just breastmilk.  She said that he's growing and that's why he needs more food.  That was ridiculous.  Isn't that the case with every baby that's breastfeeding?  They are all growing right?  Anyway, I didn't get much help there.  At least he had gained 3 ounces since a week ago.  That is encouraging.  But I'm still unsure what to do about that.  I'm not exactly sure why his weight dropped like it did (maybe because he had been sick) and I want to make sure that he has enough sustenance to fight off this sickness and not lose again.  She told me to supplement. I'm just not sure that's necessary yet. 
Anyway, my husband got the prescription for antibiotics filled this evening.  We are planning to start him on it tomorrow.  He had such a good night last night that I was sure he was healed!  But he sounded bad again today.  Maybe tomorrow he'll be sounding better.  Otherwise we've decided to do what it takes to get him well.  Thank you for your prayers.  Oh...how can I give him acidophilus?  Should I put it in a bit of water and give it to him in a syringe or bottle?  I've never given it to a little baby before.  Also, do any of you know of herbs that I can give him in place of those drugs she prescribed?  I'm still lathering GOOT on him.
Blessings,
Jenny

Offline herbalmom

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 10:31:28 PM »
As far as
I want to thank you dear ladies for your wise and sensitive responses.  I truly appreciate it!  And I thank you for your prayers as well.  Sorry I haven't replied until now...it's been hard to get time on the computer lately.  Well, I took my baby to the doctor and she was concerned about his bronchitis.  She heard crackling and said that his bronchial tubes and lungs have mucus in them.  She's concerned that it will turn into pneumonia.  She was respectful of my desire to treat him naturally, but voiced her concern (a number of times). She prescribed amoxicillin, and 2 other drugs- Provental (which is used for asthma- to open up the airway, since he was wheezing a bit) and Oraped (a steriod to help reduce the swelling in the bronchial tubes).  Are any of you familiar with these drugs?  Do you know of herbs that have a similar effect?  I also was concerned about his weight and was disappointed in her "assesments."  First of all she immediately said I should just start him on solids, since he's 4 months old. I said I was concerned at to why he's not gaining with just breastmilk.  She said that he's growing and that's why he needs more food.  That was ridiculous.  Isn't that the case with every baby that's breastfeeding?  They are all growing right?  Anyway, I didn't get much help there.  At least he had gained 3 ounces since a week ago.  That is encouraging.  But I'm still unsure what to do about that.  I'm not exactly sure why his weight dropped like it did (maybe because he had been sick) and I want to make sure that he has enough sustenance to fight off this sickness and not lose again.  She told me to supplement. I'm just not sure that's necessary yet. 
Anyway, my husband got the prescription for antibiotics filled this evening.  We are planning to start him on it tomorrow.  He had such a good night last night that I was sure he was healed!  But he sounded bad again today.  Maybe tomorrow he'll be sounding better.  Otherwise we've decided to do what it takes to get him well.  Thank you for your prayers.  Oh...how can I give him acidophilus?  Should I put it in a bit of water and give it to him in a syringe or bottle?  I've never given it to a little baby before.  Also, do any of you know of herbs that I can give him in place of those drugs she prescribed?  I'm still lathering GOOT on him.
Blessings,
Jenny

As far as his weight, starting solids, & nursing- babies don't need solids at 4 months. If he gained 3oz in a week he is gaining so he's probably doing fine but if you think that you need to increase your milk supply there are threads on breast feeding that should help.

Check these threads for treatment ideas:
 
Help with lung infection
Bronchitis
oil of oregano, safe for children??
Oregano Oil Recommendation
"Brew"/Power Tonic
Help! Is there a natural replacement for an inhaler
Cold, Cough, Phlegm, Congestion & Sore Throat Remedies
Ultra 3 Immune 
cold-induced asthma

Some of the things talked about in the threads can't be given to a 4 month old (like super tonic) but you could take them & it would get to the baby through your milk.

Oreganol from North American Herb & Spice is the best thing I know of for bronchitis & pneumonia. The thread about children & Oreganol has dosages starting at 6 months & including nursing moms. Since he's 4 months a couple of ideas if you choose to use it for him would be to dilute it in more olive oil so it isn't as strong before giving it to him &/or adding it to GOOT or HIGHLY diluting it with alive or coconut oil & using it on his chest, back & feet just like you are doing with GOOT now.

You need to prayerfully consider your options & go with what you & DH think is best. The most important thing is to get him well. I hope that the threads mentioned here help you decide what to do. Keep us updated. HTH Blessings ~herbalmom
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 10:33:51 PM by herbalmom »

Offline healthybratt

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 05:47:25 AM »
Acidophilus can be sprinkled on the breast and sucked off during nursing.  You should consider taking them as well - couldn't hurt.  ;)
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Offline blessedmamadp

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 07:27:58 AM »
I would check about allergies.  When I was in HS, I babysat for a family that had a newborn baby girl.  Julia was born in Dec.  In January she had been hospitalized for pneumonia and the family had met their $10,000 deductible for the year already!

About the time the baby was 4-6 months old, they discovered she was allergic to dust.  I helped the mother in her weekly cleaning and this is what we did:

Every other week was a thorough cleaning of her roomwhich involved:
vacuuming and moving ALL baby room furniture
washing curtains and bed sheets
wiping down all furniture with a damp cloth, including the windows and doors - top to bottom

The other week she:
vacuumed without moving furniture
washed sheets

She also had a pretty thorough house cleaning routine for the baby too.

I'd recommend you get an allergy test done and go from there.

freshisbest

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2007, 02:57:31 AM »
You haven't mentioned a fever....could mommy have yeast issues that he's getting through the milk?

Offline JennyJoMama

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 11:11:10 AM »
Ok, so I've been giving my baby antibiotics since Sunday (3 days). He seems better than he was, although his cough still sounds bad.  But he's coughing much less often.   He seems fine other than the cough and a little runny nose.  I was wondering if I need to finish the antibiotics like they say, or if I can just keep him going on GOOT and slowly take him off the antibiotics?  They always say how important it is to finish the treatment completely or the sickness can return.  Would this still be true even if I had him on GOOT?  Also, I've heard that garlic is stronger than the strongest antibiotic.  If this is true, then why does it seem like the antibiotic works more quickly?  I was doing GOOT 4 times a day for a number of days before the antibiotic and he didn't seem to be getting better.  Can someone explain this to me?  I'm all about natural remedies and believe that God has provided these for our health.  I just want to understand better so that I'm not doubting myself and my attempts at natural healthcare. 

Offline dara

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2007, 12:15:53 PM »
I imagine that an oral antibiotic (in his tummy) might take effect faster than a little garlic getting in through his skin... ?

I would finish the antibiotic too, then start probiotics afterward. (If you give probiotics and antibiotics together they cancel eachother out)

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Offline Pennie

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2007, 05:02:25 AM »
Hello all.   I wrote on here last week that my daughter cut her finger really badly and we went to the ER she was sedated and it was stitched up.  I was concerned about how it looked so I took her to our primary yesterday and he said it looks good(considering)They perscribed Keeflex(antibiotic)for three days.  I have not had it  filled.  I have been giving her colloidol silver every day since and yesterday I started giving her some Olive leaf extract.  Yesterday her temp at the dr was 100.1 but was also that when we went into the ER.  I took it this morning and am not getting any fever but her right hand(hurt one)feels warmer than the left.  There is no oozing, swelling or redness but I am really torn as to wether I should just go ahead and fill the perscrip.  Would the CS and OL be as strong as the keflex?  We will be leaving tues the 2nd to move 1/2 way  across the country.  I could really use some "counsel" here.  I just don't know what to do.  She has never had antibiotics and I sure don't want to start now unless it is really needful.  I did try to fill it sunday night but of course they said I needed a different card which I didn't but nevertheless I didn't get it filled then but that was also b/f we saw the doc.  Would really appreciate some thoughts, advice whatever you have.   :)  Thanks.

cecac

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2007, 05:22:25 AM »
Well, I'd ask dh and we'd decide together.  If we did decide that it would be best to do the antibiotics, then I'd make sure I dosed the child with kefir, yogurt, or acidophilus every single day for about 10 days afterwards.

May the Lord give you peace in whichever decision you make,
Cara

Offline Pennie

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2007, 05:29:30 AM »
Well, I'd ask dh and we'd decide together.  If we did decide that it would be best to do the antibiotics, then I'd make sure I dosed the child with kefir, yogurt, or acidophilus every single day for about 10 days afterwards.

May the Lord give you peace in whichever decision you make,
Cara
Thank you. :)  Unfortunately he tends to just let me decide in these situations.  Mostly though I think he can see my concern of "what if" and says do what you think you need to to feel comfortable.  :)  Thanks again for responding.  Do you know anything about keflex?  Is it a very strong anti?  I know when we lived in Brazil when I was a kid we could just get that over the counter at the drug store.  Not sure if it was b/c we knew the druggist well or if that is just normal but I didn't know about anything natural or healthy then. 

Offline herbalmom

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2007, 05:38:48 AM »
Pennie- How much of the hand is warm & how warm is it? Do you have her hand wrapped up which would account for the extra warmth? Is it warmer at the wound itself than the surrounding area?

Personally, I have never given antibiotics for a cut, scrape, etc. I think years ago DH did take the antibiotics when he put a nail through 3 fingers with a nail gun  :o :o :o but he probably didn't need it & that was before we knew as much about herbs as I do now. We managed a self storage for 4 years since then & frequently got cut on metal, rocks etc during that time & DH works with cars now. In this house someone is always getting cut up & we have never needed a 'script antibiotic even when a wound does get infected.   

A 'script for an antibiotic for only 3 days when most antibiotic rounds are 10 days long sounds more like justifying your Dr's visit than anything IMO esp since the wound won't be healed in 3 days & will still be open to infection. Olive leaf is antibiotic & a potent immune stimulant & colloidal silver is a potent antibiotic as well. If it gets worse you could always give her Grapefruit Seed Extract (GSE) which is a potent antibiotic & works on antibiotic resistant bacteria even.

So that's my .02 on it. HTH

BTW- my DH is the same about leaving it up to me to choose treatment. He knows that I have researched what I'm doing & trusts my judgement.

Blessings ~herbalmom

Offline Pennie

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2007, 05:43:16 AM »
well, all that does make me feel better.  I have all three of those on hand.  I just felt her hands again and it doesn't seem to be any warmer than the other now.  We have been keeping it wrapped but doc yesterday said it doesn't need to be anymore.  But this morning she asked me to wrap it again.  I did just very lightly.  It is pretty ugly looking so I think she just doens't like to see it.  Thanks again. 

Offline SarahK

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2007, 05:48:31 AM »
If it was me & we were traveling soon & $$ was not an issue, I would fill the Rx as a 'just in case'.  Then I would keep hitting the area hard for infection prevention.  

Keflex's main 'attraction point' is that it's only a 2x a day med.  That made it popular with parents of young children.  In my mind, that would indicate a longer duration medication - slower release or something like that - because the constant level of the antibiotic is what consistantly 'gets' the infecting agent.  But I'm not familiar with dosing durations so I can't say if 3 days is a normal length for this one.  Your pharmacist will know - I would ask that when I went to go get it.  If it seemed 'short' to them, I would put that note in the 'con' column in my listing of pors & cons of the whole anticiotic decision this time.

In healing, it is normal for the sight to be a bit warmer than the rest of the tissues - but not a lot warmer.  INfection fighting is going aon anyway and you want that.  Healing is going on, too.  You are gonna have to decide how much heat is too much...  Not an easy one to make - but it's doable.  

Sarah K
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Offline BJ_BOBBI_JO

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2007, 05:49:50 AM »
SC--- I know your above post was from a while back but how right it is. If only we could all realize that there is both good and bad in the medical and natural healing worlds and how we can freely choose to utilize whichever of the good we feel is best for our kids.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cant imagine if I had not allowed them to put ear tubes in my kids ears. She had tons of ear infections. 1-2 every months and it was not from yeast, it is just because since the beginning of time babies have been born with eustation  tubes that are bent wrongly so that bacteria easily gathers in it and attacks. That is why many kids became death back in the old days because they did not have ways to fix the problem. For each child it is differant. And if it had been yeast then I wold have treated the yeast and not done the ear tubes.

Babies and young kids can go down hill real fast. Like in just a few hours. I think that if we have done all that we know to do and still the baby does not get better then why not go to the Doctor and use what he/she gives you? Babies also dehydrate real fast. It would  be differant if a perent took their kids to the doc for every little thing but when it is getting serious and no natural methods are helping then  I would certainly be taking the kids to the doc and I would even allow them to give my baby antibiotcs if it came down to that but I would try to use whatever herbal methods 1st in hopes that antibiotics would not be needed.




cecac

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2007, 10:16:09 AM »
Pennie,

If it were left up to me, I'd do what Sarah K suggested and have the antibiotic on hand.  I might would just go ahead and give it to dd and then get in the good stuff after the move. 

The thing is, with all the stress you're in right now, dd might get tired, or your eating and sleeping habits may not be normal with the move.  I've had children get ill just from things such as this.  So, she may be fine now but then need a little extra boost for healing after the move, or during it.

I'm with you wondering about that three day antibiotic.  The pharmicist likely could supply the needed information, but so could a call to your doctor's nurse.  If you don't like what you hear, could you request something different?

HTH,
Cara

Offline stebs7

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2007, 10:28:13 AM »
I have used Bee Propolis tincture on all kinds of infections (burn infection, infection after operations, bad wounds, phlebitis, leg ulcers, etc, etc.).  It really works miraculously because propolis kills bacteria - and will even get to it below the skin.  I just wet a gauze pad with it and cover the wound with it over night and it usually only takes a day or two.  You could also put a few drops in some juice and give it orally as well.  We make our own, so can't tell you where to get it from.

Blessings from Poland, Nancy S

Offline MQM

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Re: Should I resort to antibiotics?
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2007, 04:50:50 PM »
I have used Bee Propolis tincture ...  We make our own, so can't tell you where to get it from.

Well this is a little late, but for anyone wondering where it can be found... I found Bee Propolis at my local Vitamin Shoppe, www.vitaminshoppe.com.  It's from Y.S. Organic Bee Farms.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I won't ask here, but I do have some specific questions about your experience with propolis, stebs7.  I'm pretty sure--I'll look later--that there are other threads on this topic and I will check them out to see if you have posted your experience with it there or maybe I'll PM you.  Thanks for posting your info. ;)

On another note... for a puncture wound on my husband that we didn't think was deep enough to require stitches, we decided to experiment with herbs.  He is cautious about natural remedies, so I let him decide what he wanted to do and we ended up using goldenseal/echinacea complex and cayenne powder--we don't have fresh/dried herbs in our household (yet), unfortunately.  We just opened up the capsules and sprinkled them directly onto the wound after soaking it in Pau D'arco tea and/or epsom salts (OUCH!  :o  But it really did the trick!).  It healed rather quickly with no infection.