WellTellMe

Remedies & Therapies => About the Body => Reproductive => : Bobbie April 05, 2006, 05:53:00 AM

: All About Birth Control
: Bobbie April 05, 2006, 05:53:00 AM
Hi all -

I am a widowed mom of a four year old boy and am getting married this summer and need to look into birth control options.  I am trying to stay neutral about having more children and want to leave it in God's hands but honestly I'm not sure I would like to have more and even if I did I don't want them immediately after marriage.  My husband to be is open to children or not but also feels to wait would be better.  We are praying about whether birth control is right for us and if so what kind.  I feel uneasy about birth control pills - I am trying to eat/live organically - naturally so birth control pills seems very unnatural.  As do other contraceptives.  I guess I am just looking for more natural methods of family planning and maybe even any scriptural guidance around family planning.  Is it using wisdom to plan or is it a lack of faith?  (I know thats probably a more subjective question then objective!)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama April 05, 2006, 06:36:40 AM
I'm so glad you brought this up!  My husband and I are on #4 and we are thinking about taking a break after this one because I am starting to feel my limits.  We still haven't found our solution, but we have sure ruled out a bunch, so I can't wait to hear if there is anything out there I haven't heard about yet.  Two things worth sharing:  Natural Family Planning (AKA the Rhythm Method) is very effective for "regular" women, and it's free.  Also, please be aware that there is a HUGE difference between birth control and contraception.  Many doctors and herbalists (except, maybe the Christian ones) neglect to tell their patients this and it can be very emotionally painful to find out too late.  Please consider that when looking into your options.  ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl April 05, 2006, 08:45:20 AM
Hi ladies,
I was wondering when this touchy topic would come up!  ::)

We do have a planning method that is working, but we are still in testing phase  :D  It is called Neem oil.

My thoughts:
We wanted to make sure there was no chance of killing a fertilized egg. In other words, we wanted to prevent conception, not destroy it. So - neem as a vaginal cream didn't seem right, as it is apparently "abortive." However, from what have read, it appears that when the man takes neem orally, his sperm don't develop "strong enough" to pierce the egg. So conception never takes place.

Neem (read the articles) is used to cure sexually transmitted diseases, vaginal infections, malaria, etc... it has no known negative side effects. It has been used for hundreds (possibly thousands) of years as a folk medicine in India.

We want to have as many children as we can without cheating any of the already existing kids out of attention, training, etc... so timing is a good thing, in our opinion. Two years in between seems like time for me to get physically recovered, and the youngest to become a "kid."

So we've been trying the Neem, taken orally by the man - for over a year now. There have been no negative side-effects, and no change in libido.

We have also kept to the timing method though, obstaining during ovulation as much as we can tell (sometimes I'm not totally sure???). There is a really great booklet about timing that was made for educating people in third world countries. It's called Love & Fertility by Mercedes Arzu Wilson. The website is http://www.familyplanning.net  I believe this is what Petrimama was referring to???
Family Planning Method worked for the space (two years) between our first two children. The third child was a surprise because I didn't know I had started ovulating. Thanks to Supermom, the third PG was just great, anyway!
We began the neem oil after the third child was born. She is now 19 months old. I've had some severe liver/gallbladder problems due to Malaria in the past, and so we are waiting a little longer this time to make sure I'm all cleaned out and ready for #4.

We intend to put the Neem to the test in a year or so, to see if it works like they say it does.

There is so little research done (at least in America) on Neem as a contraceptive, I can't honestly recommend it, or even tell you what works - I just don't know.

I love kids - and I love the perfect timing and preparation for each precious one.

Rebekah

http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/articles/Herbal/thorn48.htm (neem as an herb)

http://www.sisterzeus.com/neem.html (neem as a contraceptive)

"Lots of research has been done in India in regards to neem and its contraceptive effects. It seems to have several contraceptive applications, as spermacide and an oral contraceptive for men, and two other options which would only be available through qualified medical research personal at this time. Neem provides men with an alternative oral contraceptive option, Neem Leaf tablets.
Research conducted on 20 married soldiers from the Indian Army over the course of one year showed that a daily oral dose of several drops of neem seed oil placed in gelatin capsules prevented pregnancy in each of the wives during the period of the study. The effect took 6 weeks to become 100% effective. The effects were reversed within 6 weeks after subjects discontinued taking the capsules. During the study, none of the men experienced any negative side effects and retained their normal capabilities and desires. (Vietmeyer, 1992). Neem is currently being used in India for contraceptive purposes for both men (orally) and women (as a spermacide). Currently, I personally don't know any one taking neem for contraceptive uses." ( This excerpt came from the sisterzeus.com site )
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Bobbie April 05, 2006, 09:16:29 AM
Thank you both!  Since my initial posting I had looked online and found the website above and will download the book Love & Fertility.  I also found a website http://ccli.org/ (ftp://http://ccli.org/) that has a more indepth course on Natural Family Planning - tracking signs and taking temps.  Thanks for the tip on Neem - I will look into it more.  My future hubby just said last night, "isn't there something I could take orally?"  And I sort of chuckled inside thinking that was crazy.....but of course as usual he was on to something  ;)

Bobbie
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Tanya in TX April 05, 2006, 09:28:49 AM
I wanted to respond to this post because I totally understand your feelings, AND those several others mentioned---being at your limit, feeling overwhelmed, wanting to maintain good health between pregnancies.....all VALID concerns!

One book I LOVE LOVE LOVE for learning about reading your own body's signals is "Taking Charge of Your Fertility", by Toni Weschler. It is about $25, I think, and you can find it at Amazon or lots of other places. I first got it at the library before I decided I had to have my own as a resource!  It is a fantastic resource on how God made our bodies to function; the author is a femininist, but she seems to be very 'pro' life and 'pro' pregnancy.  It is for those wanting to conceive, or those wanting to avoid it without chemical intervention.  I cannot recommend it highly enough!  She also has software available so you can chart all your temps, cervical fluids, etc on your computer, and print out specific info, etc. It is very cool!

Another resource I highly recommend for the spiritual aspect to this question is Nancy Campbell's book "Be Fruitful and Multiply".  It is a wonderful resource for what the Bible says on this topic, and really opened our eyes to some things!  You can find this book through the Above Rubies website, or also from the Vision Forum website, as well as the usual places to order books used, etc.

Hope this helps!  Just some additional food for thought!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis April 05, 2006, 10:05:40 AM
Hey ya'll. I was just sitting down to ask this same question when I saw the post.  :D I have found a device that I was wondering if any one has used before. My husband has reached his limit for now with our five. The device  is called Lady-comp. It requires you to take your temp every morning and by that it can tell when you are fertile. I will put the link in this post. I'm planning to try it because I am allergic to BC and both me and my husband don't think we ought to do anything permanent.

http://naturalbirthcontrol.com/index.php
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Helen April 06, 2006, 01:31:01 PM
wow the neem thing could be exciting, I was on the pill for the first 6 months after we were married, and I was miserable , I didnt have low libido I had NO libido, I was sick , nausuas all the time, I finally quit taking it and then after found out some stuff about it that I would not take it at all anymore, but I have tried everything, and I am sick of dealing with it so much, hubby is in charge of birth control right now, and ofcourse that  works, I would be so glad for a natural BC, where do i get the neem for hubby to take?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mamasboys April 07, 2006, 04:40:19 AM
My husband and I actually took a class for Natural Family Planning at a Catholic Church when we were first married.   It's amazing how comfortable you can get talking about 'mucous' with complete strangers!  :D
NFP is tracking your fertile signs, taking your temperature and charting all your signs and abstaining (or in our case using a condom) during your fertile time. 
This worked just fine until I got lazy tracking my signs.  Thus, Joshua.  Another midnight interlude gave us William  8)  Don't get me wrong, I loved the surprise of finding out we were pregnant but I also liked planning our third and am getting really excited about the fourth one on the way....heh! 
I hope I'm not giving you the impression that NFP doesn't work, you just have to be very diligent about tracking your signs and then it's basically foolproof!  I got the audio tape from Focus on the Family by Mercedes Arzu Wilson and it was very good.  At the time we were adamant about not conceiving so we were a little nervous.  We've basically relied on condoms for the past couple of years but as that didn't even work this last time....
Well, I guess what I'm getting as is this:  God is the author of life.  I think we all have a responsibility to plan our families as well as space our children but at the same time, God tends to win out in the end.  And I'm thrilled that He does.  A few days ago I was crying because we were having another one and now I am leaping for joy (thank you for those who have been praying for me!) that God has chosen to bless us yet again.
Now I'll start the debate:  I would be interested in any thoughts on having hubby 'snipped'.  We've talked about this in the past and just don't know if doing something permanent is not trusting God or if it is a responsible thing to do if we feel like we are finished having any more children.  We've researched the possible link between prostate cancer and vasectomies and have basically come to the conclusion that there is little to no link between the two.
Any thoughts??
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl April 07, 2006, 07:27:34 AM
wow the neem thing could be exciting, I was on the pill for the first 6 months after we were married, and I was miserable , I didnt have low libido I had NO libido, I was sick , nausuas all the time, I finally quit taking it and then after found out some stuff about it that I would not take it at all anymore, but I have tried everything, and I am sick of dealing with it so much, hubby is in charge of birth control right now, and ofcourse that  works, I would be so glad for a natural BC, where do i get the neem for hubby to take?


This is the oil we buy. My hubby puts several drops in a capsule, tops it off with a few drops of water, closes the capsule, and takes it with water each night. It stinks and tastes a little like very strong oregano, so you want to make sure to get the drops IN the capsule  :P

I've never heard of anyone else (in America) doing this... so we are pioneers in experimenting with this herb. Just beware of that!

http://www.banyan-botanicals.com/prodinfo.asp?number=3313&variation=&aitem=14&mitem=23
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Gabe Rising April 07, 2006, 06:09:17 PM
Actually, we may just have found a better source as they have a couple very interesting products: OrganixSouth.com, and I have come across a lot of information on the subject. I will post it in a new thread as I get the chance.

--gabe
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lewisquiverfull April 08, 2006, 03:35:28 AM
This is great, my first son was not planned, he just happened, then I got on bc for a few months, then my first daughter came along. After my second daughter, I was still very young and didn't know I could make my own disicions I got an IUD when my lovely dr suggested it. BAD mistake. I had it for 3 years and my husband decided that we needed to look into something natural. Well, we took the natural family planning classes just like mamasboys. We loved the classes, and learned alot. We are not Catholic, but they invited us in anyway. We got a book in the class called The Art of Natural Family Planning by Kippley. Excellent book. It gives all the information to do the planning, and also chapters on miscarriage, fertility after pregnancy, and many other things. Well, after doing that for 2 more babies, my husband suggested we "give it to God" completely. I am 26 and God has blessed us very well in the fertility field. That means there could be 15 more babies before I am completely finished. Uh... Well, my faith has definitely been put on a growth spurt. I don' t really know how long we will go "free" to God, and I would probably feel guilty if I did do something, but I still have reservations in the back of my mind on WHAT are we going to do??? I would love a great answer on this too!! Also, another book I came upon is called A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: TruthSeeker April 08, 2006, 06:58:09 PM
Hubby and I have also "given it to God".  We have a 3 year old and an 8 month old so far.  I have a 19 year old and 16 year old from previous marriage.  I would like to have as many as the Lord will give me, but I'm already 39 years old.  Then I have the whole "advanced maternal age" thing to think about.  You know, Down Syndrome, etc.  I believe all children are a gift from God.  I love big families.  What a blessing!  If you have 15 more children than you have 15 more chances to raise warriors for Christ.  Imagine what 15 more warriors can do for the Kingdom! 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Youthful One April 08, 2006, 09:06:31 PM
I started reading this thread with just the first post a few days ago, and didn't get a chance to respond until now - WOW!  I'm so glad I waited so I could see some of these other great posts!

Hubby and I also have 'given it to God'.  I have long been aware that GOD plans each child.  He obviously allows us a bit of 'control', but ultimately - it's always God's choice.  I have proof of this in both directions.

Unfortunately, I gave God many opportunities to bless me with child prior to marriage - prior to my giving my life to God.  I was young, foolish and careless, and not once got pregnant.  (direction #1)

When I was engaged to my hubby, I got on BC (the pill), but got pregnant despite it as soon as we were married. (direction #2)   Hubby and I both hated the pill with it's ill effects.  So we intended to use family planning, as I have a regular cycle.  But, baby boy #2 came before my cycle reappeared after baby boy #1!

We then discovered a great help for family planning: ovulation calendar (for the computer). 
Here's the website: www.ovulation-calendar.com
It not only helps us NOT conceive, it helped us to conceive, as my story continues:

We used ovulation calendar and didn't conceive for awhile (whew! my longest break yet), and then we decided we'd really like to try for a girl.  Using the timing suggestions of ovulation calendar, we attempted to conceive for about 3 months, with no luck. (direction #1, again)  We took a break (so I wouldn't be HUGE with baby as a bridesmaid in a wedding), and tried again 6 months later.  We conceived right away (first try).  AND YES, IT'S A GIRL!  (It sure appears that the timing thing worked to get a girl- it may have- but I just tell people that God liked our idea.) ;)

Now, we have proven that the ovulation calendar worked to NOT conceive and also to conceive.  But wait...

We continued to use ovulation calendar as FP help with great success - until my daughter was 14 months, and SURPRISE!  Somehow, we conceived completely out of timing.  (direction #2, again)  I've gone over the details many times, and it doesn't add up.  GOD wanted our next boy, and THAT was the time He wanted him.  It took me a long time to reconcile that one with God, as I hate being pregnant and I was more sick than ever with that pregnancy.

We still use ovulation calendar.  We still enjoy it and it works well for us, when we pay attention to it (hence the current 'surprise' growing in my belly). :D

But again, I must say, ultimately it appears to me it is GOD's choice for timing.

Have we considered more 'permanent' options? 
Hubby? -NEVER!  Me? - only wishing hubby would when I was surprised with #4 ;D

Oh, and about the vasectomy - I know they've improved over the years, but a couple in their 50's in my church had a vasectomy over 10 years ago and just had a baby last year.  It baffled the doctors.  God's still in control.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt April 09, 2006, 01:52:19 PM
Now I'll start the debate:  I would be interested in any thoughts on having hubby 'snipped'.  We've talked about this in the past and just don't know if doing something permanent is not trusting God or if it is a responsible thing to do if we feel like we are finished having any more children.  We've researched the possible link between prostate cancer and vasectomies and have basically come to the conclusion that there is little to no link between the two.
Any thoughts??

My husband and I decided that my third pregnancy was too hard on my old, tired body (mostly hubby looking out for me) and decided that one of us was going to get "snipped".  Most research supports it's safer and less invasive for men than women, but...my story is 3 kids - 3 C-sections and since C-sections tend to be ...mmmmm... a tad bit invasive, I got nominated to be the "snipee".  I've had no real complications that I'm aware of.  I think my first few menstrual cycles were difficult, but this was probably due to the past 10 years taking oral contraceptives(which I would NEVER recommend for so many reasons) in between kids 1,2 and 3.

I guess in my case, leaving it up to God, was leaving it up to hubby.  He ultimately decided this one for me.  I do sometimes wish I could have more babies, but...the 3 I have are so full of variety, life and challenges.  I think I have all I can handle for now.   :P
: Re: All About Birth Control
: advancewithcourage April 12, 2006, 01:15:00 PM
I am currently in the 3rd mo. of my 9th pregnancy and my hubby is planning on getting snipped. We have gotten some criticism for this but I am certain my hubby has my best interests in mind due to my continual health problems. I had pulmonary blood clot, CFIDS, celiac disease and chonic digestive problems. I have had two children with major birth defects (one deceased) and two second trimester miscarraiges.

At one time, we wanted to have as many children as possible and my health just continues to go downhill at times and rarely improves despite eating high quality food, avoiding all junk foods, juicing etc. Hubby does not want to raise his children alone and feels it would be very irresponsible to continue to impregnate me.

We have tried ovulation  method and I am pregnant again. I had no preovulatory mucus signs and ovulated on day 9 of my cycle. I have been experiencing a renewal of previously overcome health issues since becoming pregnant. I am thankful for this little blessing in my womb and I love him/her already, but I agree with my husband that it is time to do somethng permanent since nothing short of abstinence seems to be effective for me. He just does not feel like my tired and inching toward 40 bod can take it anymore. 

So, I say all this to say that we must be careful to allow our husbands to wisely make these decisions for us and not resist them. Trusting God to lead through them. Also, we must not judge others when they do choose permanent options. And we must not judge those who choose to have very large families. God calls different families to different things.

My 1st child died shortly after birth and I was so determined to have all the children God would give me after that. But God has chosen that my lot in life should be different and shoud include some health issues that I have struggled to overcome despite my best efforts at nutrition and natural healing.

My goal is to be the best mom I can to my 6 children and be alive (Lord willing) to see each of them grow up to serve the Lord wholeheartedly.

BTW, the neem oil sounds fascinating. I don't think we would have the courage to try it at this point, but I think it may be a great option for so many of us out there.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie April 13, 2006, 03:29:58 AM
hi Advance, it was so good to read your story.  i have had some of the same emotions and feelings as you.  my hubby has been suggesting getting snipped for years (along with all of our parents/relatives and perfect strangers!)  he has been concerned also about my health problems, though they are not as serious as some of yours.  though he doesn't want to do it if i'm not ready.  i don't know why i just have this almost insatiable urge for babies.  my emotions and hormones are not fun for the first few months after the birth, mostly because of the stress of having very fussy babies and my own digestive problems.  my friend Laurie (who i think has 15 children, just recently added one more) is a distributor for GNLD products and may be able to help you regain your health more rapidly after your pregnancy or even stay healthy during the pregnancy.  i thought i would suggest it because she has helped a lot of people with some of the problems you mentioned.  i know my digestive problems (food allergies) have gotten worse after each pregnancy of the last 4.  anyway i have an article i could email you if you are interested and put you in touch with her.  she is very nice and no pressure, just thought it might help.  i hope and pray you have a healthy pregnancy.  don't know if you have read the posts on it, but it might do you good to try Supermom! (just another option) ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: bizymum April 13, 2006, 06:31:14 AM
My husband has pretty much made the same decision.  I'm 2 1/2 along in my 5th pregancy and the moment we found out he started talking about making a dr appt.  However, we are not against having more children, he just doesn't want me pregnant again (after this).  I've got health issues as well.  So we've already started talking about adoption, which is something we had talked about before we were married, but have been so busy having babies since then that we hadn't actually done it.  We're praying for God's clear direction on timing and so forth.  But that is definately an option for those who would want more children.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: advancewithcourage April 13, 2006, 10:49:35 AM
Hello fivewittletids,
Yes, I think it is best to avoid legalism on these issues and for each husband to make the decision in his families best interests. I must say that my current pregnancy is draining me beyond all that I could have imagined. I just don't remember being so tired before in my other pregnancies. When I was pregnant with number 5 my dad actually accused my husband of killing me! Can you imagine that! I was in the throes of CFIDS at the time though.

I would be interested in looking at the products your friiend has. Website? I am not sure how to go about getting my e-mail address to you. Could the moderators get it to you? I give my permission for them to do so. I would not want to post it here online. I would be interested in talking with you since we have similar family sizes and also deal with food alllergies and digestive issues. Perhaps we can share what we have learned and help one another.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt April 13, 2006, 12:35:28 PM
I am not sure how to go about getting my e-mail address to you. Could the moderators get it to you? I give my permission for them to do so. I would not want to post it here online. I would be interested in talking with you since we have similar family sizes and also deal with food alllergies and digestive issues. Perhaps we can share what we have learned and help one another.

Check this thread. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php?topic=181.msg1061#msg1061)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Bethany April 19, 2006, 01:28:50 PM
I don't know if anyone knows the answer, but I've had a question about neem. The information I read indicated it worked by disabling the sperm and thereby inhibiting it from reaching the ovum. My question is, what if the sperm is "disabled," yet does end up reaching an ovum. Is there an increased risk of birth defects, or is it an "all or nothing" situation? If any more of you end up using neem, I would love to hear about your results. I am a student midwife, and would love to have a safe, effective, convenient, 100% non-abortifacient method of contraception to recommend.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl April 19, 2006, 07:16:14 PM
We had the same question, but could find no recorded occurance of this happening.

 I haven't heard of anyone in the US doing research on neem as a contraceptive. It has been used for centuries in India, and none of the research we've read has linked birth defects/problems with the use of neem as a contraceptive. But, as you said, it is still a question that should be clearly answered one way or another. I'd love to talk to a doctor from India who has more experience and research in this subject.

We have been using neem as a contraceptive for over a year now.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama April 20, 2006, 04:16:48 AM
I happen to know an internist from India.  I haven't spoken to him in years (he is the father of a friend from high school) but he lives down the street from my mom.  I know he is one of the dying breed of internests who still delivers babies, so he may have some info on this or be able to steer us in the right direction.  Risk of birth defects or possible miscarriage were my immediate concerns, too, but since I'm not in need of BC right now I never bothered to look into it.  I'll let you know IF I turn anything up.   ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kristin_19_78 April 25, 2006, 03:01:28 PM
My husband and I are about to have number three and he says we're done. We discussed BC and permanent options, and after much deliberation he agreed to get snipped. I hate BC pills! No desire! And I'm not the slightest bit interested in any other options for women. My 28 year old girlfriend was just told by her Dr.. three weeks ago that she is pre-menopausal, probably bc she got her tubes tied! Uh!  :'( I said,"Did you know that was one of the side-effects?" and she said "yes"  I say  NO THANK YOU!)
So I thought hubby and I had made the right decision, until I spoke to my midwife. She and her husband had three children before his vasectomy. Then they chose to get a reversal and are now pregnant with their 6th! She told me how a man's chances of developing prostate cancer increases dramatically after getting snipped and that out of the three other men in her family that have had the procedure done, those statistics are apparently VERY accurate. Only 3 years after her uncle had it done, he was going in for radiation. And secondly, among her friends whose husbands have had it done, they complain that their husbands have lost interest. In my opinion, I think it is more mental than physical for a man, but what do I know? I think many men may feel less manly.
I'm just glad we didn't go through with it already. We're going to try the neem oil and I'm going to track my cycles when they return...It just seems like when ever we mess with God's creation, we mess things up. I would hate to become pregnant again after my husband has expressed his desire not to, but we have talked about the risks and no longer feel it is worth it. I'm going to do some more research  on the subject, I just wanted to share that info bc so often when comparing the female procedure to the male procedure...all we hear is how much easier it is for the man. "A quick office procedure, one stitch, snip snip, no biggy" but we don't hear about the down side.
Whatever you do, pray on it and may you be blessed!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: natural May 10, 2006, 01:39:42 PM
"NFP is tracking your fertile signs, taking your temperature and charting all your signs and abstaining (or in our case using a condom) during your fertile time."  mamasboys

Wow We were told by our NFP instructor, that condoms, jellies, etc. were NOT natural and therefore by using them we were no longer using Natural Family Planning. This made sense to me.

We decided to use the Natural Family Planning Method three years ago after the birth of our 3rd son. A Catholic affiliated woman gave meetings at the hospital. I took classes several times and found that the beginning was difficult to get ourselves "trained". It required many absitant days but it truly taught us self control. Now it is so free. The communication level between us is wonderful. And the days we can use are so much enjoyable and fulfilling because we had to wait. I have always been dead-on regular so maybe that is why it has been so successful for us. BUT I also am VERY diligent in my charting everynight and that helps too. It all depends on how much you do or don't want to have kids, but you have to make up your mind BEFORE the "heat of the moment"...Suddenly, at times another child just doesn't seem like such a bad idea :o  oops :-[

--Sister Sandra
: Re: All About Birth Control
: BlessedWith4 May 10, 2006, 01:57:46 PM
I do believe that I agree with Sandra...It seems as though Natural Family Planning is about as natural as you can get! :D When me and Corey first got married, I was on BC pills (my then-OB put me on BC pills when I was 16 because of ruptured cysts and irregular periods I was having).! It did regulate my cycles and help with the ovarian cysts, but made me feel awful. I also got pregnant and had a miscarriage in those first early months after getting married, and I always felt that those BC pills were to blame. I will never get over the guilt I carry with that. Needless to say, I threw out the pills and declared to never use them again...and we relied heavily on condoms. Then I started reading about how condoms can cause different types of cancers, so that made me nervous about those, and I began to try to learn more about NFP. This is something that women have been doing for YEARS as far as checking your CM, etc. This is what we did in the 4 years between our two sons, so it seemed to work very well for us.

I use a website called Fertility Friend (http://www.fertilityfriend.com), and you can use it to aid conception or to help prevent it in the first place (by watching your body signs, etc.). It's free to join up, so I totally recommend checking it out.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Maria/NHM May 10, 2006, 02:10:40 PM
Then I started reading about how condoms can cause different types of cancer

I've never heard that. Do you happen to remember where you go your information?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: BlessedWith4 May 10, 2006, 02:14:06 PM
Then I started reading about how condoms can cause different types of cancer

I've never heard that. Do you happen to remember where you go your information?

Maria

Oh, good question! Let's see...it was a few years ago when I was reading that. I'll try to find that out for you! :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama May 10, 2006, 02:29:32 PM
Wow We were told by our NFP instructor, that condoms, jellies, etc. were NOT natural and therefore by using them we were no longer using Natural Family Planning. This made sense to me.

  Many people prefer to call Natural Family Planning the "Rhythm Method" because then it does not rule out using artificial means when the cycle does not permit "natural" intercourse.  I understand your points about waiting making the joining sweeter, and if you and your husband agree that going totally natural is best for your marriage, then I congratulate you on finding a solution to a very trying dilemma.  (I await the day when we come to such a happy solution!)
  However, many would feel deprived if sex were off limits for at least 1/3 of every month and this feeling of deprivation could lead to temptation.  (1Cr 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.)  Especially considering that this day in age many travel frequently for work, people dress in less than modest fashion, etc., or simply one or both spouses is not enthusiastic about the limits,  I could understand why many would prefer to use a combo method.
   Being that the woman you dealt with was Catholic, I believe there was likely a religious  reason behind her statement that natural means no intervention.  I spent years in Catholic church and school, including a Catholic version of sex education classes as a teen.  Keep in mind, this was 7 years ago, so things may have changed, but at that time we were taught that to do anything to either a man or woman's body to prevent pregnancy or birth was sinful.  (Chemical, barrier & abortion methods were all included.)  However, for Catholics, abstinence, even within the confines of marriage is always acceptable because there is nothing unnatural about not having sex.  (I guess sometimes that's true, but not always! ;))  For this reason the Catholic Church is one of the biggest promotors of natural family planning and the biggest educator on it's prooven effectiveness.  However, obviously, the education they provide does tend to follow the concept that no intervention should be used.
  I hope that made some sense and shed some light on how different people can be using methods that often go by the same name in very different ways.  (Both very effectively, too!)                         ~Layla
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mishy May 10, 2006, 02:43:15 PM
I agree with you Layla.  I bought the NFP manual before my hubby and I married and we used it effectively but with condoms during the fertile times.  The non-condom approach is a Catholic belief. 
If you are using the NFP method, after doing for a year or less (if you are regular) you won't even need to take your temp.  My days were consistent for when I was fertile.  So if anyone out there is not yet married, you can start 6 mos before and learn your schedule.  There are quite a few days in there that you are possibly fertile, so abstinence wasn't in my husbands best interest!!!  ;)
Just made sure your quiverfull is full of arrows that are straight, true, honest, sharp.... and not just a "full quiver"
 :)

: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthyinOhio May 10, 2006, 03:04:36 PM
This is a subject that I know too well about: VASECTOMIES.  A word from myself and my husband,  DON'T DON'T AND DON'T DO IT!!!!!  It was such a horror to find out all of the awful complications that arise from the surgery itself.  Increased prostate cancer, increase arteriosclerosis(heart attacks),  damage to the vas deferens, body's immune system attacks itself for having to fight and attack residual sperm all the time.
My husband wanted the surgery.  I didn't.  I cried and prayed, but he got it done.  He had post vasectomy pain for a long time.  He admits, he just didn't trust God to provide for more.  I prayed for three years that God would change his heart and in November of last year he had his reversal.  God does answer prayer.  Only, the surgery didn't take and there is a build up of scar tissue that is blocking the sperm, so the doctor says we will need another surgery if we want more kids. :-[
Talk about devastating!  We are still paying on the loan for the first one and now they want to do another one!
A couple of good books about birth control and letting God plan your family are:  Does birth control pill cause abortions?  by Randy Alcorn(by the way, it does)  and A full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess.
We were told by men in the church that the Bible does not say biblically whether a man or woman should "get fixed".  We were wrong.  Well, I am now aloud to say, my husband was wrong!   :)
If you have to cause hubby says so, then do it and pray like crazy!  God answered my prayer, he will answer yours.
It just breaks my heart to think of people fixing themselves, when I would do anything to have another baby, and can't.  I am not judging anyone, just stop and think before you do a drastic thing.
Natural family planning and spacing is good!  There are a lot of already good reccomended books and herbs on that.  Good luck and I hope I have helped one person to decide not on a vasectomy.
With love,'
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt May 10, 2006, 03:04:58 PM
I don't have to worry about this any more personally but I've been following this thread and I thought I would mention, I have a Catholic (semi-practicing) friend who uses the ovulation method which checks the condition of the cervix daily.  She was able to pin-point to the day and conceive both of her children with this method.  She said it worked for birth control as well, she just got tired of checking every day so she reverted to oral contraceptives (this is the "semi" part).  She also monintored her temp along with the cervix check and she said the temp was not even half as accurate.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: kjmsmum May 11, 2006, 09:44:23 AM
I just thought I'd  add my 2 cents worth ... I'm possibly pg  ??? with my 4th baby - this will make 4 c-sections in just under 4 years.  I have really tried for the last 6 years to understand the "taking care of my body" vs "faith in God" issue.... and this is my personal take (I don't want to condemn anyone else for the way they do it, just wanted to share our thoughts)
My 2nd baby was born 53 weeks after the first - a surprise as I was exclusively breastfeeding. After no.2 we were concerned about my body healing (2 c-sections). We had found out that c-section scars typically heal 90% in the first 90 days so for the first 3 months we did use condoms but I have to say that in my heart I wondered about whether I was truly trusting God. Actually we quit using them before the 3 month mark as both my husband and I wanted to open ourselves up to trusting God. So no 3 came along (a 20 month gap this time)
and we decided not to use anything but leave it in God's hands. He's 7 months old now...
I do struggle with trusting God sometimes, but several things encourage me - The first is the thought that babies don't just suddenly drop into my life. God gives me time to adjust to the thought and to learn to organise my life sufficiently to where when the baby arrives I can cope (with plenty of His grace:) And know that I am teribly disorganised in general - getting better every baby:)  I am also blessed to find all these helpful resources, especially training and spirulina!!! And blessed by great pregnancies!!!!!
I try to keep in mind that I am dealing with the eternal - and God will be asking me about my children's hearts and attitudes, etc not how clean my house is or how fancy the meals are!  I am very selfish - and I would love to have more time for myself, more space, more money etc, even just take a walk by myself!! but I also truly desire to die to myself - and what better way than serving my husband and kids? God has a reason for blessing me with these children and I want to open myself to His will and trust to His grace to get me through.
I am thankful to be able to rest in my husband also as we share the desire to let God order our family, and to provide for us. My testimony is He has blessed us!!!! We're not rich but "Better a dinner of herbs where love is..."  :D I don't know what the future holds - but I want to learn to trust God more in every area of life.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Tina May 11, 2006, 11:05:18 AM
I hope my story can help someone else. As a blood bought, spirit filled, believer in Jesus Christ I know that you have to walk in the Spirit and ask God to supply all your answers.
  I had 2 children and 3 miscarriages when I realized that I cannot control whether these babies are born or not, so why am trying to control if and when I get pg. I had 5 more children and no more miscarriages since. I read Pride's ( and others) ideas till there wasn't anything left to read. I was full quiver all the way. My hubby on the other hand wasn't and would use condoms, sometimes, and I thought he was disobedient. He was happy with the children we had and voiced that they were enough. But he never talked of being snipped. He just went with the flow.
 I was on bed rest for part of the last 4 pgrenacies. The last one i got carpel tunnel of pregnancy, yes it's real, and after her birth got bell's palsy.
I wanted to do what God wanted. I prayed alot about no more babies. I researched method's of bc and sterilization. I did come across a link with vasectomy and prostate. As for tubal's it said you could have heavier periods and I didn't think that could get worse.
 I was reading some books on marriage &child rearing and one thing jumped out. Many people have none or only 1 or 2 children because of their desire for more stuff, cars, big house, etc. We have sacrificed to have 7 children. We live in a 1000sq. ft. home on a small lot in a crime infested neighborhood and drive old cars. We chose to home educate and live on 1 income. My hubby owns his own painting company and works long days to provide for us. We have NOT been selfish. We have given up fancy things to have a large family and they need a Mama around to be able to nurture them. My guilt was gone when I realized this. Friends were very upset by our decision to have my tubes tied. Guilt trips were heaped on us by well meaning friends who could only have 3 children and others with 14. But God be thanked He did not accuse us. He gave me perfect peace! I still have that peace and no desire to reverse the decision. I'm waiting on grandchildren now. My 20 yo has no prospects yet though. My 4 yo is a joy to the entire family. She is the baby and is adored as such.
 My hubby is now pastoring and I can give him my full support. For the first time in 20 yrs we don't have a baby sharing our bed. We are entering a new season of life. He's 44 and I'm 38 and our whole life has and will always be devoted to the family.
 I'm not EVEN suggesting sterilization. But that you look to God, through Jesus, for your answers in this most delicate area. ~Tina
: Re: All About Birth Control
: proudmommaof3 May 11, 2006, 01:14:59 PM
Hey, I just posted my story in the post "Birth Control Story".  But I will say some of it here (you may not go over there and read it ;))
I am very glad that this subject came up.  In January we had our thrid baby.  She is beautiful and a joy to us all.  Hence the name  Shyahna JOY!  (You can read the poam about her at www.homeschoolblogger.com/proudmommaof3/) 
For me when I am pregnant I am very, very sick.  With my first I had 5 IV's by six weeks.  I couldn't get any food or water down.  Again I was severly sick with the second.  This time we had a mid-wife so I was on my own trying to control this.  I did go to the ER and get 2 IV"S and we tried doing IV's with a drip enema.  At that time I started questioning this whole "leave it in God's Hands thing".  #3 was the same thing, only this time I had a 4 year old and a 2 year old.  We did drip enema's every night just so I could stay hydrated.  The whole family suffered.  There was nobody to take care of them.  The kids mudded the side of the house.  I looked out there one day to see my 4 year old getting ready to pummel my 1 year old with a base ball bat. :'(  Thank God I caught him in time.  I spent four months laying on the couch, sick - 24,7-  I can't keep anything down.  We tried everything.  My husband had just started a new job where he was the main contractor building a house and he was stressed to the max.  Then he had to come home to a mess, cook, take care of me, and try to make some since out of the chaos. 
No place in my Bible does it say to leave having children in God's hands.  But it does say that Children are a blessing.  It does say Blessed is the man with a quiver full.  I know to many big familys whose children are completely unruly because Mom doesn't have time for them.  i don't want that for my children.  I want each one of my children to know that they are loved.  I would love to have 12 kids but we may only have three.  I agree with the selfiness thing too.  But a person can have 12 kids and be the most selfish human being in the world.  I know a man with 10 kids (#11 on the way) whose kids wear rags and he doesn't allow them to eat very much(he doesn't want them to be gluttens - he can afford to feed them properly) and he goes out and spends hundreds of $$ on new tools.  Selfiness is an issue of the heart and having kid after kid does not prove that your not selfish.
Taking anything isn't an option for me neither.  For one it makes me very sick and then there is the aborting factor.  I have read everything on NFP and we have spaced our children very well.  AND, yes, I do ask GOD to keep me from getting pregnant.  I tell Him that I do not want any more.  I do think God honors this.  (We still use protection during fertile times! :D)  My last two were conceived while using protection but I had also told God that if he wanted me to get pregnant that that would be okay.  We got pregnant both times. 
I fear getting pregnant again.  I haven't felt very good the last couple of days and not sure why!?!  My kids have to live with out a Mother for 4 months or more.  And I don't think I could do this with a new baby.  Baby's do have feelings too.  They are humans and I want to enjoy my new little girl (our first).  I want her to know that she is truely loved.  I want my kids to have a Mother!!  I am especially interested in this NEEM Oil.  How can I get some?
And if 3 to 4 years from now we decide that we want to have another one or end up having another one.  We will be totally happy and will welcome a new little one into our family.  But not right now!! 
And as far as not feeling well.  I got my Super Mom vitamens today and I took one of those along with the Yeast Assassin.  And something made me sick.  I started sweating and feeling really warm but I wasn't running a tempature.  Then I started feeling sick to my stomach.  I even burped some of it up (It tasted like the bottle smelled).  Now I have a headache.  Right between my eyes and down the back on my neck.  I had some dizziness too.
I took the SuperMom's with echinacea.  I have the kind without too.  I see those have Milk Thistle in them.  I hear that that is good for cleaning out the liver.  Is there enough in there to do that?  Because I may not want to take them to quick.  I am nurseing.  Another reason why i don't want to get pregnant because I want my children to be as healthy as possible.
Got to go be a MOM.  Thanks for "reading" about my two cents on the subject.  DeLyssa
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt May 11, 2006, 01:18:34 PM
Most of us trust God to provide food, but don't you still go to work to make money to buy it?  Just a thought. ::)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Maria/NHM May 11, 2006, 01:22:59 PM
Rebekah,

Do you happen to have any more information on NEEM OIL other than what you already posted? I've been trying to research it for my husband. His concern is that it might have long term effects in weakening the sperm. I haven't been able to find any info on this. Hubby just wants to be sure he isn't causing any long term damage before he takes it. My cycles always return eight weeks after giving birth but I can't seem to carry a baby to term if I get pregnant that soon. I've found it to be a little tricky to chart when your breast feeding :P

I did read that neem is good for your digestive track. Sounds like it has many potential uses.

: Re: All About Birth Control
: proudmommaof3 May 11, 2006, 01:46:03 PM
Hey I just want you gals to know that I am completely computer illerate and I don't know how my story got on there twice!! ;D
DeLyssa
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt May 11, 2006, 03:05:20 PM
Hey I just want you gals to know that I am completely computer illerate and I don't know how my story got on there twice!! ;D
DeLyssa

I merged the two threads as they were related.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl May 11, 2006, 04:01:36 PM
This company (link below) sells neem products and is familiar with using neem as a contraceptive. They have done extensive research and their products are great. In fact, Beeyoutiful will probably relabel and carry some of their skin products eventually. If you're really interested, call and ask about neem as a contraceptive - they will tell you all about it. They have a cream for women to use vaginally, and oil for men to take.

We had the same concern about disabled sperm, but have found no evidence to support that concern, nor any documentation on the subject. It really is a new idea in the USA, as far as I can tell - but very common in India.
We are using neem successfully, but do not personally know anyone else that does. Organix South says they have a lot of customers that use neem as a contraceptive - so I'd recommend talking to them about your concerns.

http://organixsouth.com/


Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Helen May 14, 2006, 02:53:57 AM
which of the creams and oil should I get? and does the cream make you abort or miscarry if you use it at the time of .... well you know...... ???    and does the neem oil leave a bad taste like oregano?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Helen May 14, 2006, 02:54:28 AM
oh and one more thing................. would the neem leaf capsules work for my husband to take for birth control?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mama Sita May 16, 2006, 05:03:38 AM
Hello Ladies,
This information is all so refreshing to see. My only question is--where was this info 8 years ago when we had #4 in 4 years?? :-\
IMO, NFP works only when you have 2 willing partners (I'll give you one guess on who is usually willing...)
Yes, we went the vasectomy route. Finances were sooo tight and I was sooo whooped from having a 3yo, 2yo, 1yo and a newborn, so it seemed like a good idea at the time, plus we had no good source of info for any other possibilities of BC.
Guess what? God is changing our hearts. We are looking at a possible reversal and/or adoption. OUr great kids are now 11,10,9 and 8, and those days seem so far away.
My only advice is to pray, pray, pray about the decisions that you will make concerning BC. This is such a touchy subject, and I appreciate all you who have posted here!

God Bless,
Mama Sita
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl May 16, 2006, 05:53:29 AM
Posted by: Helen
which of the creams and oil should I get? and does the cream make you abort or miscarry if you use it at the time of .... well you know......     and does the neem oil leave a bad taste like oregano?
oh and one more thing................. would the neem leaf capsules work for my husband to take for birth control?

I'd recommend calling Organix South with these questions. We use the oil, dropped into a into a capsule with a dropper, taken by my husband every evening. It does have a strong smell, but it doesn't bother him taken in capsule form, and he always eats a banana right afterward.

The folks at Organix South know a lot more than I do, and could tell you about the cream and leaf, and what each one does. I personally don't know. It's not an extensively researched field, in the English language, anyway.  :)

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Helen May 16, 2006, 07:22:31 AM
thats what Ill do!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama May 16, 2006, 01:44:03 PM
I read the cream is risky for women...but that may depend on how it's used among other things.  I was born in the middle east and I know there was an herbal abortificient cream the women sometimes used (not necessarily neem, as I was very young and never thought to ask what it was) so I know that even topical herbal things can be dangerous if not properly researched.  I'm glad you'll be calling the company!  I hope you learn lots of good stuff so that you can post it all here.  I'm dying to try it after this baby is born, but I would want to know A LOT more before I do so.       ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: blessedwife May 21, 2006, 06:09:40 PM
wow... i thought that i had my mind made up about this subject, but now i am not so sure.  i have three children, ages 4, 3 and 1 and am currently pregnant (only a few months along) with #4. my husband and i decided that we were just going to trust the Lord and forego birth control.  my first child was a difficult labor and he ended up being sucked out with the vacuum thing (sounds funny as i write this, doesn't it).  anyway, he was/is perfectly fine and about as active a boy as you can imagine.  my second ended up a c-section because her arm was in the way and preventing her from getting out.  my third was a c-section as well.  this present pregnancy will be another c-section as advised by my OB whose opinion i respect. 
my question is (and my husband actually wants this to be my decision as he feels that i am the one who is carrying and birthing the babies) are we being irresponsible by deciding to "keep going?"  (he is already planning baby #5-- ha ha) i am not aware of any place in the Bible where the conceiving of a child is considered a curse.  He is the Giver of life and decides when and if a child is conceived.  so why not trust Him?  why would he bless anyone with a child if she were not "ready?"  then again, none of our friends (all Christians) are "quiver-full minded",and this causes me to doubt our decision.  i have gone to the Lord with this and i believe that He is "right on" with our decision, but then again, it could just be me talking to me, do you know what i mean?  (ha ha) i guess what i am trying to say is that i'm confused. 
any thoughts on this? 
-- blessedwife

p.s. you are an AWESOME group of women (and men).  so glad i found you!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mishy May 21, 2006, 07:03:19 PM
If you and your hubby are in agreement and your hubby is planning number 5, go for it!!!  We quit because my hubby said he was done.  The Bible doesn't say how many to have and as long as hubby says OK, and you aren't in medical jeopardy, I don't see why not to have more. 

What's "quiver-full minded"?   I have heard a quiver full being as many as you can have.  And I have heard a quiver full is "My quiver has three arrows and it is full!!" 

:)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jeniwren May 21, 2006, 08:16:22 PM
What's "quiver-full minded"?   I have heard a quiver full being as many as you can have.  And I have heard a quiver full is "My quiver has three arrows and it is full!!" 


           I believe that it must be a mutual decision between husband and wife. It is not doctrinal, as far as the Bible goes, and if hubby wants another one, and you don't mind having c-sections (since he left it to you to decide)...then go for it. I have a friend whose pelvic area is too small for her and she had to undergo 2 c-sections (that's how they found out it was too small. she did full labor both times). They decided not to have any more children, for her sake...but they were agreed on it. Some husbands don't want 3,4 or 5 + children; some are gracious because their wives do; and others want bushels of them  :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lewisquiverfull May 22, 2006, 06:24:40 PM
I totally agree with you guys. Whatever you and  your husband agree on, go for it. I am just wondering at this time if I will ever sit through a whole church service without taking a baby in the nursery!  ;D They are such a blessing, and so much work!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt May 22, 2006, 06:58:10 PM
What's "quiver-full minded"? 

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.  As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.  Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them...
~Proverbs 127:3-5
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mishy May 22, 2006, 07:31:19 PM
LOL.  I am familiar with the term quiver full and where it comes from, but there are different defs according to diff people and I was wondering what the definition of blessedwife's friends was.
 :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: blessedwife May 23, 2006, 10:52:32 AM
oh i'm sorry!  should have clarified that...  anyway, my experience has been that people who regard themselves as "quiver-full" minded are those who don't choose to use birth control and hope for as many children as the Lord will send.
--Blessedwife
: Re: All About Birth Control
: FaithAcre May 24, 2006, 05:09:25 PM
Here's my definition of quiver-full:

Not necessarily wanting a whole honk load of children, but being happy and satisfied with however many the Lord chooses to bless you with.  To me it's a trust issue.

Here's a quote from Nancy Campbell from Above Rubies, that sums it up perfectly for me:

"When you surrender your fertility to the Lord, you can be happy knowing you have the children God planned for you to have, whether it be two or ten" ~Nancy Campbell~

Now having said all this, hubby had a vasectomy almost 4 years ago.  We have since been convicted and now realize that this is against God's plan for us.  When God blessed Adam and Eve and told them to be fruitful and multiply, that word "blessed" not only means gift, but also function.  The Bible is really full of scripture regarding children being blessings.  Really, this is one way we are to further His kingdom, by producing godly seed.  Yes, there are no scriptures telling us exactly how many to have, but see the quote above for the answer to that.

Hubby is still in the undecided stages of what yet to do about a reversal.  However, we know that God will lead us and provide so long as we are obedient to His will.

Now it seems irresponsible to the worlld to just go on "blindly" having children.  But God knows it all...He knows what our bodies are going to go through.  I mean, He did after all curse women to have sorrow (birth pangs) while bringing children into the world.  So that's what happens. 

So, there ya go ;D  My humble opinion.

 Go to God first with anything!

: Re: All About Birth Control
: ~esposita~ May 29, 2006, 12:14:20 PM
A question for beeyoutifulgirl:

My hubby and I are excited to try neem seed oil.  I called organixsouth and inquired about their products.  They did NOT recommend taking the oil, and said that it may couse stomach irritation, because it is stronger than the herbal capsules.  It seems that if we were to buy the oil and make our own capsules (as you and your husband did/do), it would be more cost effective.  Did your hubby ever experience any stomach irritations with taking the oil?  Do you (does he) plan to continue taking the oil, or was he going to switch to the leaf capsules?  Any suggestions on where to get the "best" oil - I've looked at both banyan botanicals and organixsouth, as well as a bunch of other distributers and see big differences in cost.  Any other suggestions? 

Thanks bunches!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: StephTallent May 29, 2006, 02:09:33 PM
A question for beeyoutifulgirl:

My hubby and I are excited to try neem seed oil.  I called organixsouth and inquired about their products.  They did NOT recommend taking the oil, and said that it may couse stomach irritation, because it is stronger than the herbal capsules.  It seems that if we were to buy the oil and make our own capsules (as you and your husband did/do), it would be more cost effective.  Did your hubby ever experience any stomach irritations with taking the oil?  Do you (does he) plan to continue taking the oil, or was he going to switch to the leaf capsules? 

I called Organixsouth and talked to them last week.  I asked what (in their experience) the most effective way of using Neem as a contraceptive was.  She said that when the man only takes it that they have had reports of it not being nearly as effective as the man and woman taking the "gel" caps that they sell (I thought this was the oil??  ??? ) and using the Neem oil as a lubricant.  She said that the combination of the three things have had the very best success. 

I haven't read (and forgot to ask, she seemed in a hurry) why it was important for the woman to take it as well?  Does anybody know?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jenny4wen May 30, 2006, 11:13:50 AM
I called Organix South, and talked to a very informative lady named Shawna.  You can possibly get pregnant using the smaller amounts, she suggested using the Supercritical Extract (both wife and hubby) but if you were to concieve, there is a major possiblity of your body aborting the baby.  She started taking the TheraNeem Leaf capsules, and found out she was pregnant already, and stopped taking them.  Her baby is fine (still not born).  I asked about other options on preventing pregnancy without me taking it.  She said the Neem Leaf and Oil Cream (in two different scents) could be used, but it can irritate the sensitive skin, and using Pure Neem Oil as a lubricant would probably be the next best thing.  Then the neem isn't in your system, so if conception does occur, abortion isn't the result.  She also mentioned if you decide you are ready for a baby, wait 6 or 7 months after taking the oil, to make sure it is out of your systerm.  The Supercritical Extract tablets are not very cheap, but it just might be worth it :)  You can order directly through OrganixSouth, or you can find a local dealer, and not pay shipping, but prettymuch the same price.  Hope this helps!
~Jenny

PS she said if hubby is used to eating herbs, this shouldn't upset his stomach :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: organixsouth May 31, 2006, 03:26:38 AM
Hi Ladies! I'm the formulator and founder of Organix-South and have been working with neem for about ten years now.  Was wondering where all these flurries of birth control inquiries have been coming from! I love the conversation here, and am impressed with the amount of research some of you are putting into this. We get a bit nervous recommending neem as a natural birth control (the FDA also would get really cranky with us, as it hasn't gone through the proper medicinal channels'), but I'll happily recommend where you can find the best research and the feedback we get from people, so you can make your own educated decisions. I have to say that we do not sell neem as a birth control method. What you do with it is up to you (sorry for the disclaimer). There is a direct link from our website to a medline database of scientific journals. http://www.organixsouth.com/articles_infoneem.html
I also have a synopsis of all the recent research done that I'd be happy to share with anyone (if I could figure out how to post the word document, I would).

Regarding quality of oil, this is VERY VERY VERY important! You can get neem oil from India that is solvent expelled, the second and third pressing, contaminated, etc. Neem is often not recommended internally by Indians because it can be easily contaminated with aflatoxin (a common but toxic mold that likes to grow on seeds). Our oil is tested and certified to be free of this toxin. We also do several other tests, potency, purity, microbial - its the best neem oil available. I would assume that most reputable US companies do the same. I haven't tested Banyan's neem, but I have used some of their other stuff, and found it to be fantastic.

So...if I was going to use neem as a birth control, I would use the pure oil as a lubricant. (Be ready for the smell, ladies! It has a nutty-garlic or burnt garlic odor - which perhaps out of necessity I have come to love...) I might add a few drops of lavender or rose geranium essential oil, both non-irritating, but smell nice. I would also take the supercritical leaf capsules internally. The regular leaf capsules are less expensive and would have basically the same action, but the recommended dose is 4-6 capsules a day verses 1-2. I would also ask my husband to take the capsules internally. Its been shown to slow sperm mobility with no genetic or long term effects. The research is inconclusive why it works for the woman to take internally, but the thought is that it boosts your immune response, telling your body that sperm is a foreign agent.

No side effects either with neem. Like with other Ayurvedic herbs, we like to say they have side benefits not side effects. Neem internally is often used as an adaptogenic herb, bringing your body into balance.  Helps build the immune system, stabilize digestion, promotes clear, healthy skin, stabilizes blood sugar levels, supports healthy levels of yeast (think Candida). Topically, it is a natural anti-viral, soothes irritated skin, and has similar properties to tea tree but is high in soothing and moisturizing fatty acids. The only people we do not recommend to take internally are those who are pregnant or nursing, trying to conceive (male or female) and those on blood thinners.

If you have any questions, let me know. Hope I didn't sound too much like a commercial!

Best of health,
Autumn Blum
Organix-South, Inc.
888-989-6336
www.organixsouth.com

 

: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama May 31, 2006, 05:08:48 AM
  I did some internet searches on neem and found that it has about a zillion benefits, and is a very effective topical spermicide.  However, it is also listed as an abortificient to be avoided by anyone who is pregnant or may become pregnant.  Below are 2 of many passages that describe the risks.  I have not posted the benefits simply because I figured that anyone reading this is probably aware that they exist.  I am not trying to be biased, just conserving time and space.
  Also, this is along slightly different lines than what I have listed below, but I read that some men use neem oil topically to slightly desensitize their most sensitive area in order to delay the inevitable for the sake of their wives.  (I hope that was clear and tactful.)  I mention this simply because some might not desire this effect.


The following was taken from www.sisterzeus.com/neem.html

WOMEN:  "Neem oil has also been found to prevent implantation and may even have an abortifacient effect similar to pennyroyal, juniper berries, wild ginger, myrrh and angelica. The effects were seen as many as ten days after fertilization in rats though it was most effective at no more than three days. (Sinha, et al, 1984); (Lal et al, 1985). In a study on rats, neem oil was given orally eight to ten days after implantation of the fetus on the uterine wall. In all cases, by day 15, the embryos were all completely resorbed by the body. The animals regained fertility on the next cycle showing no physical problems. Detailed study of the rats revealed increased levels of gamma interferon in the uterus. The neem oil enhanced the local immune response in the uterus.(Mukherjee, 1996) Post coital use of neem oil as birth control does not appear to work by hormonal changes but produces changes in the organs that make pregnancy no longer viable (Tewari, 1989) (Bardham, 1991)"


This was taken from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9228306&dopt=Abstract

PROBLEM: To develop a self-administered, orally delivered method for abrogation of early pregnancy. METHOD: Use of purified Neem extracts containing immunomodulators stimulating Th1 cells and macrophages; test animals, rats, baboons, and monkeys, onset of pregnancy confirmed by surgery and counting of implants on day 7 in rats and by chorionic gonadotropin (CG) and progesterone assays in primates; termination defined by complete resorption on day 15 in rats and by bleeding and decline of CG and progesterone in baboons.
 RESULTS: Pregnancy was terminated successfully in both rodents and primates with no significant side effects. Fertility was regained in both species after one or two irregular cycles. Progeny born had normal developmental landmarks and mothered normal litters in the course of time. The active principle in Neem has been partially fractionated by activity-guided purification. A cascade of events are involved in abrogation of pregnancy. In primates, a decrease in progesterone is an early event. A transient increase in CD4 and CD8 cells is noted in spleen at 96 hr and in mostly CD8 cells in mesenteric lymph nodes. Treatment causes an elevation of both immunoreactive and bioactive TNF-alpha and gamma-interferon in serum, mesenteric lymph nodes, and foetoplacental tissue. CONCLUSION: Immunomodulators of plant origin are potentially usable for termination of unwanted pregnancy

  So my question is this:  In what forms does neem NOT pose any risk of abortion (should it be used by the male or female, topical or oral, oil or cream or herb, etc.) and what is the corresponding effectiveness at preventing conception?  I am interested in safe, natural contraception, but NOT birth control that affects the viability of a fertilized egg.
  Maybe organixsouth could help with this?  (Although I assume it would have to be unofficially, not as a rep for the company, right?)
    Thanks!                                                                       ~Layla
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt May 31, 2006, 05:17:21 AM
I also have a synopsis of all the recent research done that I'd be happy to share with anyone (if I could figure out how to post the word document, I would).

This information has been posted HERE. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php?topic=765.0)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Gabe Rising May 31, 2006, 06:51:11 AM
I currently take Neem internally, but I have not used Organix South, I just use a high quality expeller pressed oil... however after reading Autum's note, I would highly recommend using their oil. Everything they sell is very high quality.

I believe that the only non-abortifacient use of Neem is for the male to take it internally. Having said that, we have not yet "put Neem to the test" as we also very successfully use the timing method.

Basically I have been using Neem daily to determine any long term effects. When we decide to have our fourth, we'll try for a few months while I am still on Neem... we'll tell you when it happens ;)

As a side note:

I have had some sort of latent septic infection since I was about 12. It would surface in case of injury. Whenever I got a significant cut or abrasion I would also get a nasty infection... I could never be sure that the infection had not been introduced from "outside" but it was always so quick to develop and so persistent that it was a little freaky.

I also had a lot of boils when I was about 18 to 22 years old.

OK, so since I have been taking Neem for a year or so, I have had a couple significant cuts/abrasions and no accompanying infection. I believe (with no clinical evidence) that taking the Neem cleared out the sepsis (blood infection) that I think I have had for years.

For what that's worth...

So, long story short... Neem can possibly be used as birth control many different ways, but we think the only way that it can be used that is not abortive is for the Husband to take it orally on a daily basis. According to the limited literature it takes six weeks of taking about 6 drops of pure neem seed extract per day to become "infertile." Then it takes about 6 weeks after discontinuing Neem to become completely fertile again.

In a test of neem's birth control effects with members of the Indian Army, daily oral doses of several drops of neem seed oil in gelatin capsules were given to twenty married soldiers. The effect took six weeks to become 100 percent effective, it remained effective during the entire year of the trial and was reversed six weeks after the subjects stopped taking the capsules. During this time the men experienced no adverse side effects and retained their normal capabilities and desires. (Vietmeyer, 1992) There were no pregnancies of any of the wives during the period of the study. ... this also from the sisterzeus site

How it works... and why a lot of folks won't try it:

It is thought that the reason Neem works so well as an "anti-fertility" agent in men is that once concentrations of some part of the neem seed extract are high enough, the sperm chromosomes do not develop properly. The obvious fear is birth defects.

Here are a couple links that are more or less relevant:

http://ansinet.org/fulltext/jbs/jbs1111021-1027.pdf (no relation to human sperm, but it describes the chromosomal activity of Neem for use as an insecticide)

Vietmeyer, 1992 - book (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=a7hdsRiQ6lcC&oi=fnd&pg=PP9&sig=dncRzTX9PvwxLKCH-zf-dOjvHlQ&dq=Vietmeyer+neem+birth+control+1992&prev=http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3DVietmeyer%2Bneem%2Bbirth%2Bcontrol%2B1992%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a)

The reason I am willing to try it is that Neem has a very long (centuries long) anecdotal and ethno-botanical history as a birth control agent. Whether and how the chromosomal effects work is still not known...

I need to write more... but I have to go... more later!

--gabe
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthyinOhio June 02, 2006, 04:36:04 AM
My husband had a vasectomy right after our son was born.  He was four months old.  I was very sick with my two pregnancies, and my husband just didn't trust God to provide for another mouth to feed.  He got the surgery done without my blessing, but I told him that it was his body and he was boss.  He went through the surgery well, but always had chronic pain in that area.  Some men have it worse than others, but his was just a constant dull ache. 
Also, he told me that when they had "snipped" him, he felt this unusual tug in his soul.  You know, that area in your gut.
He never told me this until after he had a vasectomy reversal.  He had a reversal in November, just three and a half years after his vasectomy.  He told me that he truly believes, although there is not scripture that he has found on this feeling, but thinks that his "sex organs" are tied into his soul.  And that when it was repaired, there was this feeling of connection that he had lost when he had his surgery.
He admits that what he did was scripturally wrong.  And now we both feel better since he has had his reversal.  Now, we are just waiting for the miracle of a child.
If he was here now, he would definitely NEVER recommend a vasectomy to any man.  In fact, he tells the men at work who are going in for one, not to get one.  They don't listen to him, of course, but he has done his part. 
I recommend reading the books : A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess.  And :  Children: A Blessing or a Burden by Max Heine(he does not quote KJV).
Also, there is a good CD by S. A. Davis called God's Viewpoint on Having Babies which summarizes a lot of Rick and Jan's book.  It can be bought at www.SolveFamilyProblems.com 
Should your husbands want to talk to mine about any of this and get a "male" point of view :)  They can send a message to healthyinOhiosboss.
God bless you with your decision.  May God grant you wisdom.

IMVHO  Full Quiver:  It is the amount that God gives you.  Some may have three, others may have eleven.  But they both have the same thing in common:  God decided their quiver and not themselves.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: dara June 02, 2006, 05:56:13 AM
Physical Health and Nutrition.... Let's remember the recent guidelines!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ~esposita~ June 02, 2006, 09:47:46 AM
A question for Gabe:

When you make your neem oil capsules, can you make a whole bunch at once, or only one at a time? 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Gabe Rising June 02, 2006, 10:23:21 AM
No, you can't make more than one at a time as the oil will disolve the capsule pretty quickly.

I just make one capsule every night. I drop in about 6 or 7 drops of Neem, then top it off with water, put the capluse top on, and immediately swallow it with other vitamins, etc.

I know this is not ideal... that's why the Organix South Hypercritical extract is so nice... it comes in soft gels!

By the way, I do this same capsule making routine with Grapefruit Seed Extract as well when I have some bad stomach bug that needs to be nuked.

--gabe
: Re: All About Birth Control
: proudmommaof3 June 02, 2006, 12:13:39 PM
Wow, wow, wow.  Is this a hot subject or what?   Boy, am I glad that we All feel the same on this subject.  It's hard to "live" around people who don't hold the same views and totally makes you feel like a fool for even trying NFP.
 My mid-wife also said there was no scientific evidence yet that vasectomies led to health problems other than prostate cancer.  My sister-in-law and I happened to get on this subject, too, and I told her that the Birth Control pill was abortifacient.  And she said Oh no it's not.  The lower the dosages, the better it is. (The "Doctor" she asked and her both happen to be Christians).  Which according to Shonda Parker the lower the dosage the higher incidence of "breakthrough" ovulation therefore leading to aborting.  Is there any other Web sites out there that support this?  And can PROVE it scientifically!!  Doctors "say" it is all in theory.
(of course, my thought was - if your Doctor told you to drink poison, would you?)
My thought too on the Full-quiver thing.  Why do children and fiances always come hand in hand?  The world says that kids are expensive but the Bible says a person lacking in how to manage their finances will not have money.  You Reap what you Sow.
I know family's with 5 or more children (up to 16) that live debt free, eat organically, take family vacations every year, etc.  Plus, they are the happiest people around.  Everybody admires that family.  They are truly Blessed.
Then I now couples who both work good jobs, they have more debt, aren't happy, can't take a vacation if their life depended on it, vehicle is constantly breaking down, their sick, they can't eat healthy (organic isn't an option) because it is tooo expensive, and they take some form of oral birth control because they just couldn't afford to have kids.  And they are very oppressed, depressed people, not to mention extremely selfish. (And why do we get jealous of these people.)
Duet. 28 says Blessed is the man who follows the Lord.  There are 9 scriptures on Blessings.  There are alot of curses for the man who does not.  Their job is cursed, their health is cursed, their finances are cursed, etc.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: dara June 04, 2006, 09:55:38 AM
I've looked into this, and to date, I haven't found any documentation that says the Birth Control Pill IS an aborticant. Everything I've read says it isn't, or it might be, but nothing conclusive.

P.S. The full quiver discussion is of personal biblical interpretation, and is not related to physical health.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt June 04, 2006, 10:04:45 AM
I believe that whether to "have" or "have not" is entirely up to you and espeically hubby, but oral contraceptives are not the route to go unless you have no other choice.  Oral contraceptives contribute to breast cancer, breast tenderness, moodiness, and high blood pressure.  These are the things they tell you, but the things they don't tell you:    They contribute to candida which in turn contributes to leaky gut syndrome (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,603.0.html) which contributes to just about every ailment plaguing society today.

I took them for years for lack of better judgement and I paid for it with my health.  Once I stopped and had a tubal ligation, all of my symptoms regressed, except of course candida related symptoms as I had to treat for this and do some healing.

Count your babies when and if you want to.  IMHO basing your decisions on whether to "have" , "have not" or "have some more" on your abilities to care for and support a large or small family is responsibility, not lack of faith.  Just do it wisely and make your choices healthy ones.

I trusted God to give me the right amount of babies and he gave me a husband who is wise and caring enough to make the right decision for our family. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: dara June 04, 2006, 10:05:50 AM
What's IMHO mean?   ???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt June 04, 2006, 10:11:04 AM
What's IMHO mean?   ???

In My Humble Opinion.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jenny4wen June 04, 2006, 10:30:22 AM
I've looked into this, and to date, I haven't found any documentation that says the Birth Control Pill IS an aborticant. Everything I've read says it isn't, or it might be, but nothing conclusive.

P.S. The full quiver discussion is of personal biblical interpretation, and is not related to physical health.


I have a Davis Drug Guide for Nurses, and the contraceptives are all in one big clump.  There is Progressive Estrogen Oral Contraceptives: norethindrone/ethinyl acetate, Estrostep, Estrostep Fe , norgestrel, Ovrette,
Contraceptive Implant: levonorgestrel, Norplant
Emergency Contraceptive:  levonorgestrel/ethinylestradiol, Preven,  
Injectable Contraceptive: medroxyprogesterone, Depo-Provera

ACTION:
Monophasic Oral Contraceptives:: Provide a fixed dosage of extrogen/progestin over a 21-day cycle.  Ovulation is inhibited by suppression of follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH).  May alter cervical mucus and the endometrial environment, preventing penetration by sperm and implantation of the egg.
Biphasic Oral Contraceptives:  Ovulation is inhibited by supression of FSH and LH.  May alter cervical mucus and the endometrial environment, preventing penetration by sperm and implantation of the egg.  In addition, smaller dose of progestin in phase 1 allows for proliferation of endometrium.  Larger amount in phase 2 allows for adequate secretory development.
Triphasic Oral Contraceptives: Ovulation is inhibited by supression of FSH and LH.  May alter cervical mucus and the endometrial environment, preventing penetration by sperm and implantation of the egg.  Varying doses of estrogen/progestin may more closely mimic natural hormonal fluctuations.
Progressive Estrogen: Contains constant amount of progestin with 3 progressive doses of estrogen.
Progestin-Only Contraceptives and Contraceptive Implant: Mechanism inot clearly known.  May alter cervical mucus and the endometrial environment, preventing penetration by sperm and implantation of the egg.  Ovulation may also  be suppressed.
Medroxy-progesterone Injection: Inhibits gonadotropin secretion, follicle maturation, and ovulation.  Also produces endometrial thinning.


I know this is a lot of jargon, but I also have the Taber's medical dicionary, and I love looking this up if you have more questions.  This information came from Davis Drug Guide for Nurses, seventh addition, page 226.
  I think I'll throw in the Adverse reatctions and side effects as well.  Pg 227:

CNS: depression, migraine headache.
EENT: contact lens intolerance, optic neuritis, retinal thrombosis.
CV:  CEREBRAL HEMORRHAGE, CEREBRAL THROMBOSIS, CORONARY THROMBOSIS, PULMONARY EMBOLISM, edema, hypertension, Raynaud's phenomenon, thromboembolic phenomena, thrombophlebitis.
GI: abdominal cramps, bloating, cholestatic jaundice, gallbladder disease, liver tumors, nausea, vomiting.
GU: amenorrhea, breakthrough bleeding, dysmenorrhea, spotting.
Derm: melasma, rash.
Endo: hyperglycemia.
Misc: weight change.

*CAPITALS indicate life-threatening
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt June 04, 2006, 10:57:43 AM
Raynaud's phenomenon,...GI: abdominal cramps, bloating, cholestatic jaundice, gallbladder disease, liver tumors,

These are also indications of LGS.  Coincidence ???  I think not.  ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthyinOhio June 04, 2006, 12:07:29 PM
There is a book by Randy Alcorn called:  Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?  It is very well documented.  You can get it on amazon.com for only $3.00  It will answer all of your questions. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: living4Him June 13, 2006, 02:06:11 PM
I found Neem(Azadirachta indica) (leaf) 475mg per capsule.

Is this the same and going to work the same as the oil?
Also, where can you buy the same one in capsules that you are using and what brand are they?
Thanks for the info.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis June 15, 2006, 04:35:54 AM
Has any one tried the LADY COMP devcice  for birth control? Here is the web site.

http://naturalbirthcontrol.com/show.php?lang=english&page=online_store

I would love to hear thoughts and suggestions about this.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis June 15, 2006, 11:02:42 AM
Any body? :-\
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Chickory Chick June 15, 2006, 11:55:15 AM
Has any one tried the LADY COMP devcice  for birth control? Here is the web site.

http://naturalbirthcontrol.com/show.php?lang=english&page=online_store

I would love to hear thoughts and suggestions about this.

I have not used this device.  We have sucessfuly used family planning based on the book "Love & Fertility by Families of the Americas.  I heard about this from Dr. Dobson (via my SIL).  Here is their link, in case you are interested.  http://www.familyplanning.net/index-home.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Helen June 15, 2006, 12:06:20 PM
I just checked it out, now that looks really cool!!!! BUT the price is UP there!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis June 15, 2006, 12:26:25 PM
I thought the same thing about the breast feeding. I guess you could call the information # or just wait till your through breast feeding. I'm bf right now and am planning to try it as soon as I get a period again. I usually don't have one or get prego until I quit bf.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: skederbear June 21, 2006, 04:31:29 AM
 My hubby has been taking neem leaf capsules for about 5 or 6 months now.  He will be going off of them next month...so we'll see if they work okay.  We have a 15 month old and I had gotten on birth control pill after having him,and hated the side affects,plus I knew they weren't good for me anyway.   Before we had our son we had used spermicide,but I  got pregant twice and miscarried both times, and all three pregnancies were a month a part.   Seeing as my baby was 11 pounds when he was born, we decided to give my body plenty of time to heal up.  So far between spermicide AND the neem capsules,I haven't got pregnant.  But now I'm ready for another one. (=  All the other young couples at our church call us the expeirment, so it is great to know we aren't the only ones trying it!
  One other thing, the articles about neem had said that it boosts your imune system.  When the flue went around this spring.  My hubby was the only one that didn't get sick out of his parents family and ours. ( excapt for his sister's 1 week baby,but she was nursing)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ~esposita~ June 23, 2006, 10:30:03 AM
We just started the Neem...

My man makes a capsule from the oil each night.  For the first few night, all went great.  Then, in a bold attempt to impress the wife of his youth, he quirted the alotted amount right into his mouth!  You should have seen his face as he first grabed for a glass of water, then went searching for the Listerine to be rid of the taste. 

Needless to say, he wont try that again ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: dkdelgado June 23, 2006, 08:21:22 PM
I just thought I would give my two cents about this topic.  After I had my first child the doctor said to me "So what are you going to use for birth control."  This started my long journey to where I am today.  For a while after that appointment with my doctor my husband and I tried condoms and spermicide(that stuff burns) so we just stopped using it and then eventually the condoms.  I was totally against birth control pills from the start, at that point in my life all I knew was that it just didn't seem natural to me.  So I was questioning whether I was doing the right thing by not doing anything to stop pregnancy.  Then GOD sent a wonderful godly woman into my life that changed my view on children.  She introduced me to the Pearls through a magazine and the To Train Up a Child book.   Before meeting them my husband and I wanted 5 children each 5 years apart.  This family believes that children are a blessing and that they have allowed GOD to have full control in this area of their lives as far as spacing and timing.   I'd never met anyone who felt this way before.  So my heart was changed by seeing the trust this family has and the happiness they have.  I then started to want to leave the amount of children in GOD's hands and then my husband had a change of heart as well. 
   GOD blessed us with our second child three years and eight months after my first child.  The timing was perfect.  Then when my daughter was 15 months GOD gave me a surprise that I didn't think I was ready for.  My third pregnancy was difficult because I was not happy that I had gotten pregnant so soon after having my daughter.  When he was born I had a lot of guilt for how I felt during the pregnancy that I had to overcome and it was tremendously difficult to adjust to being a mom of 3.  But things started to turn around when he first smiled and then I got to see his personality and I fell in love with this great kid.  Everyday I enjoy him and thank GOD for the wonderful kid he is.  I may have missed this great blessing had I tried to prevent GOD's hand.  I've learned that GOD knows best not me and if I had things my way it would not be the best way. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl June 24, 2006, 05:51:06 PM
I'm glad you and your husband have peace about the issue of birth control; being together on this subject is the most important thing.

I also have to clarify as well; as the daughter of the Pearl's, I know that they do not hold to the "no birth control position" - nor do they recommend birth control. In fact, they do not talk about the subject much at all, except to say that if you can't train your children and be a part of their lives, don't have children - or don't have so many - and that wives should obey their husbands in regards to family planning.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Rebekah

Here is an article by Debi Pearl that may interest you:  <a href="http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=57&tx_ttnews[swords]=RATS&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=39&tx_ttnews[backPid]=118&cHash=97e1d7175a">"RATS"[/url]


: Re: All About Birth Control
: el1zabeth July 13, 2006, 10:03:12 AM
I just want to put in my 2 cents. My last baby is 1 yr old. I have 4 children. My last pregnany I had a horrible attitude. I felt awful! I had a hard time keeping up the house, and I nagged my husband to help me.  We fought all the time. Shortly after I had my little one, a friend told me about the book Created To Be A Help Meet. We both ordered our books and began reading. It saved my marriage. I followed Mrs. Pearl's advice, and slowly our relationship began to heal. We are closer than ever now. My husband is a good man, but to my astonishment my bad attitude had almost driven him to leave! (He was just going a few streets over to stay with his brother, but I had no idea.) I could've lost my marriage. So, I just want to say to any young women out there read this book!! She does talk a little about birth control..Towards the end of the book. Not about any particular method, but she tells a story about a woman with 5 children whose husband leaves because he cannot take the responsibility. I should have done a better job spacing mine out. My husband got a vasectomy when my last one was 7 months old. I begged him not to, but had to let it be his decision. He said he was very concerned about his financial responsibility to the family, and didn't feel like he could provide for more children. I am praying God will give me peace about this. Maybe someday He will have it reversed.... either way, I have to trust God by trusting my husband.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 13, 2006, 10:18:24 AM
Thank you for sharing your story. It takes a repentant heart to openly share where one has gone wrong. I believe God is blessing you through your obedience, and you will not regret turning your heart toward your husband!

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 13, 2006, 12:53:12 PM
A good resource for Natural Family Planning is the Couple to Couple Leage. 

www.ccli.org

NFP is 99% effective when followed correctly and can help conceive and avoid pregnancy.
After learning all the horrible side effects of chemicle birth controls and how they work I wouldn't even want my enemy on it.  >:(
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 13, 2006, 12:55:06 PM
Oh yeah, you don't need to have a regular cycle to use NFP, either.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie July 13, 2006, 01:29:37 PM
Here is an article by Debi Pearl that may interest you:  <a href="http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=57&tx_ttnews[swords]=RATS&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=39&tx_ttnews[backPid]=118&cHash=97e1d7175a">"RATS"[/url]

awesome article........wow.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: shawnaincov July 15, 2006, 03:30:29 PM
Question about the capsules that you use. What size?  Are the #3 large enough or do you need a larger one.  thanks for all the info and help.
SHawna
: Re: All About Birth Control
: catholicmom July 15, 2006, 06:20:13 PM
IUDs are always abortive.  Every form of chemical contraception can cause an abortion. 

I have had four c- sections, health problems, and money problems.  But I stand firm that NFP is the only way to go.  All other forms are bad for your marriage.  Including vasectomies and tubals.   

You know, when sex works properly, it makes a baby.  God intended it to.  And even though things are really hard now, it does not compare to the joy we will have in heaven if we succeed in raising our children for God's Kingdom.  It's so awesome that he lets us participate in His creation.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 15, 2006, 06:30:32 PM
Question about the capsules that you use. What size?  Are the #3 large enough or do you need a larger one.  thanks for all the info and help.
SHawna

Gabe used 00, or 0 size. So I'm sure 000 would be big enough.

We decided to have another baby and so have stopped taking the Neem oil...   ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 15, 2006, 06:34:32 PM
We decided to have another baby and so have stopped taking the Neem oil...   ;D

CONGRATULATIONS.  and besides you needed more to do.  You guys sit around too much.  ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 15, 2006, 06:34:54 PM
IUDs are always abortive.  Every form of chemical contraception can cause an abortion. 

I have had four c- sections, health problems, and money problems.  But I stand firm that NFP is the only way to go.  All other forms are bad for your marriage.  Including vasectomies and tubals.   

You know, when sex works properly, it makes a baby.  God intended it to.  And even though things are really hard now, it does not compare to the joy we will have in heaven if we succeed in raising our children for God's Kingdom.  It's so awesome that he lets us participate in His creation.

Thanks for the imput, but please include research, statistics, etc.. to back up absolute statements. There are some fairly intelligent and researched people here.  ;)

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 15, 2006, 06:38:18 PM
We decided to have another baby and so have stopped taking the Neem oil...   ;D

CONGRATULATIONS.  and besides you needed more to do.  You guys sit around too much.  ;)

hehe...he.

thanks  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jaemom July 16, 2006, 01:32:16 AM
I believe that the only non-abortifacient use of Neem is for the male to take it internally. Having said that, we have not yet "put Neem to the test" as we also very successfully use the timing method.

Basically I have been using Neem daily to determine any long term effects. When we decide to have our fourth, we'll try for a few months while I am still on Neem... we'll tell you when it happens ;)

--gabe


SNIP
First of all, congratulations!  Second, did you use the Neem exclusively as BC?  Was curious if it worked all by itself.   :) 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: KatieMac July 16, 2006, 02:22:01 AM
IUDs are always abortive. 

I'm so thankful we serve a sovereign God. When my mom had an IUD, it didn't make an abortion, it made twins! Her doctor insisted she expelled it (yeah, like she expelled it and didn't know!) 9 months later she delivers fraternal twin boys AND an IUD! I've actually heard than an IUD can increase the chances of fraternal twins because it irritates the ovaries. I just think it's so awesome, because my mom was uninformed about the abortive nature of IUDs. I really beleive that in his faithful servants God takes care of them even in their ignorance. At least in my personal experience.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 16, 2006, 06:36:32 AM
Question about the capsules that you use. What size?  Are the #3 large enough or do you need a larger one.  thanks for all the info and help.
SHawna

Gabe used 00, or 0 size. So I'm sure 000 would be big enough.

We decided to have another baby and so have stopped taking the Neem oil...   ;D

That's great!!!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 16, 2006, 06:51:20 AM
IUDs are always abortive.  Every form of chemical contraception can cause an abortion. 

I have had four c- sections, health problems, and money problems.  But I stand firm that NFP is the only way to go.  All other forms are bad for your marriage.  Including vasectomies and tubals.   

You know, when sex works properly, it makes a baby.  God intended it to.  And even though things are really hard now, it does not compare to the joy we will have in heaven if we succeed in raising our children for God's Kingdom.  It's so awesome that he lets us participate in His creation.

I totally agree.  The birth control pill works one of three ways.  The first way is it stops ovulation.  It doesn't always do that.  We know this, because some people conceive while on it.  The second thing it does is it alters the cervical mucous, so sperm have a hard time making their way up.  The third thing is it alters the lining in the uterus, so if a baby is conceived it is not able to implant in the uterus thus resulting in an abortion. 

The IUD doesn't interfere with sperm migration or with conception.  What it does is it prevents the conceived child from implanting in the uterus. 

Condoms and spermicides do not cause abortions, but there are other problems.  On some condoms there is talc.  These particles can enter the woman's body and irritate her tissues, potentially causing infertility or cancer.  I also heard that if the condom breaks during intercourse the sperm can get damaged and cause birth defects. 
Spermicides have side effects including vaginal dryness, painful urination, toxic shock syndrome, and possible birth defects in future children.

*Sources:  "A Consumer's Guide to the Pill and Other Drugs" by pharmacist/researcher John Wilks.;  "Condom Fact Sheet"  American Life League, revised 1996

I hope this helps!!!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 16, 2006, 07:05:06 AM
I really appreciate everyone's opinions.  Unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury of having the option about using/not using bc.

I am on the pill.  I have researched all manner of facts about it from both sides of the argument, and my husband made the final decision on the matter.  I, if I am going to submit to him, must abide by this decision.

I have been afraid to mention it on the board, because I was not sure whether or not I would be judged for the decision.  But, truly, I believe that it is most important that I submit to my husband, and ask God to speak to him if he has made the wrong decision.  I hope that this may give some encouragment to anyone else who has been or is in the same situation.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 16, 2006, 07:26:30 AM
I am on the pill.  I have researched all manner of facts about it from both sides of the argument, and my husband made the final decision on the matter.  I, if I am going to submit to him, must abide by this decision.

Good for you.  Stick by your man.  Might I suggest however; that you take a probiotic supplement on a regular basis?  I took the pill for many many years and it can contribute to liver toxicity, candidiasis and leaky gut which in turn can lead to many other problems, something that may give you more problems in the future.  If you try to keep the probiotics going and make sure you keep your sugars to a minimum, eat a good balance of fats (omega 3s) to help ward off any other possible health problems, I'm sure the Lord will take care of the rest ;).  More on Leaky Gut here. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,603.0.html)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 16, 2006, 07:34:06 AM
I believe that the only non-abortifacient use of Neem is for the male to take it internally. Having said that, we have not yet "put Neem to the test" as we also very successfully use the timing method.

Basically I have been using Neem daily to determine any long term effects. When we decide to have our fourth, we'll try for a few months while I am still on Neem... we'll tell you when it happens ;)

--gabe


SNIP
First of all, congratulations!  Second, did you use the Neem exclusively as BC?  Was curious if it worked all by itself.   :) 

We did try to keep track of timing, when I was fertile, etc... I'm pretty regular, but still have about 3 days fluxuation in my cycle, so I wasn't always totally sure. I'm pretty sure we managed to obstain on my peak fertility days though. The timing method worked for us after my first pregnancy, but not after the second one - I just couldn't tell when I was ovulating.

My third is now almost 2 years old, and I began ovulating when she was 7 months old. So either the Neem really works, or we just managed to ALWAYS get the timing right.

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: shawnaincov July 16, 2006, 08:18:38 AM
Congrats!!!  Thank you for all the info.  My husband & I have been discussing what to do about birth control for awhile now.  He simply refuses to get snipped. ;D  I don't want to either.  I would eventually like to have another but don't like what we are doing now.(condoms)  We had just talked about it and I got my NGJ in the mail that day.  I read your article and then found this website because of it.  WOW doesn't God work wonders.  My husband said it sounds great so we are going to try it!! ;D  Thank you so much!
Shawna
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 16, 2006, 10:04:17 AM

Good for you.  Stick by your man.  Might I suggest however; that you take a probiotic supplement on a regular basis?  I took the pill for many many years and it can contribute to liver toxicity, candidiasis and leaky gut which in turn can lead to many other problems, something that may give you more problems in the future.  If you try to keep the probiotics going and make sure you keep your sugars to a minimum, eat a good balance of fats (omega 3s) to help ward off any other possible health problems, I'm sure the Lord will take care of the rest ;).  More on Leaky Gut here. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,603.0.html)

Thanks HB  ;D  I have actually started doing what you had suggested above.  I am taking a probiotic regularly, and have ordered yeast assassin to try and undo what may have already occurred.  I am going to have to really try hard about the sugar thing...I really LOVE sugar  ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: KatieMac July 16, 2006, 10:10:26 AM
Yes, definitly feel no guilt if you are doing what your husband desires. I really beleive that God will protect you during this time if you are faithful to him!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: catholicmom July 16, 2006, 12:16:15 PM
]Thanks for the imput, but please include research, statistics, etc.. to back up absolute statements. There are some fairly intelligent and researched people here.   

Rebekah
I’m sorry, Rebekah.  I will back up my statements.  I attended a women’s conference in 2005 in Chicago and heard a talk by Dr. Martha Garza, MD.  She is an OB/Gyn, fertility specialist, and reproductive endochrinologist.  She lives and works in San Antonio, Tx.  She had a conversion about 12 years ago after she had several patients tell her that they wanted to stop using the pill, because they had learned that it sometimes caused early abortions.  She brushed these patients off at first, but then began to research it and was blown away by what she discovered.  She couldn’t believe she didn’t learn about this in medical school.  She decided to call some of the doctors that she attended medical school with to see if they had this knowledge.  Maybe she was the only one who didn’t know.  It turns out that it wasn’t in any of their medical books and none of them had ever heard it mentioned in a lecture.  She was shaken by what she learned and saddened by what she had been doing to her patients.  She has since stopped performing sterilizations and will not prescribe any contraceptives.  She councils her patients on NFP and she travels the country giving talks about how our culture has been deceived. 

IUDs are always abortive. 
IUD’s have two main functions: to obstruct transportation of sperm and to irritate the lining of the uterus so that implantation of a fertilized egg will not occur.  This makes it an abortafacient.  (Of course, there is a failure rate with all contraception, so it is possible to conceive.  I shouldn’t have used the word always.)

Every form of chemical contraception can cause an abortion.
This information is available to read at nfpoutreach.org and omsoul.com.  Breakthrough ovulation does occur a certain percentage of the time with the pill, Norplant, and Depo Provera.  The fertilized egg is then unable to implant itself because the lining of the uterus has been altered.  These are early abortions and most women never know that they were ever pregnant.
 It is estimated that a woman will experience one abortion a year for every year that she has been taking the pill. ( Kahlenborn C. "How do the pill and other contraceptives work?" Breast Cancer, Its Link to Abortion and the Birth Control Pill. Dayton, OH: One More Soul; 2000; 315-335.)

All other forms are bad for your marriage.  Including vasectomies and tubals.   
This information comes from a variety of places.  Research shows that couples who practice NFP have a less than 5% divorce rate.  Some say it’s less than 2%.  The Couple to Couple League has data to support this.  ccli.org
Also, Dr. Janet Smith, Professor of Moral Theology at Sacred Heart Major Seminary, gave a talk called Contraception, Why Not.  It is available on audio cassette and CD at omsoul.com   Dr. Smith discusses the reasons contraception is bad for marriage. 

Kimberly Hahn wrote a wonderful book titled, Life-Giving Love.  She says that contraception degrades human sexuality because it reduces a couple to two individuals seeking pleasure.  The woman is rejecting the man’s seed and the man is rejecting the woman’s life giving womb.  Male and female they were created to be.

I hope this was helpful.

Heather

: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 16, 2006, 12:54:06 PM
Thank you Heather, that is exactly what I was asking for! And much more persuasive!

: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 20, 2006, 04:27:26 AM
While I appreciate the sentiments and intentions of the ladies who have posted recently,not everyone who chooses to practice birth control does so out of selfishness. 

: Re: All About Birth Control
: MissusLeata July 20, 2006, 04:31:59 AM
I agree that fertility is God's design. I would be cautious about doing something (whether by drugs, surgery or using herbs) with the aim of "breaking" what God had designed to work a certain way.

Children are a blessing. Fruitfulness is a blessing.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: KatieMac July 20, 2006, 04:53:55 AM
I think one concern would be anyone trying to influence another family's decision. Suppose a wife reads this and then decides to stop using bc against her husband's wishes? It's a good idea to present the information but not a good idea to try to sway someone's opinion drastically.

Also, everyone's situation is different. I have friends who have health problems that make it important for them to space their children. Using something gives them peace of mind.

Another important thing to remember is that GOD is sovereign whether or not you use bc. My mother got pregnant 3 times using some form of "protection." When she felt she should not have more children it greived her, but she felt God telling her to concentrate on the four children he had already blessed her with. I'm sure that part of God telling her this was because of how my father felt. He is a fearful person. Rather than my mom usurping him God released her from the desire to have more children. The vasectomy released my father from fear. It kept the family harmony. I have no doubt that if God wanted them to have more children the vasectomy would have failed, as did the IUD, etc.

For those families who have made this choice...good for you! You are trusting God. But I wouldn't be quick to judge others who are taking a different road. There are many factors. It would probably be ideal to just trust the Lord with the size of our families. But not everyone is at the same level of faith, and you can't force it on other people. It takes a great deal of spiritual maturity to decide God is in control, that you don't have to worry about it because God will take care of it. It takes even more maturity to rest in that knowledge and not judge others because perhaps they are not as sure as you.

Kate- trying to trust God through another negative pregnancy test...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 20, 2006, 05:27:32 AM
Thank you KatieMac....you pretty much put my heart to words.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: IMPersuadd July 20, 2006, 05:32:23 AM
Katiemac is right - we do need to be careful how we possibly influence another lady to go contrary to her own husband.

While I am generally on the side of "trust God" and have been on all sides of the issue at some point, I firmly beleive that something God showed me when I was wanting a baby so badly, was "why wasn't I content with my husband?".  He used the passage in Samuel where Elkanah asked Hannah "am not I better to thee than ten sons?"  I realized then that my primary purpose was to be a wife and to be content with my husband - whether or not we had no, one or lots of children.  That was so freeing and our marriage improved TONS when my actions followed that heart.  Since then He has given us three more for which I am thankful - but I truely believe that God had to bring me to that point first - and I am glad He did.

I personally think we all need to learn to be content with where God has us - no kids if that is His will, few or lots.  :-)

Lori
: Re: All About Birth Control
: diaperswyper July 20, 2006, 06:06:16 AM
If we'd let our men take over this thread, i wonder what they would say..............just a thot. :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 20, 2006, 02:38:06 PM
My husband and I discussed this the other night, and I thought I would toss it out to see what others had to say.  Is is right to obey your husband if he wants you to take a contraception that has an abortifacient side?  I think it is the same as saying: if your husband asked you to rob a store or go on a shooting with him, should you go?  What does everyone think? ???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MissusLeata July 20, 2006, 02:55:30 PM
My husband and I discussed this the other night, and I thought I would toss it out to see what others had to say.  Is is right to obey your husband if he wants you to take a contraception that has an abortifacient side?  I think it is the same as saying: if your husband asked you to rob a store or go on a shooting with him, should you go?  What does everyone think? ???

I agree with you. If I am basically being asked to sin, I have a responsibility before God to respectfully say that I can't participate. I feel that when we must choose between obeying God and man (even if that man is our husband), we must obey God (Acts 5:29).

If a contraception is also abortifacient, I would feel that I would have to decline to use it just as I would decline to get an abortion if my husband asked that. 

My husband and I have talked about this. If I have a conviction against something, regardless of whether or not my conviction is valid (though in the situation of abortion, we have clear commands in Scripture to not do it), my husband has a Scriptural responsibility to not offend my conviction. I Corinthians 8 teaches us that. So, if my conviction is against using a certain form of birth control, my husband, as a man of God is to honor that and not ask me to use it.

(Btw, my husband and I agree on the birth control issue, so, this is not a problem in our home...but if it were, he wouldn't ask me to do something with which my conscience isn't comfortable).
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 20, 2006, 04:00:55 PM
If you want to talk about the health ramifications of contraceptives, whether they are abortifacient or not, you are at the right place. WellTellMe.com is a forum for evidence, research, and experience regarding HEALTH primarily.

Personal convictions, religious preferences, preaching, religious teaching or anything that is aimed at the righteousness, or lack thereof, of another person, is better discussed in private emails, or in a Bible-based manner on 7xsunday.net.

Thank you for respecting the nature of this forum.

Rebekah

: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 20, 2006, 05:19:35 PM
If you want to talk about the health ramifications of contraceptives, whether they are abortifacient or not, you are at the right place. WellTellMe.com is a forum for evidence, research, and experience regarding HEALTH primarily.

Personal convictions, religious preferences, preaching, religious teaching or anything that is aimed at the righteousness, or lack thereof, of another person, is better discussed in private emails, or in a Bible-based manner on 7xsunday.net.

Thank you for respecting the nature of this forum.

Rebekah



Sorry if I was misunderstood.  I wasn't aiming my question at anyone except to see what people's thoughts were on the subject.  It seemed to fit in with the forum.  Again, sorry if I was misunderstood.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 20, 2006, 06:23:29 PM
It was a reasonable question, just in the wrong forum, and with some implications.   ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: shawnaincov July 21, 2006, 04:16:10 PM
The Neem oil from banyan says "for external use only."  I am just wondering if this is the oil that can be used in the capsules or do I need a different kind?  I just want to make sure Hubby doesn't take anything that will hurt him.

Thanks
Shawna :-*
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl July 21, 2006, 05:32:47 PM
Yes, ours says that too, and: "for personal, pet, and garden care..."  :-X

Gabe says to tell you that neem can be extracted different ways, and it's best not to use the stuff that has been extracted with a solvent, because the solvent may still be present in the oil, and is not good for you internally. It's best to look for, and buy, expeller pressed, or cold pressed neem oil. We're not sure ours (Organeem) is solvent free, but will be buying expeller pressed from now on.

The only place we know that sells this quality is organixsouth.com, but you may be able to find it elsewhere. I suppose calling the company and asking would be the best thing to do.

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: shawnaincov July 22, 2006, 02:50:59 AM
THanks a bunch!!! ;D  I will find out.

Shawna :-*
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mrsnoah July 25, 2006, 05:50:53 PM
I can't say what is best for anyone else (except listen to hubby) but I had a tubal done 4 months ago after 3 pregnancy's in 3 years all resulting in preeclampsia and 3 c- sections @ 28 wks, 37 wks, & 32 wks. We felt it could be a life issue for me to keep getting pregnant. I wanted the tubal after #2, but hubby said no. He finally agreed after #3.
 Does anyone have any info on preeclampsia help or hinders? I have a friend who just delivered @ 29 wks and is petrified to try again. I don't have much info as I'm not good at research.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Bethany July 25, 2006, 06:26:50 PM
We decided to have another baby and so have stopped taking the Neem oil...   ;D

Your honesty cracks me up. :P
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 26, 2006, 05:40:45 AM
All posts regarding preeclampsia during pregnancy have been moved to the pregnancy folder in a new thread called Eclampsia & Preeclampsia:  Symptoms and Preventative Cures. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,1526.0.html)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mrsnoah July 26, 2006, 03:00:12 PM
All posts regarding preeclampsia during pregnancy have been moved to the pregnancy folder in a new thread called Eclampsia & Preeclampsia:  Symptoms and Preventative Cures. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,1526.0.html)
Thanks!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 27, 2006, 04:56:15 PM
All posts regarding vasectomy and tubal reversals have been moved to a new thread called
Reversals:  Vasectomy & Tubal Ligation (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,1551.0.html)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mary1103 July 28, 2006, 02:16:50 PM
Natural Family Planning forum:

www.geocities.com/nfpboard

: Re: All About Birth Control
: organixsouth July 29, 2006, 02:21:09 PM
Regarding Layla's question of using neem without the possible abortifacient properties...  Neem has been very safely used, even by pregnant women topically.  In India, it is often mixed with vegetable butter and rubbed into the belly to prevent stretch marks, etc. It can be used vaginally as a lubricant. If you find out you are pregnant, I would stop using the oil. I don't think there is any way it could cause a miscarriage using it this way. If you are already pregnant, I wouldn't use it as a lubricant. Basically as a better safe than sorry. Also the man can take the capsules internally, which would not affect a developing fetus. Like you said Layla, these are my researched opinions only, not coming from the company! Unfortunately, fortunately, any way you look at it ... the FDA is massively in our nutraceutical and herbal product lives, and we really have to watch what we say!

Autumn
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama July 30, 2006, 06:31:50 AM
I wasn't sure were to jump in on this subject... I have read all of the posts. WOW. So my story is this.
I deal with an 35 to 40 day cycle. Has anyone heard of ovulating twice in one menstrual cycle? We tried NFP with surprises everytime as there are so many days that I might be fertile it is just a few safe days with weeks of unsafe days. Doesn't work for us. Although we might try again when having another little one is -well -(manageable, responsible, wise?) Currently we use spermicide most of the time( or condoms on the days I really think I'm fertile.)
 
I'm concerned about possible birth defects caused by only partially impaired sperm when using spermicides both topical or oral. Does anyone have links or sources where I could research the specifics of spermicidal birth control?
Also someone mentioned that chemical BC can be abortive. I consider the spermicides we use to be chemical, but would have never read or heard that they would be abortive. Surely   by the time conception would happen' topical spermicides would be dispersed.Just want to know if anyone has Research they would share with me.

The whole neem oil thing sounds VERY interesting. I hope you keep posting findings and results!!

And this note yet...If your husband really doesn't want the possibility of another child; using BC(cheerfully) can add tons of love and harmony to your home. Maybe even change his mind :)
 Love and thanks to all!

Adding some clarification and an update ;) I understood The billings ovulation method to be the same as NFP. WE have learned differently and are now using NFP as taught by the couple to couple league which is a combination of cervical, mucus,  bb temps, and personal cycle history charted for understanding when your are fertile/infertile. We have been using a very conservative approach and have gone 6 months without conceiving ;D even though my cycles were not consistent because of cleansing etc. Surprisingly my dh LOVES this way and we have been able to adjust to the required abstinence. He would never go back and is even more adamant than I that NFP is a blessing ;D Wow! God has blessed us tremendously ;D
The other note is that I have seen a dramatic improvement in my cycles. I now have 29-30 day cycles with normal body temps and better mucus patterns. The two biggest helps to acheiving this were systematic body cleansing and removal of all amalgam fillings... and both my dh and I are ready for another little one once the cleansing is finished WOW...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: KatieMac July 30, 2006, 08:50:43 AM
I haven't heard of actually ovulating twice in one month but during our NFP class they did discuss something called a "double peak." It is when your body starts the ovulation process and for some reason your body sense it should not release an egg (enviornmental? hormonal? Not sure.) and so it ceases before the egg is released, then later on in the month it starts up again and the egg is released. It can be confusing because it seems like your body is ovulating twice in one month but it's truly only ovulating once.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hollyolly123 July 30, 2006, 04:46:10 PM
This is totally not the right place for this (however, the posts in this section prompted my desire to write) but I just wanted to mention that some of you ladies have really helped me understand the terms "sobriety" and "discression" for which I am so grateful, being a very young wife and mom to two, and very foolish sometimes.  It's great to be able to learn by example.  So thanks!  My husband is probably grateful too ;D, but only time will tell.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 July 31, 2006, 03:59:07 AM
I wasn't sure were to jump in on this subject... I have read all of the posts. WOW. So my story is this.
I deal with an 35 to 40 day cycle. Has anyone heard of ovulating twice in one menstrual cycle? We tried NFP with surprises everytime as there are so many days that I might be fertile it is just a few safe days with weeks of unsafe days. Doesn't work for us. Although we might try again when having another little one is -well -(manageable, responsible, wise?) Currently we use spermicide most of the time( or condoms on the days I really think I'm fertile.)
 
I'm concerned about possible birth defects caused by only partially impaired sperm when using spermicides both topical or oral. Does anyone have links or sources where I could research the specifics of spermicidal birth control?
Also someone mentioned that chemical BC can be abortive. I consider the spermicides we use to be chemical, but would have never read or heard that they would be abortive. Surely   by the time conception would happen' topical spermicides would be dispersed.Just want to know if anyone has Research they would share with me.

The whole neem oil thing sounds VERY interesting. I hope you keep posting findings and results!!

And this note yet...If your husband really doesn't want the possibility of another child; using BC(cheerfully) can add tons of love and harmony to your home. Maybe even change his mind :)
 Love and thanks to all!

Hi!  Here are some links that may help:

 http://www.all.org/search_results.php?searchtopic=spermicide

http://ccli.org/nfp/contraception/methods.php

I haven't looked too much at them, but I think the sources are trustworthy.

: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. Dugger July 31, 2006, 04:37:27 AM
Has anyone here read the book, "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" by Sheila Kippley?  I was just curious if anyone has tried using breasfeeding AP-style to purposely supress ovulation. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: KatieMac July 31, 2006, 05:00:05 AM
That is the method I use. With my first child I didn't get my period back for 10 months, with my second it was 8 months. After that I just used various methods, NFP and barrier. Most of my friends have used this method with great success, some for 18 months or more. It depends on your body type, your hormones, when you introduce solids, etc. I do know one girl who is the AP queen but still gets her periods back at 6 weeks, I beleive it is a hormonal issue with her.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 1N1is6 July 31, 2006, 07:38:47 AM
I've not read ALL of the post on this subject, just a lot, so I don't know if this has already been asked. After #2 I was given depo-prevera in the hospital before I was discharged. I then- with full knowledge and OK from my health care provider- continued taking it for 4 yrs! Only after the birth of #3 did my hubby and I start to become interested in natural health. So we researched depo and our jaws dropped! (It would explain my dentist's shock at my teeth rotting from the inside out.) So now we have been using NFP and not pregnant yet- it's been 11 months.

My question(s)  is this: is there any way to reverse the damage done to my body (I am taking alfalfa daily for my teeth), and  what other damage could there be?
Thanks
~Heidi
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie July 31, 2006, 07:51:10 AM
Has anyone here read the book, "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" by Sheila Kippley?  I was just curious if anyone has tried using breasfeeding AP-style to purposely supress ovulation. 

i am not sure exactly what she teaches, but i think we accidentally did this because my 5th baby didn't sleep through the night until recently, and it's still sporatic.  he slept with us for a long time and still does sometimes.  he is 13 mo.  i have had two really light periods just in the last month.  i think this could have worked with us but we have continued to use condoms out of concern for my health should i get pregnant too soon.  kinda sad about having to do that  :(  but it couldn't be helped.  i think the key is the night feedings/co-sleeping, because i have always gotten my periods back MUCH sooner than this.  what a blessing to be rid of it this long!   ;D 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 31, 2006, 08:32:30 AM
I was just reminded that I read on mercola about lemon juice working like a spermicide would, Just thought I would throw that that out there for those of you that use spermicide but want a natural altertnativie for it.  I have never used it but thought it sounded interesting.

Okay, lemon juice ???  That sounds more than interesting.   ::)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 31, 2006, 08:34:01 AM
So we researched depo and our jaws dropped! (It would explain my dentist's shock at my teeth rotting from the inside out.) So now we have been using NFP and not pregnant yet- it's been 11 months.

My question(s)  is this: is there any way to reverse the damage done to my body (I am taking alfalfa daily for my teeth), and  what other damage could there be?
Thanks
~Heidi

Do you have any links on this.  I'm interested.  I know someone who used this and also has very rotten teeth.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 1N1is6 July 31, 2006, 09:08:42 AM
So we researched depo and our jaws dropped! (It would explain my dentist's shock at my teeth rotting from the inside out.) So now we have been using NFP and not pregnant yet- it's been 11 months.

My question(s)  is this: is there any way to reverse the damage done to my body (I am taking alfalfa daily for my teeth), and  what other damage could there be?
Thanks
~Heidi

Do you have any links on this.  I'm interested.  I know someone who used this and also has very rotten teeth.


OK, here goes:
(I'm not too good at links, so keep your fingers crossed. :-[

www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/8525697700573E1885256F5100513452


The following is from www.thedoctorslounge.net and taken from their forum.

"Depo Provera is a hormone injection that lasts for 3 months to prevent pregnancy. The injection contains synthetic progesterone and no estrogen. It is usually given in the arm or rear, delivering a high level of progesterone into the body. Depo Provera stops the ovaries from releasing eggs. Depo Prover causes the cervical mucu to thicken and changes the uterine lining, making it harder for sperm to enter or survive in the uterus. These changes prevent fertilization. Depo Provera is a very private form of birth control because it cannot be seen on the body and requires no home supplies. It does, however, require a clinic appointment every 3 months. Depo Provera is 99. 7% effective as birth control.

Studies released in 2004 show that Depo Provera is associated with the lost of bone density resulting in an increased risk of osteoporosis. The bone loss appears not to be reversed when the woman goes off Depo Provera. Depo is not recommended for long term use and especially not recommended when the young woman is still growing her bones. Women on Depo are advised to exercise and take in plenty of calcium. If you have taken Depo Provera for more than two years, it might be a good idea to get a bone density test.

Some women have allergic reactions to Depo Provera.

If a woman becomes pregnant while using Depo Provera, and continues her pregnancy, there may be an increased risk of premature birth.

The effects of Depo Provera on breast cancer are still unknown.

70 % of women using Depo Provera gain weight. Almost half of the women using Depo Provera gain more than 5 pounds after one year of use. Many women gain more than 10 pounds.

Irregular, heavy, or no bleeding are common side effects of Depo Provera. After a year of use, many women stop having periods. Lack of a period becomes increasingly common with longer use.

Other side effects of Depo Provera can include headaches, nervousness, mood changes, bloating, hot flashes, decreased interest in sex, breast tenderness, acne, hair loss, and back ache.

After the last shot of Depo Provera, it can take over 6 months for the drug to leave the body. Side effects may linger until the drug is completely gone.
_________________
Dr. Tamer Fouad, MB, BCh, MSc.
Physician Specialist; Medical Oncology, Internal Medicine"

Hope this isn't too much info at once.  :)
~Heidi
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt July 31, 2006, 09:35:08 AM
Thanks. ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mexmarr July 31, 2006, 10:14:02 AM
Has anyone here read the book, "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" by Sheila Kippley?  I was just curious if anyone has tried using breasfeeding AP-style to purposely supress ovulation. 

My mom tried.  She had six babies in 7 1/2 years, no twins.  She was already pregnant before the last baby every had any solids.  I have two, and breastfed them both, I started after 6 weeks, and my girls are 11 1/2 months apart.  I get tired of people telling how breastfeeding will keep me from getting pregnant....  It just doesn't work for my family....

Now my MIL, on the other hand, has a different story.  All her kids are nicely spaced, 2 - 3 1/2  years apart.  She never started back before a year often much longer.  She breastfeed too. 

Sooo.... It wouldn't hurt to try, but don't depend on it.... I know!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie July 31, 2006, 04:20:38 PM
"Did you notice the words - "satisfy, console, delight, comfort?"...(Is 66:10-13) ...We see here that nursing is not an alternative way to feed a baby, e.g. bottle feeding versus breastfeeding. No, it is total mothering to meet the every need of the child. So the breast is used not just to satisfy hunger but also to satisfy, delight, console and comfort."

just keep in mind it's not always an option.  each time i nursed my baby it caused him to scream even louder in digestive discomfort and sometimes he would refuse to nurse.  it's not always a bed of roses.  i would have given anything, including formula to make him a happy baby and bring peace to my home.  i tried several kinds of formula which also made him scream.  then weeks later tried again & he just wouldn't take a bottle of anything, even breastmilk.  it just broke my heart for him to be in so much pain, and be unable to do anything about it.  we tried many doctors, natural remedies of all sorts, carrying him around at all times, nothing helped.  we just did our best each day and made it through until the breastmilk no longer bothered him so much.  he's 13 months and sweet as a peach most of the time.  it was 9 months of total torture for all of us, our last two babies.  but i definitely wouldn't give either of them up!  we just hope to find an answer to all this if we are to have another one.   :-\ 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama August 01, 2006, 11:12:43 AM
All of you who use NFP- Did you just use the book or did you also attend a class? I studied the book and tried NFP with two "surprises". Someone mentioned that in class they were taught about "double peaks" which I think must be normal for me. So would you recommend attending a class?

I agree with the post that breastfeeding (even AP and similar styles) does not work for everyone! :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: joyful_mommy_03 August 10, 2006, 07:13:45 AM
Hi there!  I've been doing some more research on Neem as a male birth control and found the following websites.  (I haven't looked over this post in a few days, so maybe some of this information is already here.  Sorry if I've duplicated.)

http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/others.php#refs

This website has lots of info on different types of birth control for men.  Many of them are drugs used for other things but a side effect was infertility.  As far as natural stuff goes, Neem was mentioned and so was papaya (interesting).  I also checked out the link to "external heat" - the man heats himself for a period of time every day and it says they will experience infertility for up to 6mos.  I plan to check out the studies done on the Neem oil and papaya - but I plan to do lots of things that I never get around to, so we'll see!   ;)

http://www.bytheplanet.com/WhatAilsYou/BirthControl/birthcontrolmen.htm

It looks like this site has some of the same info.  I looked up the "vietmeyer" study reference and found that he has a book out called "Neem: A Tree For Solving Problems".  I cannot get it at my local library.  Anyone else heard of or have this book?  If someone has access to it, maybe they can see if there is a section on male birth control and enlighten us.

I used to work with a large group of doctors in my area before the Lord allowed me to stay home with my kids.  It's been a while, but I contacted someone I used to work with to see if any of those docs were from India - maybe s/he would have more insight as to the use of Neem and any side effects.  One of my remaining questions is whether or not future children have a higher risk of defects after the neem oil use is discontinued.

One question for those of you with husbands already using neem oil - I've checked the prices at several websites and there is a huge difference sometimes.  The OrganixSouth site sells it for $9.50 for one ounce and another site www.neemresource.com sells it for $10 for 8 ounces!!  I'm nervous to go for the cheaper because you usually get what you pay for.  Anything I can look for that would tip me off that the cheaper kind is not 100% pure?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: joyful_mommy_03 August 10, 2006, 07:44:21 AM
Gabe says to tell you that neem can be extracted different ways, and it's best not to use the stuff that has been extracted with a solvent, because the solvent may still be present in the oil, and is not good for you internally. It's best to look for, and buy, expeller pressed, or cold pressed neem oil. We're not sure ours (Organeem) is solvent free, but will be buying expeller pressed from now on.

The only place we know that sells this quality is organixsouth.com, but you may be able to find it elsewhere. I suppose calling the company and asking would be the best thing to do.

Rebekah

Okay - I looked over the last few posts and found that Rebekah already answered the question I had about how to tell whether the neem oil was pure or not.  I emailed the company on the www.neemresource.com website asking how their oil is extracted.  Here is my email and their response:

Good Day!  I have been comparing prices for pure neem oil and found that your company offers relatively low prices.  I was curious to know how the neem oil you sell is extracted from the seed.  Is it extracted with solvents, expeller pressed or cold pressed?
 
Thank you so much for your help!
Jennifer

Good Day Jennifer
The oil is cold pressed from neem seed kernels. It is premium neem oil.
I offer it at relatively low prices as I buy in volume & pass on the savings.
I am attaching a flow chart of the extraction process from the manufacturer.
Best regards,
Usha Rao
The Ahimsa Alternative, Inc.
877-873-6336

The flow chart he mentions is a Word document that follows the process.  It starts at collection (wild collected), drying, removal of impurities, decortication, removal of husk by willowing, crushing kernel of seed by cold process, HPLC testing for aflatoxin, filter process micro filtration which results in the end product that he calls "Plasma Neem Oil".  (If anyone would like the flow chart, let me know and I can email it.)

I was impressed that he got back to me very quickly and that he shared the flow chart.  My hubby is ready to do this and we might order from this site.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jaemom August 11, 2006, 06:04:02 AM
I haven't heard of actually ovulating twice in one month but during our NFP class they did discuss something called a "double peak." It is when your body starts the ovulation process and for some reason your body sense it should not release an egg (enviornmental? hormonal? Not sure.) and so it ceases before the egg is released, then later on in the month it starts up again and the egg is released. It can be confusing because it seems like your body is ovulating twice in one month but it's truly only ovulating once.

I was so glad to run across this information.  We were planning to start using the neem, but were too late apparently.   ;)  We were doing the timing method with condoms, which we've used before, unsuccessfully I might add.  I could never figure out why I kept getting pregnant or why it seemed like I was fertile the whole time I wasn't on my period.  We just thought hubby had strong swimmers.  ;D  At any rate, every time we haven't used a barrier method, we have gotten pregnant.  Would a "double peak" explain this?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Caroline August 11, 2006, 06:18:34 AM
I read on here that it takes about 6 weeks for the Neem to start working if the male is taking it, and then 6 weeks once you get off of it for you to be back to normal again, and ready to try having a baby. That makes me really nervous. What if your fertility doesn't return like it should?  Does that make anyone else nervous. That is a big reason we are not trying it out. I'd love some thoughts on this!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis August 11, 2006, 06:43:33 AM


  each time i nursed my baby it caused him to scream even louder in digestive discomfort and sometimes he would refuse to nurse.  it's not always a bed of roses.  i would have given anything, including formula to make him a happy baby and bring peace to my home.  i tried several kinds of  we just hope to find an answer to all this if we are to have another one.   :-\ 

My last baby was like that until I quit all dairy.I don't know if this would help you or not. I drink a lot of milk and eat cheese, yogurt.... Apparently my son could not digest the milk that i produced while eating dairy. He screamed all the time and had infrequent bowels. I quit dairy within a day he was like a different kid.

I've had 5 kids and never get my cycles back until I wean them usualy after a year sometime. I get pregnant as soon as I wean so I've got to watch out! I thought I might just keep on breastfeeding my son until he's 2 maybe. Then I 'll just keep pumping the rest of my life. LOL Any body need breastmilk? ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie August 11, 2006, 01:26:43 PM


  each time i nursed my baby it caused him to scream even louder in digestive discomfort and sometimes he would refuse to nurse.  it's not always a bed of roses.  i would have given anything, including formula to make him a happy baby and bring peace to my home.  i tried several kinds of  we just hope to find an answer to all this if we are to have another one.   :-\ 

My last baby was like that until I quit all dairy.I don't know if this would help you or not. I drink a lot of milk and eat cheese, yogurt.... Apparently my son could not digest the milk that i produced while eating dairy. He screamed all the time and had infrequent bowels. I quit dairy within a day he was like a different kid.

I've had 5 kids and never get my cycles back until I wean them usualy after a year sometime. I get pregnant as soon as I wean so I've got to watch out! I thought I might just keep on breastfeeding my son until he's 2 maybe. Then I 'll just keep pumping the rest of my life. LOL Any body need breastmilk? ;D

we did this too.  staying away from dairy helped some, but he was fussy from almost everything.  luckily though, we have enjoyed the last 5 months of nursing and i am going to "try" to wean him now at almost 14 months.  i've had enough!!   :o  ::)  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Jessarie August 15, 2006, 05:50:02 PM
Hi!  I also would love to know if anyone has had success with LadyComp.  I don't entirely trust myself for tracking, especially in this breastfeeding phase of life - we're wanting to avoid a pregnancy for a year or two to give my body a chance to recover from this one, and the Ladycomp is appealing since it does all the calculating for you...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 1N1is6 August 16, 2006, 02:41:33 AM
each time i nursed my baby it caused him to scream even louder in digestive discomfort and sometimes he would refuse to nurse.  it's not always a bed of roses.  i would have given anything, including formula to make him a happy baby and bring peace to my home.  i tried several kinds of  we just hope to find an answer to all this if we are to have another one.      

When #3 was born he had an underdeveloped GI system. He was stiff and his tummy was always hard. We had many months of tears/sleepless nights and finally found ourselves on our knees one night. (we were in between houses at the time and living w/my parents who do not believe babies should cry- very stressful) Anyway. My husband got up from that prayer- walked to the fridge, and brought out the ole' Aloe Vera juice. He had used it some years back to cure an ulcer. So baby was given a small dropper of aloe Vera 3x a day. In a week he was crying far less after each feeding, and he was beginning to feel 'looser' in the stomach. We both firmly believe it was thanks to the Aloe Vera juice. I don't know if this will help you, but it worked for us.
~Heidi
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 August 16, 2006, 05:01:25 AM
Hi!  I also would love to know if anyone has had success with LadyComp.  I don't entirely trust myself for tracking, especially in this breastfeeding phase of life - we're wanting to avoid a pregnancy for a year or two to give my body a chance to recover from this one, and the Ladycomp is appealing since it does all the calculating for you...

What is LadyComp?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: joshs_rebekah August 16, 2006, 06:38:01 AM
I don't have a whole lot of knowledge on the different types of birth control, but I would like to put some input in.

When God told Josh and I we could get married, I immediately went on the pill...I liked being on the pill, my moods calmed down hugely, and I was able to enjoy my husband without worry.  However, we realized that, although we said we were letting God decide if we were going to get pregnant, we didn't leave him a whole lot of wiggle room.  When I dtopped taking the pill, the Wicked Witch of the West came out of no where!  It was almost like my emotions had been stored up for the three months I was on the pill, and they were being released with a GUSH!

My emotions calmed down after a while...my husband is SO VERY patient with me!  We were both happy - life is much simpler when we let God do His job!  Until Hurricane Rita!  My husband and I stayed behind on one of our ships to ride out the storm (which is a good thing as the ship we were on got loose - all mooring lines snapped or broke the bits they were tied to).  Somewhere between Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, my beautiful Ruth was conceived.  Shortly after Rita, my period disappeared and I couldn't figure out why I was so tired...my Mom had to tell me!

All this to say, I am all for letting God be God.

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Tanya August 19, 2006, 07:47:37 AM
We are really liking the Billings ovulation method. You can check out the book at the library. Found out about it on Focus on the Family. It is natural. It is free. It is healthy. It only uses cervical mucus to determine fertility. Coming from Fertile Myrtle it has worked for two years!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mary1103 August 24, 2006, 06:59:38 AM
Has anyone here read the book, "Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing" by Sheila Kippley?  I was just curious if anyone has tried using breasfeeding AP-style to purposely supress ovulation. 

My mom tried.  She had six babies in 7 1/2 years, no twins.  She was already pregnant before the last baby every had any solids.  I have two, and breastfed them both, I started after 6 weeks, and my girls are 11 1/2 months apart.  I get tired of people telling how breastfeeding will keep me from getting pregnant....  It just doesn't work for my family....

Now my MIL, on the other hand, has a different story.  All her kids are nicely spaced, 2 - 3 1/2  years apart.  She never started back before a year often much longer.  She breastfeed too. 

Sooo.... It wouldn't hurt to try, but don't depend on it.... I know!

My mom spaced her children using Lactation.  My body doesn't respond to lactation (i.e. I still ovulate) so I just use NFP (We are Catholic)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: marybplank September 09, 2006, 10:46:20 AM
My pregancy with my third baby was very rough.My health was  not good at all.With my other 2 pregnancies I didn't have much of a problem.My husband was so kind as to help me with everything and he still wanted me around so my we prayed about what we should do and felt like we should get my tubes tied.It was a very hard decision but we got it done after I had the baby.I wished I would have been more informed about it before I got it done but wasn't.I have three little ones and want to raise them for the Lord.Maybe in the future we can adopt a little one.I'm very thankful for the 3 that I have.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis September 14, 2006, 12:07:47 PM
OK everyone, I ordered the Lady-Comp natural family planning device. My Ob/gyn told me they work very well. They are pricey but the sight I ordered from lets you make monthly installments of I think it was $37 with no intrest charges. It is 99.3% effective. It will also tell you if you have become pregnant! It tells you your fertile days and can tell on what day you are likely to start you period. I got it today and it's pretty detailed in the set up. I plan to start tomorrow. You take your temp. every morning before you get up. I'll let every one know how it goes. I'm a very fertile person, so if it keeps me from getting pregnant it works. LOL
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lewisquiverfull September 14, 2006, 05:28:13 PM
I guess I missed something, What is Lady Comp??? Does insurance cover it?
We have let God have control of our fertility the past 3  years, and we have had a baby every 2 years, next one due if Feb., I think after this one,  I would like a short break to enjoy my husband and children without my hormones being crazy.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy September 15, 2006, 01:51:17 AM
Charis, which site did you get it from.  It looks interesting and if we could do it on installments, I would LOVE that!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. Davis September 20, 2006, 11:52:01 AM
I am new here but I just had to jump into this conversation.  My name is Vicki ad my dh and I have been married 21 years and have eleven children.  After the last one, I am feeling wiped out!  My body is not what it use to be and things take longer to get normal again. 

Anyway, we have been thinking about gettin a LadyComp so to see it come up in conversation got me thinking about it more.  Do you like it so far Charis?  I know you haven't had it very long, but do you find in convenient so far?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: naelund September 20, 2006, 03:45:34 PM
I checked out the site, www.malecontraceptives.com and it seems from studies mentioned on there, that papaya seed extract might be even more effective than neem oil. The stronger the better for us.  :) I'm preganant with blessing #4 and need a break after this. Our oldest is in Kindergarten and homeschooling him is a bit difficult sometimes with an active 3 year old and a determined 17 month old. I'm also quite tired a lot during my preganany (I always get anemia and low blood sugar- been taking alfalfa and Supermom this time). I've been pregnant or breastfeeding for 6 years of marriage. With every baby, my period would come back exactly one month after. No matter how much I breastfed. I also seem to have more than one peak day during a cycle, so makes it difficult to plan sometimes :). We've done NFP throughout the marriage. My kids love babies though and alway tell me to have lots and lots of babies! Last night, my oldest said, "mom, I love babies. I want 100 babies! Can we have 100 babies?" Gotta love that. ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt September 21, 2006, 04:32:24 AM
I am new here but I just had to jump into this conversation.  My name is Vicki ad my dh and I have been married 21 years and have eleven children.
Unless I missed something, I think you hold the WTM record for the most kids.   :o Congrats!  Wow, you are my hero.   ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: fish7inTN September 29, 2006, 08:46:09 AM
I have spent the last 30 min. reading every comment on all 6 pages of this discussion.  I wish I had checked it earlier.  We have 4 kids (spaced 19-24 mths. apart) and number 5 is on it's way.  Nursing has always been our form of birth control.  But after number 4 we thought about adopting instead and were forced to talk about B.C. since we decided not to go back to the pill.  We did NFP by Debi's recommendation years ago - got the Focus on the Family tape, the Ovulation Method book w/ calendar, stickers and all.  It worked for us but it made my hubby very very frustrated. Basically as someone mentioned long ago, it makes 1/3 of the mth. off limits (and it wasn't a sweeter time for us, I promise!) or use condoms.  Well, that just made my husband very upset to have to use condoms.  Thus number 5 was conceived.  I was just going to check into the diaphram, thinking I could use that during that 10 day off time, right around the time I conceived.   :o

So correct me if I'm wrong, but no one has mentioned the diaphram.  Does anyone recommend this in addition to the NFP method?  We just need something to help those off days (Of course I won't need this for over a year, but just covering the grounds now).  Rebekah, didn't you mention that you use NFP with the Neem?  I might have misunderstood and have no clue which of the 6 pages to check.   :-\ I just need something to use for those 7-10 off days that is non-evasive with no bad side effects.  Is Neem something that needs to be taken daily during (like the pill is) or something you can take just when ovulating?  My body is pretty clear about when it's a "ripe" time and when it's not.

: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie September 29, 2006, 06:24:06 PM
i heard about this thing about a year ago, but haven't bought one yet.  i just heard about it again the other night.  a not sure of it's name, but it looks like a lipstick tube.  inside there is a glass that you lick.  you then put it on the tiny flashlight.  you let it sit for 20 min.  after 20 min you check, if you see one or two ferns, you are beginning to get fertile.  if you see more or if it's covered with them then you are very fertile.  if you are not fertile you will see crystals.  it costs about $75, though my friend bought a cheaper version over the net.  it was $25.  she wasn't thrilled with it though. the midwife who told us about it said a record should be kept of what you find each day.  i wish i could share my experience, but haven't actually done this yet.  i just thought it sounded great.  she said it's been used in england for more than 10 years.  a great way to check your fertility if it works!  has anyone else heard about this???  ???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi September 29, 2006, 06:57:24 PM
So correct me if I'm wrong, but no one has mentioned the diaphram.  Does anyone recommend this in addition to the NFP method?  We just need something to help those off days (Of course I won't need this for over a year, but just covering the grounds now).  Rebekah, didn't you mention that you use NFP with the Neem?  I might have misunderstood and have no clue which of the 6 pages to check.   :-\ I just need something to use for those 7-10 off days that is non-evasive with no bad side effects.  Is Neem something that needs to be taken daily during (like the pill is) or something you can take just when ovulating?  My body is pretty clear about when it's a "ripe" time and when it's not.
I have had a diaphram for several years now and have not had any problems with it.  I felt like I was "all thumbs" at first.  It takes a little practice.  The only thing I don't like about it is having to leave it in for at least 6 hours.  :(     
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis September 30, 2006, 02:41:52 AM
I am new here but I just had to jump into this conversation.  My name is Vicki ad my dh and I have been married 21 years and have eleven children.  After the last one, I am feeling wiped out!  My body is not what it use to be and things take longer to get normal again. 

Anyway, we have been thinking about gettin a LadyComp so to see it come up in conversation got me thinking about it more.  Do you like it so far Charis?  I know you haven't had it very long, but do you find in convenient so far?


I love it so far. I haven't found it inconvenient at all. It wakes you with a very gentel alarm and you take your temperature. I just set the alarm for the time I would be getting up any way. It gives you a 6 hour window to take your temp. 3 hr. before alarm and 3 after. So if a baby wakes up an hour before your alarm goes off you can go ahead and take your temp before you get up just in case you might not be able to go back to bad. You have to take your temp before starting to move around. It's still learning my cycle so I haven't had any green lights yet(nonfertile). As soon as I have a period it will be able to tell my cycle. I forgot to take it with me once when I went to my mom's. I've done that with the pill before too. Not so good to miss a pill, it doesn't really matter with the ladycomp especially when it learns your cycle. I'll keep ya'll posted.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maideninwaiting September 30, 2006, 06:37:25 AM

We have let God have control of our fertility the past 3  years, and we have had a baby every 2 years, next one due if Feb

I so admire women like you (and the dear lady with the 11 blessings)!! Its such an honor to allow GOD be the CONTROLLER! Bless you and your lovely family!

About the diaphram which someone mentioned: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure that because it prevents a fertilized egg from planting in the uterus, it is an abortificient, as well as the "pill" itself.  :'(
: Re: All About Birth Control
: SarahK September 30, 2006, 07:43:58 AM

About the diaphram which someone mentioned: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure that because it prevents a fertilized egg from planting in the uterus, it is an abortificient, as well as the "pill" itself.  :'(

The daiphram is a barrier between sperm and cervix.  Thus the name indicating a membrane like the one between chest cavity and abdominal cavity.  They are similar to a cervical cap and often are used with spermicide. 

The conception is prevented by blocking sperm from entering the cervix.  If enough sperm get by the diaphram, they can travel on & potentially fertilize an egg.  The diaphram does nothing to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.

You may be thinking of an IUD (inter-uterine device).

Please correct me if I'm wrong -it's been about 10 years since I reviewed these sorts of things...

Sarah K
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt September 30, 2006, 07:47:49 AM

We have let God have control of our fertility the past 3  years, and we have had a baby every 2 years, next one due if Feb

I so admire women like you (and the dear lady with the 11 blessings)!! Its such an honor to allow GOD be the CONTROLLER! Bless you and your lovely family!

About the diaphram which someone mentioned: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite sure that because it prevents a fertilized egg from planting in the uterus, it is an abortificient, as well as the "pill" itself.  :'(
As far as I know the diaphragm is a barrier method just like a condom.  Unless you add spermicides there is no chemical reaction.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt September 30, 2006, 07:52:22 AM
  Rebekah, didn't you mention that you use NFP with the Neem?  I might have misunderstood and have no clue which of the 6 pages to check.   :-\ I just need something to use for those 7-10 off days that is non-evasive with no bad side effects.  Is Neem something that needs to be taken daily during (like the pill is) or something you can take just when ovulating?  My body is pretty clear about when it's a "ripe" time and when it's not.
I have no personal experience with this, but Beka's husband is the one who takes the Neem and he takes it daily for the intentions of birth control.

http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,785.msg5107.html#msg5107
: Re: All About Birth Control
: fish7inTN September 30, 2006, 08:52:47 AM
Thank you for the information on the diaphram.  I don't mind the 6 hrs. prior as I would just use it on the off-days and could make the time a planned time w/ hubby.  I just wanted to see if any of you had heard, read, or had personal experiences that were negative - like infections, irritations, etc.  If so, please pass those along.

Another question about the Neem was if your husband is taking it daily, do you have to still avoid the fertile days?  That seems the be our issue over here is the 1/3 mth. off stuff.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mexmarr September 30, 2006, 06:14:27 PM
I don't mind the 6 hrs. prior

I think that you can actually insert it at the last minute, if you choose.  Its gotta stay in 6 hours afterwards, to prevent the sperm from reaching the eggs.

I've never used one, but have read about them. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mamaketler October 01, 2006, 04:23:06 AM
 Ovoulation tester! i bought one at walmart for 20 bucks. But..... I also got pregnant with #4. ;D Mybe i am no sciencetest after all. LOL  You have to do it 2 hours after eating and drinking anything. best time is in the morning.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maideninwaiting October 01, 2006, 05:40:48 PM
You're right about the diaphram. I did have it confused with  the IUD. I am still uncomfortable with ANY form of birth control, but that's just me and my "insane" convictions".  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi October 01, 2006, 06:34:06 PM
I don't mind the 6 hrs. prior

I think that you can actually insert it at the last minute, if you choose.  Its gotta stay in 6 hours afterwards, to prevent the sperm from reaching the eggs.

I've never used one, but have read about them. 
Yes, you read right. 

I chose a diaphram because I had so many miscarriages we needed to use something.  (I just don't think I can handle another one.)  And I didn't want to use a method that would actually let conception happen and then not let it implant.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi October 01, 2006, 07:16:18 PM
I just wanted to see if any of you had heard, read, or had personal experiences that were negative - like infections, irritations, etc.  If so, please pass those along.
Nope.  No infections or irritations here.  I haven't heard of any of these being a problem.  I don't know if there could be a problem with someone being allergic to the rubber in them.  You could ask you doctor about that.  You would have to go to be fitted for one. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy October 02, 2006, 02:04:18 AM
If you are allergic to latex you could very well have an allergic reaction to any natural rubber product, including a diaphragm or latex condoms.  If you have not experienced prior difficulty with latex/rubber then don't worry, otherwise, you should be cautious.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: marksgirl October 16, 2006, 08:21:41 AM
My kids love babies though and alway tell me to have lots and lots of babies! Last night, my oldest said, "mom, I love babies. I want 100 babies! Can we have 100 babies?" Gotta love that. ;D
Congrats on having an oldest child who WANTS more younger siblings!  It's been my experience that most firsts are a tad more selfish and really don't care a lot about having more children join the family.  i can say this with some authority because I was #1 of 3, and my oldest (son) is the same (currently 7+step-siblings).  He loves the younger ones, sure, but I think that HE thinks he'd be better off without them!  Of course I know better.  My dh's oldest (girl) was/is the same, although I think a lot of her ambivalence towards the younger ones was her mom leaving them in her care for the past several years.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mexmarr October 16, 2006, 08:51:29 AM
It has been mentioned before, but kinda got passed over.  I am interested in information about spermicide.  Does anybody know anything about its pros/cons?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: AnnaBanana October 16, 2006, 09:14:34 AM
Wow, thank you for all this good information!  We are far from being done with having children, but vasectomy was the route I was most interested in.  Not dh!  ;)  Now, I see he knows what he's talking about.  LOL!  We use the P&P method when we don't want to get pg, but I'm thinking God built in an automatic timer for me.  I'm 19mo postpartum from my second and still no ovulation.   :o  Rebecca, I am really interested in the further study of the neem oil as well.  I'd even be a tester for it right now if we weren't wanting to get moving with the third.  :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 October 16, 2006, 12:10:22 PM
It has been mentioned before, but kinda got passed over.  I am interested in information about spermicide.  Does anybody know anything about its pros/cons?

 Spermicide


What is it?
A spermicide is a chemical that kills sperm. One type of spermicide, Nonoxynol-9, is the main active ingredient in nearly all popular brands (foams, creams, jellies, vaginal tablets, suppositories and sponges). There are many brand names of spermicides, including Ortho-Creme, Gynol II, Semicid, Conceptrol and Delfen.

A spermicide can be used alone as a method of birth control. But because the failure rate is so high, it is often used with a condom.

How does a spermicide work?

A spermicide must be used no more than an hour before intercourse if it is to be effective in killing sperm. If the hour passes, the spermicide may no longer work.

Do spermicides have side effects?

Yes. Some affect either women or men:

vaginal or penile irritation and itching
vaginal or penile soreness
Spermicides also offer no protection against sexually transmitted diseases including AIDS.

There are additional side effects for women:

vaginal discharge
vaginal dryness
painful urination
toxic shock syndrome
possible birth defects in future children

Source: www.all.org

: Re: All About Birth Control
: linemansgirl October 24, 2006, 08:49:02 AM
So is everyone that has the LadyComp happy with it?  I am very interested in getting one, but it is quite the investment.  :o  I knew that it had been mentioned that it was expensive, but expensive was about half of what the price actually is to me.  So, is it worth it?  I'm trying to find something that both DH and I can agree upon.  Maybe your input will help him.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: marksgirl October 24, 2006, 11:09:17 AM
I haven't tried it; I just take my temp and chart it along with my cervical fluid.  It would be cool to have, but an unnecessary expense for us.  I did start using fertility friend (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/) online for free.  I'm pretty sure I heard about here on WTM.  It's pretty cool, but since I'm bf'ing, my cycles are pretty erratic, and so it's not sure when to predict my fertile days or the day my period will start.  I imagine the online thing and lady comp both are more accurate once you've established a few regular cycles for the computer to compare.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy October 24, 2006, 11:57:51 AM
So is everyone that has the LadyComp happy with it?  I am very interested in getting one, but it is quite the investment.  :o  I knew that it had been mentioned that it was expensive, but expensive was about half of what the price actually is to me.  So, is it worth it?  I'm trying to find something that both DH and I can agree upon.  Maybe your input will help him.

DH and I are planning on talking about getting one soon.  I will repost if we do get one and hopefully share some insight about whether we like it or not.  I do know that many places will allow you to pay interest fee monthly installment payments over a year's time.  I think it averages out to about $37 per month.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: livin4him October 24, 2006, 02:41:18 PM
Know I'm jumping in the middle of things here... what about "children are an heritage of the Lord ,and the fruit of the womb is HIS REWARD!!"(emphasis mine) or "the LORD opens and closes the womb''? I feel that Christians should not "limit" God- if God opens the womb- who are we to try to control it? I know very few families who feel this way- but am greatful for each one . Who of you don't want as many rewards(children) as God will give you?  Not me . May the LORD show you his will in each area of your lives :) :) :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hollyolly123 October 24, 2006, 03:33:51 PM
Don't forget about our husband's feelings about the subject, and a woman's blessed position under his authority (and protection!) regardless of anyone's convictions about the subject. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. Davis October 25, 2006, 05:05:25 AM
Know I'm jumping in the middle of things here... what about "children are an heritage of the Lord ,and the fruit of the womb is HIS REWARD!!"(emphasis mine) or "the LORD opens and closes the womb''? I feel that Christians should not "limit" God- if God opens the womb- who are we to try to control it?

You know, I felt that strongly about 3 children ago.  I was saying the very same thing.  We now have eleven children and I know that they are all a blessing and a reward.  However, I am tired.  My body is tired as well.  My DH and I have decided that for us to know my cycle and time relations around that is the best thing for our relationship and our family at this point.  We could never do anything permanent or chemical, but just avoiding relations during certain times is something we both agree on and have prayed about. 

I wonder how many people with lots of children never have s*x because they are afraid of pregnancy.  They might say they are trusting God, but honestly, having relations when you already have a house full and are tired anyway is scary thing.  It would be tempting to avoid each other in that area all together if you had no idea of how a woman's body works.

I really think the Lord wants EACH couple to seek Him on the matter CONSTANTLY.  That is what is important.   Strong marriages and healthy families bring glory to Him.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy October 25, 2006, 05:07:50 AM
Know I'm jumping in the middle of things here... what about "children are an heritage of the Lord ,and the fruit of the womb is HIS REWARD!!"(emphasis mine) or "the LORD opens and closes the womb''? I feel that Christians should not "limit" God- if God opens the womb- who are we to try to control it? I know very few families who feel this way- but am greatful for each one . Who of you don't want as many rewards(children) as God will give you? Not me . May the LORD show you his will in each area of your lives :) :) :)

This portion of the topic was already discussed quite extensively earlier in the post.  You may want to read some of it, if you are interested.

Might I re-emphasize the point made earlier that wives are to be subject to their husbands in this decision.  You are protected by your husband's authority.  So trust him and trust God to lead your husband rightly.

I believe that there is room for differing opinions on the matter, but the line must be drawn when trying to convince a person that they are doing the wrong thing by following their husband's judgement.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis October 25, 2006, 06:06:20 AM
So is everyone that has the LadyComp happy with it?  I am very interested in getting one, but it is quite the investment.  :o  I knew that it had been mentioned that it was expensive, but expensive was about half of what the price actually is to me.  So, is it worth it?  I'm trying to find something that both DH and I can agree upon.  Maybe your input will help him.

OK so I love my LadyComp. $37 a month not bad. Works out to be what birth control usually costs anyway. Just a word of advice.......don't have sex when the light is yellow unless you wish to be prego or you use some other sort of contraceptive that day to prevent pregnancy. ::) ::) ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: linemansgirl October 25, 2006, 06:25:28 AM
Thanks so much!  We talked a lot about it last night and I think we have just about decided to go for it.  Thanks for the tip on the yellow light.  ;)  It sounds like you are speaking from personal experience.   ;D  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic October 25, 2006, 08:47:46 AM
Hey Charis, I am curently nursing my 7 mo. old son and have not had a cycle in 3 years because of pregnancy or breastfeeding.  My husband is currently taking the NEEM oil, and we are going to invest in a LadyComp.  Should I wait until my cycle returns to purchase one? 

We have been advised that we shouldn't have any more bio-kids (for my health) and my husband and I feel we should adopt the rest anyway.  So I don't want to get prego the first time I ovulate post-partum (like I did with baby #2, hence no cycle).  But with baby #2 my first ovulation was 12 mos. after he was born--- so it could still be another 6 mos. or more before I ovulate.  I have checked the site and know they offer technical support the first year free of charge, and I don't want to waste that on time I am not really fertile. 

Does that make sense?  Would you wait?  Thanks!

PS  I think some people's quivers may be smaller than others... just a thought.  :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy October 25, 2006, 09:19:37 AM
PS I think some people's quivers may be smaller than others... just a thought. :)

I tend to agree :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Livelovely October 25, 2006, 09:39:23 AM
 so I just use NFP (We are Catholic)


I used NFP until I got pregnant and that was the end of that.  I thought it was a great system to get pregnant with, but not for birth control.  There were few times that the charting allowed for relations to occur and that was not good for marriage.  I am one of the fortunate ones that lactation is my birth control until I wean or I should say, I have to wean in order to get pregnant.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis October 25, 2006, 10:45:44 AM
Hey Charis, I am currently nursing my 7 mo. old son and have not had a cycle in 3 years because of pregnancy or breastfeeding.  My husband is currently taking the NEEM oil, and we are going to invest in a LadyComp.  Should I wait until my cycle returns to purchase one? 

We have been advised that we shouldn't have any more bio-kids (for my health) and my husband and I feel we should adopt the rest anyway.  So I don't want to get prego the first time I ovulate post-partum (like I did with baby #2, hence no cycle).  But with baby #2 my first ovulation was 12 mos. after he was born--- so it could still be another 6 mos. or more before I ovulate.  I have checked the site and know they offer technical support the first year free of charge, and I don't want to waste that on time I am not really fertile. 

Does that make sense?  Would you wait?  Thanks!

PS  I think some people's quivers may be smaller than others... just a thought.  :)


Yes you need to wait for your cycle to return. I talked to the service rep about this very question. I know it's a long time to wait, but necessary for the temp readings to accurately chart ovulation days. I ordered mine from www.naturalmethods.com Susan is the service lady and is very helpful. I just love that I'm going to wake up to an alarm anyway so this is nice. It has a clock that stays lit when you have it plugged in. I finally had my own alarm clock! It has a very nice alarm sound unlike my husbands. :P Hope you like it as much as me. Read the instruction book really good. Entering  your BMI is tricky but I just emailed Susan and she walked me through it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic October 25, 2006, 10:57:33 AM
Awesome!  Thanks; that was very informative.  I'm sure I'll dig it.  We did the regular thermometer and write down your body temp every morning for 2 mos and got prego with number one.  I'm not really good with numbers... or charting... and my cycles are irregular.   But I like to say "G-d had other plans".  It makes me sound less ditzy!   ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 October 25, 2006, 11:46:34 AM
so I just use NFP (We are Catholic)


I used NFP until I got pregnant and that was the end of that.  I thought it was a great system to get pregnant with, but not for birth control.  There were few times that the charting allowed for relations to occur and that was not good for marriage.  I am one of the fortunate ones that lactation is my birth control until I wean or I should say, I have to wean in order to get pregnant.

The Couple to Couple League has a great NFP program.  They also teach and emphasize how to build your relationship and be intimate with your spouse during abstinate times.  I haven't yet used the program myself, but have heard and read about it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama October 25, 2006, 01:32:48 PM
We just recently started NFP taught by the couple to couple league. This is different from the natural family program we "tried" ;) before. Give NFP through C_C_L  a try if you are wanting BC without herbs/drugs/orchemicals.
It is a lot of abstinence especially since we do NOT need to get pregnant with the health things we are going through, BUT even my dh says it is better than using BC that we didn't feel totally comfortable with. After a weird surprise pregnancy/miscarriage despite two forms of BC we feel more comfortable with this. According to your own conscience you can find ways to take care of dh.
so I just use NFP (We are Catholic)


I used NFP until I got pregnant and that was the end of that.  I thought it was a great system to get pregnant with, but not for birth control.  There were few times that the charting allowed for relations to occur and that was not good for marriage.  I am one of the fortunate ones that lactation is my birth control until I wean or I should say, I have to wean in order to get pregnant.

The Couple to Couple League has a great NFP program.  They also teach and emphasize how to build your relationship and be intimate with your spouse during abstinate times.  I haven't yet used the program myself, but have heard and read about it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl October 25, 2006, 01:36:57 PM
Rebekah,
I am sending you a personal message because I wasn't sure if you would notice a random post.   You said that you and Gabe were using the Neem oil, and now I've noticed that you are expecting, CONGRATULATIONS!!!  I was wondering if you were "suprised" by this pregnancy or if the Neem oil worked as long as you were using it?  We are also expecting, #5, and I get severe morning sickness and dh thinks this might be the last time the family can endure it.  We are both personally opposed to getting the surgery for either of us, as well as using the pill or anything abortificant, and so we're trying to check out our options before we are in need of something.  Would love to hear your experience with the Neem.  Feel free to copy and paste this in a thread if you want to share publically.  Thanks for your time, Mrs. H

Just an update and clarification. My husband took Neem oil in capsules for 18 months, during which time I ovulated every month, while nursing our last baby. We also kept to the timing method during my peak ovulation days as best we could tell - I didn't always know for sure. I believe I was off once or twice, but mostly succeeded in knowing when I was ovulating. The last month he took Neem, I'm pretty sure we came together when I was near my peak day of ovulation, but no pregnancy resulted.

He stopped taking Neem oil in April of 2005. Six weeks later I conceived with this current pregnancy. I expected it to take another month or so for the Neem to be out of his system enough to allow for conception, but the six weeks were obviously sufficient. We did want another child, and so the pregnancy was not really a surprise.

I believe the Neem does work, but also plan to continue with the timing method as well after this pregnancy, as double insurance.

As a side benefit, the Neem oil successfully combatted and destroyed a long-term systemic blood infection that kept recurring whenever Gabe sustained an open wound. He was very healthy and disease resistant during that 18 months, which may be incidental, or it may have been the Neem oil.

There is more information about the effects of Neem oil as a birth control earlier in this thread for those of you who joined the discussion recently.

-Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama October 25, 2006, 01:55:24 PM
Thanks for clarifying the timing, Rebekah. When you posted about the pregnancy I tried to estimate and was wondering if the neem worked at all ;D
Maybe we could try neem. I had pretty much written it off ;D I guess I should have just asked!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: queentea October 25, 2006, 02:20:41 PM
: BeeyoutifulGirl
He stopped taking Neem oil in April of 2005. Six weeks later I conceived with this current pregnancy.

-Rebekah

WOW that is one long pregnancy :D,  You give the elephant a run for her money ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ForeverGirl October 25, 2006, 02:29:04 PM
Woops - LOL. No doubt. Yeah, it was obviously 2006.

Rebekah
: Re: All About Birth Control
: russiabear October 25, 2006, 08:01:51 PM
Where is a good place to order Neem Oil?  Back on page one you mentioned www.organixsouth.com

They have pure Neem oil 1fl. oz. for $10.95 - is that what you're talking about?  And just take 2-3 drops per day?

I'd like to order some and was just wondering where...?
Thanks!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mrsjtwalker October 26, 2006, 09:13:46 AM
So is everyone that has the LadyComp happy with it?  I am very interested in getting one, but it is quite the investment.  :o  I knew that it had been mentioned that it was expensive, but expensive was about half of what the price actually is to me.  So, is it worth it?  I'm trying to find something that both DH and I can agree upon.  Maybe your input will help him.

I haven't posted here before, but thought I'd offer my experience about Ladycomp.  My husband and I used Ladycomp successfully after my daughter's birth for about 10 months.  I am a, "fertile myrtle," let me tell ya, so I know that it was effective!    :)   I conceived our first baby 2 weeks into our marriage while using NFP lazily, and sometimes condoms.  After that we got our Ladycomp and used condoms only on the, "red light" days (for those unfamiliar with the device, it gives green lights for, "safe" days, yellow lights for, "cautious" days, and red lights for, "fertile" days, which for me were only 3 or 4 per month).  We usually just treated the yellow lights like green lights after the first month or two, and still had success.  The very first that month we ignored the red light, I got pregnant!

I should mention, I have always tended to have irregular cycles, and this device still worked well for me.  I purchased a refurbished one from www.naturalmethods.com and saved over $100.  For me, though, even the price of a new one would have been worth it, because it literally does all the work of charting for you, and all you do is take your temperature early in the morning, and then go back to sleep if you want.

I don't have experience to support this, since I was unable to nurse my firstborn past 8 weeks, but my guess is that Ladycomp would work for a nursing mother whose cycles have returned, though it would probably have a larger margin of error.  It works based on your body's patterns, so it should be able to tell, based on your BBT, if you're ovulating, regardless of whether you're nursing or not.  It might take a couple of months following your pregnancy to be accurate, though.

Sorry I can't give more experience . . . after my 2nd baby was born 15 months ago, I wanted another right away, so we didn't use the Ladycomp at all.  It still took me a year to get pregnant (I'm due May 2nd), but I was nursing exclusively for 8 months, and then still frequently until his first birthday, so not too surprising about the delayed fertility.  If it were up to me, after the research I've been doing lately about neem as a male contraceptive, and then reading this wonderful thread, I'd rather go that route, just because it's less work and you'd never, in theory, need to watch for fertile days.

HTH!

-  Lauren
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic October 26, 2006, 11:54:47 AM
Thanks, Lauren.  I have always had irregular cycles, too.  I mean irregular.  Like, 6 mos. and no cycle (before I got married so there was no chance of pregnancy).  I am a small build, so that probably has something to do with it, but it's nice to know that the LadyComp isn't going to tell me "Error" because I'm irregular.  Congrats, too, on your pregnancy! 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: russiabear October 30, 2006, 06:03:01 AM
*bump*
ShabbyChic or anyone else taking Neem oil..
Where do you buy yours??  I would like to order some this week and have found several places on-line... is organixsouth a good place??   Is 100% Neem oil and 100% Neem seed oil the exact same thing??  Confused..

Thanks!  I mean this is NOT something I want to buy the wrong stuff for! ;D ha!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy October 30, 2006, 06:55:38 AM
It is almost decided...we are probably going to buy the ladycomp.  Those of you who use it, where did you purchase yours from?  I would like to get the best deal, and I hear there are some places who will allow you to pay for it over a year?  So any suggestions would be much appreciated.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Charis October 30, 2006, 07:05:05 AM
www.naturalmethods.com
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic October 30, 2006, 09:42:02 AM
Natural Methods seems to be the best place to buy the lady comp, and Banyan Botanicals has the best deal on neem.  You get 4 oz. for like $12 when you include tax and shipping.  The cheapest place to get the capsules (to put the neem in) is Bulk Herb Store.  Here are the links:

banyanbotanicals.com (http://banyanbotanicals.com)
bulkherbstore.com (http://bulkherbstore.com)

If you'd like to buy the neem in capsules that are already made, they are more expensive, but the site is Organix South.

organixsouth.com (http://organixsouth.com)

My husband puts about 6 drops in a capsule and takes one in the morning and one before bed.  We are very fertile, and so it might be overdoing it, but 7 mos. post partum with my second and I'm just getting "back".   As far as I know (not much) the neem oil and neem seed oil are the same; you can call the folks at Banyan and ask them ANYTHING.  They are very knowledgeable.

We will also do the lady comp as soon as my cycle returns.  I think using the neem and lady comp combo will be good.  And on a somewhat related note, it really makes so much sense to me for the husband to take the herbs as he is our head of household. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kristin_19_78 October 30, 2006, 12:35:52 PM
there are alternatives to the LadyComp that are less expensive

Ladycomp is a fancy thermometer and mini-computer that takes the woman's temperature and does the needed calculations to determine fertility. It's pretty expensive, and it relies on body temperature - which can be thrown off by a fever, use of an electric blanket, or forgetting to use it before you get out of bed on a cold morning.


Persona reads hormones in urine. Once you have it calibrated, you only need to test 8 times a month. IN addition to the cost of the device, there is $10 to $15 a month for test strips.


Luna reads hormones indirectly. It uses saliva rather than urine, and has no ongoing expense. It's also the least expensive of the three

: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy October 30, 2006, 02:39:37 PM
I also found that you can purchase a refurbished lady comp for about two hundred dollars less than you would pay for a completely new one.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Bethany November 24, 2006, 09:03:02 AM
another option you might check into is the OV watch: http://www.ovwatch.com/ or Clear Blue Easy Fertility Moniter. I've heard that eBay can be a good option for better deals on those, too.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic December 01, 2006, 03:29:41 PM
Anyone heard of this?  What are your thoughts?

essure.com (http://essure.com)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi December 01, 2006, 06:58:31 PM
Anyone heard of this?  What are your thoughts?

essure.com (http://essure.com)
This sounds like maybe it forms scar tissue with the implants to build the barrier.  Then you have to have the dye and x-ray test to make sure the tubes are blocked.  Does this sound like what you understand it to be? 

First of all- I won't encourage anyone to have something done permanently.  Nor will I condemn them for having it done.  Every couple knows what's best for them.  I do see lots of couples that have surgery for permanent birth control and then they regret it.  I have been there and done that.  So I try not to be the "ex-smoker".  You know, those are the ones that hate smoking worse than the folks that have never smoked.  So, I try not to be the one that spouts off louder than the ones that have never had a tubal.  KWIM?

Secondly- Anyone looking into the permanent methods of birth control, please do lots of research concerning whatever method you are thinking about.  What is the actual procedure?  What could be done if you do regret it later?  How many different procedures are there?  (Like the different ways a tubal can be done.)  And what method is the easiest to reverse?  What complications can arise later?  Like circulation problems, scaring, etc.

Thirdly- I guess I would want to know how big these implants are and how much of the tubes will be damaged.  Has anyone had an allergic reaction to them?  Will your body try to fight them off?

Missi       
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt December 02, 2006, 05:50:02 AM
Anyone heard of this?  What are your thoughts?

essure.com (http://essure.com)
essure contraindication sheet. (http://essure.com/Portals/0/Skins/Conceptus_Skin/PDFs/CC-1077-01_30Jan06F_ConsSafetySummary_English.pdf)

They only have 5 years worth of research and it doesn't sound all that great to me.  I was one of the guinea pigs for the Norplant.  I'd be very leary of such a new procedure.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy December 10, 2006, 06:23:37 PM
Ok, followup report on Lady Comp.  WOW, I love this thing.  It is really easy to use once you get it set up and so far it has been really working well.  I love when it shows the green light ;)  For those of you who have one, you will know what I mean!  I HIGHLY recommend this product.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic December 11, 2006, 05:05:47 AM
Oh no, nothing permanent in this house.  Hubby has been crystal clear: neem oil, lady comp, and prayer.  If more babies come, then hallelujah!  I just saw an ad for essure in the weekly newspaper circular and was wondering if anyone had any personal testimonies. 

I guess my question is, does it sound like the essure people are implanting a plastic and then letting scar tissue form and then removing the plastic?  So the scar tissue blocks any eggs from passing, as opposed to tubal ligation where the tubes are cauterized.  Is that right?  Or does the plastic stay there forever? 

Mostly I as because I have a friend with an I.U.D. (Mirena) who says it is a continuous bother, and they are looking for something permanent without hubby getting snipped.  I'm just unclear on what to tell her. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt December 11, 2006, 06:52:05 AM
I guess my question is, does it sound like the essure people are implanting a plastic and then letting scar tissue form and then removing the plastic?  So the scar tissue blocks any eggs from passing, as opposed to tubal ligation where the tubes are cauterized.  Is that right?  Or does the plastic stay there forever?
It sounded to me like the pieces are permenant--like a little cork in the tubes.  It said in the contraindications that out of all of the women who participated, some had to have the pieces reinserted.  I also got the impression that reversal may not be an option (if there are complications).  They don't have enough evidence to support whether reversals would be successful.  Personally, I'd probably go with a tubal (I have had one).  I know they are more invasive (less so these days - it's outpatient like gallbladder surgery), but if hubby wants permanent, then that seems to be the most tried and true method that works most of the time.  I've heard more negatives on vasectomies than tubals.  Some others may have different opinions on this, but it's my 2 cents.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: savedbygrace December 11, 2006, 12:20:40 PM
We want to have as many children as we can without cheating any of the already existing kids out of attention, training, etc... so timing is a good thing, in our opinion. Two years in between seems like time for me to get physically recovered, and the youngest to become a "kid."


Rebekah

I feel this way too.
We decided about 4 years ago to just trust in the Lord for babies, but now.... We have 3 babies each 15 months apart. I don't mind having the babies, its just that I don't feel like I have enough time to give enough specific attention to their training and I think the first couple years is so important! We were doing great at the training thing when we had just one! My #2 takes a lot of time and extra attention.  Now we are using condoms and like someone else on this thread said, it does seem to interfere with our relationship! I am so afraid of getting pregnant again! My youngest is 3 months. I have been blessed to have healthy pregnancies and never had to have a c-section yet. I just get pregnant too quickly for my sanity! The kids need a sane mommy and my hubby needs a nice wife!! Some times I go 3 days with not enough time for a shower!!  :P Did anyone find out any more about the Papaya being used for birth control?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ginimom3 January 11, 2007, 08:15:05 AM
Has anyone one done the temperature and NFP with success? I am about to start my 5 month old on solids and this is when I got pregnant the last time. 3 C-sections in 3yrs we are doing the NFP but since I am nursing I can't really tell when I am ovulating so we are abstaining for three weeks at a time.  I need something more substantial.  The Ladycomp is too expensive and my hubby is leery about the Neem oil any suggestions? can you do the fertility monitor if you haven't started your cycle?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: marksgirl January 13, 2007, 04:54:34 PM
My little guy is 8 months now; my cycles started back at 3 months  :-\(previous babies it waited until I introduced solids.)  So far I've been successful with not getting pregnant by mostly observing fertility signs and charting my temp (when I remember to take it...or actually got a few hours of sleep! ::))  The first cycle ended up being 49 days, and the "signs" came and went a few times.  It is frustrating to not know for sure when you're fertile!  It's become much more regular now; successive cycles were 37, 32, and 34 days, which is normal for me.
Abstaining for 3 weeks of every month is NOT good!  It drives me nuts to go without for one week at a time! ;D  I'm assuming you've read book(s) about NFP and know how to read the signs...if there are any?  If you can encourage your dh to "read up" on the topic as well, maybe he'd be willing to learn how to...uh...read the signs himself? ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs.Michael January 17, 2007, 09:51:46 AM
Hi, I also have a question.
Ive looked online for answers and I cant seem to get a direct yes or no....nor a consistant answer.

1) Will the Ortho-Trycyclen I Have been taking for the last 6 months hurt my chances of conceiving without delay?

My husband and I are trying....but Ive been taking the pill for a while and I want to know how long its going to be before Im normal again..
Ive heard a few scary things about B/C Pills and...I dont really think I'll be taking them again. I just want to know what my odds are and how long it will be.

Thanks!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: K.Sarah January 17, 2007, 11:03:47 AM
I used to be on Ortho-Tricyclen too, before I read up on birth control.  I don't know about anyone else, but I have to say it never delayed ANY of our children's conception.  I was pregnant practically the minute I came off the pill, though you are really supposed to wait a few months and let the stuff get out of your system.  That never seemed to work for us. :) 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic January 17, 2007, 11:23:54 AM
I took Ortho-Novum 7/7/7 (low-dose) and got pregnant immediately after I stopped taking it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: savedbygrace January 17, 2007, 05:44:15 PM
I never took it but I had a friend who did and her cycle was way out of whack for over a year. She did end up getting pregnant and had her baby just recently. Her baby was in perfect health. Then again, my mom was on the pill when she got pregnant with me. I guess it varies with every woman. Every woman's body responds differently. Sorry! I know that's not much help!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: heatheronthehill January 17, 2007, 06:18:30 PM
1) Will the Ortho-Trycyclen I Have been taking for the last 6 months hurt my chances of conceiving without delay?

It depends upon you and your body.  Some people get pregnant right away, for some it takes their bodies awhile to ovulate again, as while you are on the pill, you are not [supposed to be] ovulating.  (though it can occasionally happen)  When I got off ortho-trycyclen, it took me two months to ovulate and though it has been 8 months since I got off of it, I still don't feel like my body is entirely back to normal.  (I was on the pill for 4 years.) 

It is recommended that you wait for a while after taking the pill before getting pregnant.  Several good reasons...  Even though you may be ovulating (and you would have to in order to get pregnant), the pill can change the makeup of the fluid lining your uterus. 

You see, the pill works in three ways,
1) keeps you from ovulating
2) causes you to have thick cervical mucous (normal mucous is needed to transport the sperm to the egg)
3) makes your uterine lining a "hostile environment" thus inhibiting implantation of a fertilized egg

It can take up to a year for all of this to get back to normal.  You may be ovulating, but you may still have a "hostile" uterus.  How do you know if things are back to normal?  You should be able to tell by how the fluid is looking when you are on your period.  When it looks like it did before you were on the pill, lasts about the same amount of time it used to, then you're about there!

*sigh*  All of this is stuff that my gynecologist didn't tell me when she prescribed the pill.  I was told - oh everything is fine - this is the "responsible" thing to do...  Anyway, I've learned better now, and I'm much better informed! 

(This information from "The Garden of Fertility" by Singer)

I have observed that many friends and cousins coming off the pill who have conceived right away, but have miscarried.  I see this too many times for me to think it is a coincidence, and it breaks my heart that they must suffer in this way.  I hope this helps you as you and your husband begin this exciting new stage in your life!   :)  I'm happy for you!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama January 25, 2007, 11:23:28 AM
  Hubby has been crystal clear: neem oil, lady comp, and prayer.  If more babies come, then hallelujah! 

ShabbyChic, I was wondering how the neem oil is going.  Or if you've had to say "hallelujah" already  ;) ;) :D :D :D  I'd really like neem oil to work, but don't want to be the guinea pig.  So I was wondering if you or anybody else on here can give success (or UNsuccess) stories about it.  We are using condoms right now because I'm afraid to get pregnant.  We have a 5 year-old, 3 year-old, 2-year-old, and 3 month old.  So I am rather tired of being pregnant.  I LOVE my babies, but I also love my husband and he needs a happy helpmeet, too.  I am nursing and don't usually start my periods until about 5-6 months postpartum.  Any ideas or stories would be helpful to convince my husband that neem oil does work!  ;D Thanks.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama January 26, 2007, 05:54:14 AM
***bump***
I'd really like to know if it works!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock January 26, 2007, 06:01:01 AM
So I was wondering if you or anybody else on here can give success (or UNsuccess) stories about it [neem oil]. ...Any ideas or stories would be helpful to convince my husband that neem oil does work!   Thanks.

Ditto!
WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama January 26, 2007, 10:09:58 AM
bump - again!  ::) ;D ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Gods_child January 27, 2007, 10:35:35 PM
ALL I CAN SAY IS READ THIS BOOK: TAKING CHARGE OF YOUR FERTILITY BY TONI WESCHLER!!!!!!!!!!!!  Great book and probably no better birth control out there!!! Good luck!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: HapEMom January 29, 2007, 05:30:38 PM
I didn't see where using a diaphram was mentioned...I might have missed it.
We have used a diaphram & condoms for almost 5 years and they have worked 100%. I did have a miscarriage a year ago but my periods were so messed up that my crazy Gyn. told me I wasn't ovulating so we quit using anything and I got pregnant that very month. I ignored my pregnancy symptoms and chalked it up to other things and miscarried around 8 wks. I was so upset...
But that's another story. We alternated using the diaphram/ condoms depending on who was initiating ;D and who felt responsible  ;)

HTH anyone who's contemplating methods,
Amanda
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Eviesmom January 31, 2007, 10:17:23 AM
Since becoming more educated about the birth control pill and having a increased number of the side effects since starting on them again. Me and my hubby decided for me to quit taking them. The weird thing is my period came this month and I didn't even know it was coming. No cramps/sore breasts or anything.  I was so sick with side effects last month for almost two weeks. That is so odd to me, the symptoms the pill was supposed to help really didn't alleviate until coming off of the pill? Hmmm. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: skederbear January 31, 2007, 12:02:17 PM
 We had been using neem for a while,plus spermiside,just to be safe.  Well when I wanted to get pregnant again I stopped using spermicide and my husband stopped taking the neem. It says that it takes 6 weeks to wear off,so i figured that I pobably wouldn't get preganant,and I didn't. The next month I was!!!! I am due in june and having a girl! (=  We will def use neem again the next time around. I is sure less hassle,and I don''t have to take anything.  Plus it halps the immune system so my husband didn't get sick even when the flue went around! Just a nice bonus(=
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 01, 2007, 10:56:38 AM
Thanks, skederbear, I appreciate the testimony.  I'm hoping I can get my husband to take neem oil once I start my periods.  I have a 3 month-old and probably won't get them back for a few months yet.  Again, thanks.  Anymore neem oil success stories out there?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: dixiedarlin31008 February 03, 2007, 05:52:23 AM
I am new to the board, but absolutely love all the info!

Ok, I am getting married in August and my fiance and I would like to wait a while to have children until we are more financially able to provide for all the cost. I am not, under any circumstances, wanting to use a clinical birth control but would rather keep it natural. To many women in my family had permanent damage from birth control and I would rather not risk it.

I was wondering if anyone has used the BBT method and how well it worked for you. I am also wondering if any one has used in barrier methods (diaphragms, caps, lee's shields) and you thoughts on that. My fiance has told me that he is not going to take or wear anything so it is up to me.

If anyone has any thoughts or comments or can direct me to a previous topic that pertains to this subject, I would appreciate it!  :)

Thanks
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy February 03, 2007, 06:14:17 AM
If you go ahead and type birth control in the search box at the top of the page you will get a wealth of information.  You can also type in Basal Body Temperature and get a bunch more information.

We actually use the Lady Comp and have been VERY happy with it.  You can search for that as well and come up with some discussion on it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. Visionary February 03, 2007, 08:43:35 AM
Hi DixieDarlin,
I think the Billings Ovulation Method is very good. It is a method by which you learn to monitor your own fertility symptoms. It is best to learn from a trained instructor who can guide you in the nuances of the method but you can also learn it on your own by going to the website which has lots of information about how to chart and what the "rules" are, etc.
Before you get married is the best time to learn as you can more easily observe and learn to recognize your basic infertile pattern.
It's also best to learn the method as a couple so you both understand the method and can make decisions together.
Best Wishes and hope you have a wonderful wedding!
Heidi

I noticed while I was getting the link below that they actually have online teachers now for a modest fee.


http://www.woomb.org/index.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: heatheronthehill February 03, 2007, 09:42:15 AM
There are several things to consider when choosing a birth control method (or combination)...

- How important is it that you NOT conceive?  If you did conceive, would you and your husband be o.k.?  Just talk this over and think about it, because some birth control method are more effective than others.  I highly recommend the book, "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Weschler.  There is a chart on pg. 355 detailing the typical user failure rates and method failure rates for various forms of birth control. 

- How willing is your husband to abstain during certain times of your cycle?  Using FAM (charting your cycle's fertility signs) or if you buy a LadyComp, you never HAVE to abstain, but if you are using it for birth control, you will either have to abstain or use a barrier method of some kind for about 30% of your cycle.  (TCOYF pg. 367) 

We have been using BBT and charting since May for birth control.  Some things that I have really learned that are important - It is tremendously helpful if your future husband learns and charts along with you.  If he understands what is going on, then you will be able to make decisions together! 

I recently got myself into a mess that I feel could have been avoided if we had done this together.  I had delayed ovulation - REALLY delayed due to stress.  I got tired of telling him that he would have to wear a condom and seeing him so disappointed, so I fudged the rules just slightly.  I thought we were two hours away from being infertile and I thought we would be o.k., but I wasn't sure and we really should have waited a whole day longer to be sure.  We thought we got pregnant from that, but it now appears that we didn't, but it was awfully stressful there for a while!  Turns out he has had a lot of doubt in his mind all along even when I would tell him that we were o.k..  We are learning from this incident and now I'm teaching him how to read the charts so he can know for himself what is going on.  You can't bend the rules, or it will come back to bite you!  :) 

I love BBT charting though, and I'm very, very happy with it!  I love knowing what is going on with my body.  I would never go back now.  Hope you find something that works out for you!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock February 03, 2007, 11:15:45 AM
Another thing for anyone to consider when choosing a method of birth control is:
-- How important is it to you that a fertalized egg not be aborted. Some birth control methods (the pill being the only one I can think of right now but there may be some others) have that as a method of "preventing" pregnancy. Do your research if this is an important issue to you.
WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Elizab04 February 03, 2007, 01:06:36 PM
Another thing for anyone to consider when choosing a method of birth control is:
-- How important is it to you that a fertalized egg not be aborted. Some birth control methods (the pill being the only one I can think of right now but there may be some others) have that as a method of "preventing" pregnancy. Do your research if this is an important issue to you.
WR

Basically all chemical contraception has the potential to abort.  Two of my sisters were given types of BC from their doctor.  The doctor said that the BC didn't work as an abortifacient, but from later research my sisters both found out they were given misinformation.  Research is important.

http://ccli.org/nfp/contraception/methods.php

http://www.all.org/issues_birthcontrol.php

These sites have some info. on basic workings and possible risks.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild February 03, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
Billings Ovulation method is great. Very easy to learn. I found it online and easily picked up everything I needed to know. You will need a back up method or need to abstain during your fertile time.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock February 03, 2007, 05:07:48 PM
Basically all chemical contraception has the potential to abort.  Two of my sisters were given types of BC from their doctor.  The doctor said that the BC didn't work as an abortifacient, but from later research my sisters both found out they were given misinformation.  Research is important.

Absolutely. I did my own research on this years ago and even called a few local pharmacists to see what their info said. One particular call will always stick with me... She was a wonderfully cheerful and helpful pharmacist and after reading some information from her reference book I stopped her and asked didn't that mean that it could, and in many cases would, abort a fertilized egg. She basically said "What?" as in which part was I talking about (she sounded surprised). So I repeated what she had just read and asked again. She fell silent like she was rereading it to herself, and then slowly and in a decidedly sadder tone, she said, "Yes. It does mean that." I believe she had never thought about it before and now that she knew, it really disturbed her.

Another pharmacist became so angry at my question that he abruptly ended the conversation.

Some doctors brought this issue up to the AMA and wanted them to make it mandatory for patients to be told of this function of the pill before they consented to take it. There was no debate from anyone as to the truth of it, they admitted that it was true, but the AMA still ruled that doctors do not have to tell their patients about this. They felt that this info was not important to the health and wellbeing of the patient. I disagree.

WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 03, 2007, 05:33:01 PM
Just curious, how is it that doctors say that the pill has no abortifacent properties?  This is exactly what my doctor told me:  today's birth control pill is not like your mother's.  It keeps fertilized eggs from being able to implant in the uterine wall.  Yes, of course conception begins when the seed and egg meet, but if it does not implant then it is not able to sustain.  Without birth control, eggs and seeds meet all the time, but only some of them are able to latch onto the wall, the stronger ones.  And even then sometimes your body spontaneously aborts, most of the time before your cycle even comes, and you never even knew you were pregnant.  Those were fertilized eggs that were abnormal.  If the fertilized egg is strong enough it will penetrate, and that is the 3% error we state right here.  Those other eggs weren't strong enough anyway.  Regulating hormones helps your body do what it should be doing anyway.

And I bought it all.  No one ever talked to me about anything, and I was 100% ignorant until a friend pulled me aside.  I do not go to that doctor any more, but is there another camp out there, or was she lying?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock February 03, 2007, 06:01:14 PM
According to my research and what was read to me from the pharmacist's desk reference...

If the pill were all estrogen then it would simply prevent ovulation. But when an all estrogen pill was tried some VERY nasty things happened and women died! So, they found they had to reduce the amount of estrogen -- hence todays "low-dose" pill (the only kind made anymore). BUT the amount of estrogen that would make it "safe" was too low to prevent ovulation on a reliable basis and there were a lot of breakthrough ovulations. So progesterone was added as a backup. This makes the uterus "inhospitable". It does this in two ways. One is that it makes the mucus thinner and so it's somewhat harder for sperm to travel and the second is it makes changes to the lining of the uterus so that it is very hard for a fertilized egg to implant or stay implanted. This second effect is by definition a chemically induced abortion.

Many people don't consider a woman to be pregnant until the egg implants and so they do not consider the prevention of implantion of a fertalized egg to be an abortion. I think that some doctors rationize it this way. And some are just like that pharmacist and just don't think about it at all. And some, no doubt, are just ignorant of this aspect of the pill.

WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen February 03, 2007, 06:18:43 PM
Many people don't consider a woman to be pregnant until the egg implants and so they do not consider the prevention of implantion of a fertalized egg to be an abortion. I think that some doctors rationize it this way. And some are just like that pharmacist and just don't think about it at all. And some, no doubt, are just ignorant of this aspect of the pill.

Yes, science doesn't recognize 'pregnancy' until the zygote (fertilized egg) has implanted into the Endometrium. I believe it takes a few days from conception to impantation.

That's why the Morning After Pill is not considered abortion by science. Officially, it's not ending a "pregnancy", because it removes the baby before implantation.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. Visionary February 03, 2007, 07:57:15 PM
-- How important is it to you that a fertalized egg not be aborted. Some birth control methods (the pill being the only one I can think of right now but there may be some others) have that as a method of "preventing" pregnancy.

The IUD also prevents pregnancy by preventing implantation of the fertilized egg.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jethiessen February 08, 2007, 03:04:46 PM
Hi, this is my first time posting on a forum, so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right.  Rebekah, I'm also really interested in trying the neem oil contraception.  I've looked at several websites that sell neem oil, and all of them say the product is not for internal consumption.  Which oil do you use that is safe, or do you just ignore the warnings of for external use only?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 08, 2007, 03:43:16 PM
I'll take a stab at that question (or you can go to the right here ------------------------------------> where it says "member's list" and go to "BeeYoutifulGirl" (that's Rebekah) and at the bottom it says "send this person a personal message."  Some folks will write "PM" them, and it means send them a personal message.)

When you look at different oils of any kind, some say food grade and others say not for consumption (usually massage oil grade to be used as a carrier oil or as a base for other herbs to be added to). 

Sexually active women should not consume neem internally because it could cause harm.  See posts # 2, 8, 9, and 20 on this thread.  The post numbers are in the top left corner of each persons comment.

This is a fun site, welcome!   :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 13, 2007, 08:41:23 AM
Ok, ladies, we're going to try the neem oil.  ;D  My dh read this thread and more info from ShabbyChic - which helped tremendously in making up his mind.  He says we'll try it.  So thanks, ladies, for your input.  I guess we'll have to let you all know if we get a, umm, surprise!  :o 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 15, 2007, 07:24:50 AM
Well, we received our neem oil the other day.  My husband said if he couldn't take it without putting it in capsules then he probably wouldn't take it at all.  It would just be one more step he'd have to do.  So, when it came in the mail, I just HAD to watch him take that first swallow.  :P  Wouldn't you know, he slugged it down no problem!!  :o  He loves to workout lifting weights and so has taken all sorts of nasty-tasting protein shakes, low-carb shakes, you name it.  He said the neem oil wasn't really good, but wasn't really that bad either.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: shawnaincov February 16, 2007, 11:00:11 AM
Hi!  I haven't got to be on the forum in a few months.  I have something to tell all of you about the neem oil.  It doesn't work for everyone!!!  My Hubby and I tried it and only it.  We didn't use any other Natural Family planning or anything.  I am due June 27th!!! :o  Yes it was a shock!! :o  My Hubby used it faithfully for a couple months while we did "other" things for it to get into his system.  Then we decided to try it with just the neem.  I got prego. that month.  Just thought I would warn you.  We are glad now.  We had two girls and one boy.  This one, we found out a couple weeks ago, is a boy too. Good luck!!
Shawna :-*
: Re: All About Birth Control
: linemansgirl February 16, 2007, 11:03:44 AM
Hi!  I haven't got to be on the forum in a few months.  I have something to tell all of you about the neem oil.  It doesn't work for everyone!!!  My Hubby and I tried it and only it.  We didn't use any other Natural Family planning or anything.  I am due June 27th!!! :o  Yes it was a shock!! :o  My Hubby used it faithfully for a couple months while we did "other" things for it to get into his system.  Then we decided to try it with just the neem.  I got prego. that month.  Just thought I would warn you.  We are glad now.  We had two girls and one boy.  This one, we found out a couple weeks ago, is a boy too. Good luck!!
Shawna :-*

LOL!!!  Congratulations!!!  The Lord always knows best! ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 16, 2007, 11:05:27 AM
Congratulations!!!
 Babies are SO precious.  And I second what you've said 100%.  Neem oil is best used in conjunction with NFP, the lady comp, or some other device or spermicide if your goal is not getting pregnant.  Anyone using solely neem and not paying attention to abstaining or using a barrier during ovulation can definitely get pregnant!  
: Re: All About Birth Control
: shawnaincov February 16, 2007, 11:22:46 AM
OH YEAH!!!!!  You can say that again!!!! ::) ;D
Shawna
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 16, 2007, 11:57:43 AM
Tee-hee...  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: dara February 16, 2007, 12:02:39 PM
REALLY good to know! Thank you for sharing!

And congrats...   :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 16, 2007, 12:32:35 PM
So, I wanna know, ladies.  When exactly do you start using something in conjunction with neem oil?  Three days before you ovulate till one day after?  I'd kinda like to know because I'd like to postpone a surprise if possible.  ;)  We just started neem oil, and my cycles haven't returned yet since I'm nursing.  So, I've got a little time.  MAYBE!!!  ;D ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 16, 2007, 02:57:48 PM
Shawna, I was wondering if you could tell us how much neem oil your husband was taking.  Would that make a difference as to how effective it is?  Thanks.

Kendra
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 17, 2007, 08:07:39 AM
Shawna, I was wondering if you could tell us how much neem oil your husband was taking.  Would that make a difference as to how effective it is?  Thanks.


**bump**
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 17, 2007, 11:06:34 AM
I've not had a cycle since 2003, but we're planning on buying a LadyComp as soon as I have my first cycle.  There's a chance we could get pregnant the first time I ovulate, but we're praying I have a cycle.  The ladycomp you use every day.  It tells you when it is safe to have relations, when it's iffy, and when it's likely you'll get pregnant. 

I'm not regular enough to follow NFP with just checking cervix and mucous, so I don't know too much about it, but my guess would be that you would use a barrier or abstain during the fertile time. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hsmamafl February 19, 2007, 03:28:59 PM
I know you have done more research than I have on the neem oil so I also wanted to ask a question.  Has anyone been able to find a reliable reference on the possibilities of birth defects with its use?  When you described how it worked that was the first question to come to my mind, but I haven't been able to find a good resource to answer it.

Thanks for any help in pointing me in the right direction.
Michelle
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 19, 2007, 05:33:32 PM
In reply #20 Rebekah says:

"We had the same question, but could find no recorded occurance of this happening.

 I haven't heard of anyone in the US doing research on neem as a contraceptive. It has been used for centuries in India, and none of the research we've read has linked birth defects/problems with the use of neem as a contraceptive. But, as you said, it is still a question that should be clearly answered one way or another. I'd love to talk to a doctor from India who has more experience and research in this subject.

We have been using neem as a contraceptive for over a year now."
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hsmamafl February 19, 2007, 05:46:35 PM
Oh, thank you! I've been reading through the thread for a few days so I must have forgotten reading that.   :-\

Thanks again,
Michelle
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ~esposita~ February 25, 2007, 08:55:26 AM
Well...for the record, Neem didn't work for us!  :o   ;D  I have no idea when I'm due, since I never had a period.  I guess I won't be doing the Master Cleanse.  Oh well! 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: tiffanyjwi March 13, 2007, 04:58:21 PM
I am so glad I came across this topic.  We have 3 children ages 4, 2 and 10 months and are not sure if we want another or not.  Anyway, my husband is going to be 40 this year (I am 33) and we have been discussing having one more vs. doing something permanant.  He seems to be leaning more towards having another where as I feel pretty good about just having 3 but I have left the decision up to him.  This has been a very helpful topic to read through and I appreciate all the good info that I am reading.  I have been using the depo shot since the birth of my last baby, but recently stopped it due to weight gain, low libido and etc.  My question is, does anyone know how soon you get your cycle back after stopping the shot?  And is it possible to get pregnant right away after stopping? 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kymdenise March 14, 2007, 08:45:32 AM
Wow this is a huge thread.. I've been reading it over and trying to speed read.. just got to page nine to learn the function of the "Pill".. When I read my little insert in my mini pill package, it said something about thickening the mucus so sperm can't make it to the egg, or even past the cervix.. So is the mini pill abortive? Because my husband wants a boy SO badly.. I have prayed and prayed and prayed, and three girls later, I'm afraid to get pg again. I told him I wanted to wait until the baby is in school, becuase I'm just so affraid of having another girl, and having him be dissapointed. He loves his girls, but he is not a believer, so its as if we are just going to have babies until he gets his boy (and I would Love a boy.. don't get me wrong) but would submitting to him only to have another girl be wrong? I mean.. I just don't know what to do.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie March 14, 2007, 10:28:08 AM
the pill can be abortive...first it prevents ovulation(non abortive), 2nd thickens mucus so the sperm can't swim through it (non abortive) and last if there are stilll some persistent liitle swimmers and a disobedient egg it can make the lining in your uterus unhospitable for the baby to implant in(abortive) although I've had women argue with me on this point...the question is does life begin at conception or not? I say it does! . women always reason with me that the chance of getting pregnant (therefore the abortion) is so rare...but hey I personally don't want any chance of that...but the rare part always seems so funny to me cause I'm sure we all know at least one person who has gotten pregnant on the pill  so it makes me wonder how many more are getting pregnant and losing the bby without knowing it...you would probably just have what you would think would be a period
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi March 14, 2007, 11:17:44 AM
... would submitting to him only to have another girl be wrong?
How could it be wrong?

Missi
: Re: All About Birth Control
: freshisbest March 14, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
I was told the odds of having a different sex after 3 was much greater than after 2 of the same. Worked for me!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Shaundra March 14, 2007, 12:02:13 PM
Hi my name is Shaundra. I saw your recent post and I wanted to tell you our story. My husband is a full-time pastor now, but while we were in seminary we had 3 precious boys. After about a year of being there we began to talk about having another baby. I love my boys to pieces, but I have always wanted a little girl to dress up and do all those fun girl things with. Well, I was talking to another seminary wife about this and she said, "Shaundra, have you ever PRAYED for a girl?" I thought for a minute and realized that I had always prayed that it was a girl AFTER I found out I was pregnant. Well, she promised to begin praying for us and suggested that I ask a few more godly women to pray with us. We decided we would begin trying during our anniversary mini-vacation. We prayed, and we also got online and found out all the weird old wives tales on how to have a girl. We tried them all out on our vacation and had a blast and still laugh about all the funny things we did. But, when I found out that I was pregnant with our first little girl, I knew that it was God who had answered our prayers.  We feel so blessed and grateful to our friends who prayed alongside us for our sweet little girl.She was born on St. Patrick's Day 4 yrs. ago this Sat. We are now pregnant with little girl # 2!!! I tell you all this to ask, do you pray before you are pregnant and have you asked other godly people to pray alongside you? It might even be worth checking out all the silly old wives tales for having a boy! Most of all, remember that God knows what your family should look like. Be submissive to your husband. God will bless you for honoring that relationship. I hope you dont mind me sharing my story with you and I hope it encourages you.  ~Shaundra
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kymdenise March 14, 2007, 12:38:20 PM
I'm so glad to hear your story! I did do a lot of praying before my second and third pregnancies, and I know the Lord knows best.. I had bought the book "How to choose the sex of your baby".. the Dr. Shettles method, and we were going to try that, but baby girl 3 (my little Birdi) was our little "broken condom baby".. We still laugh about it. Anyways, when I asked if I should submit only to have another girl, I didn't realize how it would sound. If my husbands asks, I do. It's hard sometimes becuase he doesn't trust in the Lord, but I do, so I know that makes it okay. I just hated the dissapointed look with each baby at the hospital.. he LOVES them of course, but you know.. He is leaving the timing in my camp, I just don't know how to deal with the fear of letting him down again (and don't let this sound so sad... like I said, we are happy) it's just hard to not be able to fulfill that one paticular desire of his. I guess this concern has wandered away from the thread, so I'll wrap it up.. With my last 2 girls, my mother in law (who is wonderful, but sometimes doesn't consider her words) was so shocked, because each time she and others were "believing for a boy".. like I said, I trust God's decisions, oh but my hubby's heart longs for a son. Thus the current concern for birth control methods.. but the pill's gonna go!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi March 14, 2007, 02:29:45 PM
... I just don't know how to deal with the fear of letting him down again ...
Do you think that you are letting him down? 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kymdenise March 14, 2007, 03:59:13 PM
... I just don't know how to deal with the fear of letting him down again ...
Do you think that you are letting him down? 
No.. I know better.. the whole y chromosome thing... I'm the kinda gal that likes to make things happen.. my husband is a great guy, hard worker, and family man. I just hate knowing he is dissapointed. I think he's way harder on himself about the whole thing.. If anything, I have my own selfish motives.. I crave that moment when one of our babies is born, that he'll be grinning from ear to ear, or crying happy tears.. becuase I gave him a son.. man is this sounding primitive.. but it is what it is. And if the day comes, and we do have another girl,  I know it's God's plan.. I guess at the base of it is this: Is it wrong to keep having babies until you get what you want? Is it fair to each baby girl I have, that she wasn't what we prayed for? (this sounds awful!! once again, each one has been a blessing, and completes our lives in her own way.. )
: Re: All About Birth Control
: his.silly.wife March 14, 2007, 05:12:04 PM
I guess at the base of it is this: Is it wrong to keep having babies until you get what you want? Is it fair to each baby girl I have, that she wasn't what we prayed for? (this sounds awful!! once again, each one has been a blessing, and completes our lives in her own way.. )

I think I know what you are saying.  It all depends on how the other children are treated.  I know families where some or all the children were conceived while mom was on birth control, and the children knew this and subconsciously knew that they weren't really wanted.  I know other families where they wanted either a girl or a boy, and when they finally got the desired child, the others felt the favouritism. 

I know a family with 5 boys and another with 7 girls, so you may not even get to change from girl colours to boy colours.

I believe that at this point, prayer will be your best option.  I'll keep you in my prayers.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kymdenise March 15, 2007, 02:02:23 AM
Thanks...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: freshisbest March 15, 2007, 02:05:08 AM
Pray pray pray. I believe The Lord gives you the heart to not only ASK but to RECEIVE what He has in store for you. We're human... we can't help our human desires sometimes! But complete trust in God is handing over our desires and accepting His plan. Not trying to micromanage.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Kymdenise March 15, 2007, 08:01:45 AM
Pray pray pray. I believe The Lord gives you the heart to not only ASK but to RECEIVE what He has in store for you. We're human... we can't help our human desires sometimes! But complete trust in God is handing over our desires and accepting His plan. Not trying to micromanage.
I will continue to pray! Thank you for the positive support..
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Daniel's Cousin March 15, 2007, 09:41:49 AM
I know families where some or all the children were conceived while mom was on birth control, and the children knew this and subconsciously knew that they weren't really wanted. 

 I know a lady who says that each of her five children is a testimony to the failure of a different kind of birth control.  :(

I will continue to pray!

 We'll pray with you.  :-*
: Re: All About Birth Control
: happyhomemaker March 15, 2007, 05:59:40 PM

Just re-read the info on Neeem.  This sounds too good to be true!  It is so hard to make a choice on bc, when there are so many bad options...or no options at all. We did nothing, to prevent after our first...and of course we have #2, but since his arrivel,(last Jan.) we have really wanted more time between to recover etc. (1 and 2 are 19 mnths. apppart)!

We are really looking into this idea of Neem. What I would be interested in knowing, is: Does it work alone well enough to use this only, as a form of bc? It looks like it is being used here (USA), but with another product.  I have been to the web pages, and the info is really interesting. I love the fact that this is a plant-based product, and not some chemical.

Has anyone else out there tried it,  etc.? We love our kids, but would like to have more when we are ready. I definantly agree about taking care of the one's you have! The idea of being preg. does not excite me yet, so I assume that the time is not right. Part of me wonders if I will ever get to the "want another" stage. :) I believe the Lord's timing is perfect, and that He is able to bless us with the little one's HE wants us to have. No matter what we are doing/not doing!

hhm :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: andeebeth March 20, 2007, 10:10:50 AM


I know a family with 5 boys and another with 7 girls, so you may not even get to change from girl colours to boy colours.

I believe that at this point, prayer will be your best option.  I'll keep you in my prayers.

Yep...I  know how that feels! LOL.  My sister once said to me..after I had two miscarriages in a row..."do you think maybe you just can't carry girls?" Possibly. I know God is in control though. I don't mind if we have 7 more boys ;) My sister in law is having all the girls anyway..so its not like I never get to see "pink". :P

If we ever DO have a girl..you may hear a scream coming from the upper midwest. ROFL!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: wlwest March 22, 2007, 08:55:56 AM
I haven't had time to read all the posts, but does anyone do the chart that goes to the love & fertility, from that family of americas?  I have the chart and dowloaded the book.  Right now I'm about 71/2 weeks post partum.  So, I'm not sure how to start. 

Just wondered if anyone else was doing this?

Wendy
: Re: All About Birth Control
: kentuckymommy March 22, 2007, 09:33:55 AM
Hi there,
I use this chart as of the past 90 days or so..... when I started my chart my little girl was 5 months old. I just picked a day since I was dry every day and had no cylcle. I just marked the date in the little square and have charted ever since. So far , no cycle and lots of little brown stickers!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ryedare April 01, 2007, 11:40:35 AM
Hello, I'm new. But this hot topic thread caught my eye and I read through some of it...sheez, it's long. But my question is to Rebekah and anyone else who was using the neem seed oil. What were your results? I mean, did it work for ya? I have done the Love and Fertility with good results between my third and fourth child. But between 4 and 5, I wasn't diligent to keep up with it and same between 5 and 6. So now I'm pregnant with number 6.  My hubby is ready to be done. So I am very interested in the neem seed oil. Thanks
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie April 01, 2007, 11:52:48 AM
htere is a thread on the effectiveness of neem...I don't remember what it was called....from whati can gather is that if you don't use it with nfp it doesn't seem to woprk for everyone ( therefore it seems to not work...cause if you have to not have sex for it to work than the neem isn't what is preventing the pregnancy...abstinence is) i'll try to find the thread for ya
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,6233.msg65981.html#msg65981
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic April 23, 2007, 07:07:43 AM
BUY YOUR LADY COMP FOR CHEAP!!! 

Lady Comp is having a sale right now.  Buy a brand new lady comp for the price of a refurbished one.  When you call and tell them you want a refurbished one, they will tell you that they are out of stock and offer you a new one for the same price.  Anyone who's been waiting... wait no more!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: crystaldew April 23, 2007, 10:18:48 AM
thank you for the heads up, but i am actually just really curious about what a "lady comp" is...hope this isn't a stupid question. i have seen it mentioned here a few times. thanks!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama April 23, 2007, 11:33:38 AM
BUY YOUR LADY COMP FOR CHEAP!!! 

Lady Comp is having a sale right now.  Buy a brand new lady comp for the price of a refurbished one.  When you call and tell them you want a refurbished one, they will tell you that they are out of stock and offer you a new one for the same price.  Anyone who's been waiting... wait no more!

I called them and they quoted me a price for a refurbished one of $298.  They offered me a discount on a new (since they are out of refurbished ones) for a price of $398.  Is this the deal you were talking about?  We actually don't need one right now - I don't have my period back.  So we'll probably just wait for a refurbished one to come in.  BTW, it was the 1-866-use-lady that I called.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: natural April 23, 2007, 11:45:26 AM
thank you for the heads up, but i am actually just really curious about what a "lady comp" is...hope this isn't a stupid question. i have seen it mentioned here a few times. thanks!

I was wondering the same thing and found this...

http://www.raxmedical.com/ 

: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. JDT April 23, 2007, 12:42:16 PM
AAAHHHHHHHH! I am kicking myself right now! We just got our Lady Comp that we ordered like a month ago that we paid $485 for.....oh well...at least we have one now... :P
: Re: All About Birth Control
: herbs girl April 23, 2007, 01:57:04 PM
I just recieved my lady comp and paid about full price too. ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. JDT April 23, 2007, 04:26:50 PM
Now I just have to figure out how to use it...... :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
: Re: All About Birth Control
: herbs girl April 23, 2007, 05:29:51 PM
I thought it was a bit complicated at first, but with my wonderful hubby at my side it worked out great!  I read the instructions, as  he guided me through each step and then when I have problems I often take it to him.  It really is not that bad, but if you have someone beside you walking you through each step you soon get used to it!!  I havan't had any green lights yet, because I haven't had a period for so long.  Hopefully it comes soon so we can start getting some good out of Ladycomp. :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: crystaldew April 25, 2007, 09:32:42 AM
thanks! wow...

thank you for the heads up, but i am actually just really curious about what a "lady comp" is...hope this isn't a stupid question. i have seen it mentioned here a few times. thanks!

I was wondering the same thing and found this...

http://www.raxmedical.com/ 


: Re: All About Birth Control
: snickerdoodle April 25, 2007, 09:53:12 AM
I have not read all 10 pages of this thread, but I did want to put in a little information about vasectomies that my dear husband and I found out the hard way...

When a man has been 'snipped' his body begins to 'absorb' the sperm that is still being made.  Over time his body begins giving a signal that he is creating excess and his testosterone levels drop.  As his testosterone levels drop, so does his libido...it can be dramatic.  It can be very damaging to the 'oneness' of the marriage, and can also leave a woman with quite the sense of rejection.

I understand that different situations require different solutions, and I respect your decisions and realize that what we've all decided to do in this area is personal (i.e. NONE OF MY BUSINESS!)  But I also wish with all sincerety that somebody would have given us this information 7 years ago... 

My sweet husband decided enough was enough last year, and had a reversal done in June, but...  everything is not quite back to pre-vas levels yet.  Though we are blessed to know that the reversal was sucessful!!!  And we are praying with hope that we will be welcoming a new blessing or two (or more) in the next few years! 

: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock June 13, 2007, 10:52:10 AM
Found this and thought some of you might be interested. I don't know what it's failure rate is, but it's much less expensive than a lady comp.

THE OVU-TEC™ FERTILITY DETECTOR (http://www.ovu-tec.com/)

WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac June 13, 2007, 11:12:59 AM
I have the ovu-tec and the fertility tracker.  I feel the fertility tracker is y better because you can save six days of slides, and also the microscope is more powerful.  Both will let you know what your estrogen levels are through saliva testing.

I could tell when the estrogen was high, but I would think if you wanted to use this to avoid pregnancy you might need to know about your body and how to abstain right before and after ovulation.  Those readings on saliva are harder-there may not be ferning.  The dots might could become larger and closer together, though. 

If I weren't so lazy, I could chart the fertility tracker along with the charting that I do.  I needed to avoid pregnancy for a bit due to health issues, and I would not have trusted the fertility tracker at that time because I had not been charting (billings style), so I don't think I would have caught the days before ovulation and after.

Just my experience,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: fisherprice July 16, 2007, 07:02:59 AM
I have recently ordered the Lady-comp for myself.  I have yet to get it but I am so excited.  It is basically a mini-computer that tells you everything you need to know about your cycle. 

Check it out at Ladycomp.com
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 16, 2007, 07:08:58 AM
I love my lady comp, welcome to the club fisherprice :-)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 26, 2007, 12:21:13 PM
Has anyone one done the temperature and NFP with success? I am about to start my 5 month old on solids and this is when I got pregnant the last time. 3 C-sections in 3yrs we are doing the NFP but since I am nursing I can't really tell when I am ovulating so we are abstaining for three weeks at a time.  I need something more substantial.  The Ladycomp is too expensive and my hubby is leery about the Neem oil any suggestions? can you do the fertility monitor if you haven't started your cycle?

I know this quote is a little dated, but I didn't have time to continue reading to see if you got your answer or not. Hopefully this info can help you or at least someone else.

While your are breastfeeding and haven't returned to your cycle, taking your temperature isn't very helpful since it only tells you when ovulation has occurred. But you can follow your cervical fluid. The best way to do this is to observe your cervical fluid everyday for two weeks (while abstaining is best.)  If it stays the same w/o becoming more of a fertile quality, then this is your Basic Infertile Pattern (BIP). This means that your BIP can be somewhat wet. Anytime your CF does become more fertile, abstain until it "dries up" (goes back to whatever your infertile fluid resembles), waiting until the 4th dry day for intercourse. You should always use the "use-a-day, skip-a-day" rule whenever you are approaching ovulation or ovulation hasn't been confirmed by a thermal shift. (When you are on your cycle, taking your temp - along side observing your CF - is the only way to be truly sure that you have ovulated and really give you the assurity [sp ???] of knowing that you will not [notwithstanding God's divine will, of course ;D] get pregnant.)

The "use-a-day, skip-a-day" rule is simply this: If you are infertile/dry all day today, you can use this evening for intercourse. Tomorrow you will want to skip b/c any semen that may continue to flow out can mask fertile quality cervical fluid. The next day, if you are dry all day, you can, again, use that evening for intercourse. Then, again, skip the next day. As soon as you begin to see your cervical fluid becoming more fertile, you will want to abstain or use a barrier method, whichever you chose, and of course, wait until your 4th dry day. As you become comfortable with knowing your body, you may also become more "daring" ;) and not be so strict. For instance, you've been dry for weeks and you don't want to wait for the evening. I'm sure you'd be fine.

From my personal experience, the first 3-4 months after my babies were born were the most difficult. My cervical fluid always seemed to be wet. Don't know if it was the hormones leveling out or what. After that, I was more confident as long as I made a point to observe my fluid and cervix everyday. Observing my cervix has been a huge benefit to me; I use it every cycle. And let me tell you, after having babies and how they come about, checking your cervix will be not-that-big-a-deal. The first time I ovulated after both my babies were born (13 mths w/ 1st & 11 mths w/ 2nd) it was very obvious. So if you are observing, it will be obvious to you too.

Hope this helps and hasn't been redundant (didn't read the last 3 pages of the thread. ::))
: Re: All About Birth Control
: skelliott2 July 26, 2007, 12:37:25 PM



IAnytime your CF does become more fertile, abstain until it "dries up" (goes back to whatever your infertile fluid resembles), waiting until the 4th dry day for intercourse. You should always use the "use-a-day, skip-a-day" rule whenever you are approaching ovulation or ovulation hasn't been confirmed by a thermal shift. (When you are on your cycle, taking your temp - along side observing your CF - is the only way to be truly sure that you have ovulated and really give you the assurity [sp ???] of knowing that you will not [notwithstanding God's divine will, of course ;D] get pregnant.)

 As soon as you begin to see your cervical fluid becoming more fertile, you will want to abstain or use a barrier method, whichever you chose, and of course, wait until your 4th dry day.

Do you really have to wait until your 4th dry day???!!!!!   :o :o :o
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac July 26, 2007, 12:54:30 PM
You really do, and I'm right there with you >:( :o :o ::)

Anybody got any tips on keeping on keeping on for those, oh, 4-6 days there when, ya know, that's really the most fun time?  I mean, I know what they say in the books about other types of love, but still......

Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 26, 2007, 12:57:45 PM
Do you really have to wait until your 4th dry day???!!!!!   :o :o :o


Yes, if you're following the "rules" of NFP or FAM (Fertility Awareness Method, which is what Toni Weschler teaches in Taking Charge of Your Fertility.) HOWEVER, what I always tell people in my classes is that this is what you'll do when you're learning, then as you become familiar with your body, you can chose to be as "daring" as you want. If you're  charting your fluid and taking your temp (which, to me, is the only way to go) you can be a lot less conservative. In my case, if I have dried up, usually only a day before my temp rise, and I have two temps above my coverline, I consider myself infertile. I also check my cervix, so if my cervix has returned to the infertile position, I'm dry for two days and I have, at the very least, one temp above my coverline, I feel pretty confident that I won't get pregnant. So far, so good.  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 26, 2007, 01:09:47 PM
Wow this is a huge thread.. I've been reading it over and trying to speed read.. just got to page nine to learn the function of the "Pill".. When I read my little insert in my mini pill package, it said something about thickening the mucus so sperm can't make it to the egg, or even past the cervix.. So is the mini pill abortive? Because my husband wants a boy SO badly.. I have prayed and prayed and prayed, and three girls later, I'm afraid to get pg again. I told him I wanted to wait until the baby is in school, becuase I'm just so affraid of having another girl, and having him be dissapointed. He loves his girls, but he is not a believer, so its as if we are just going to have babies until he gets his boy (and I would Love a boy.. don't get me wrong) but would submitting to him only to have another girl be wrong? I mean.. I just don't know what to do.

I think prayer is huge and lately I've been reminded that trust in the Lord is so much more than trying to do it on my own. Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain that build it.

At the same time, there are ways to improve your chances for one or the other. I hope this isn't contradicting myself to give you this info, but I do believe the end result is still in the Lord's hands.

The short of it: First is timing. The closer intercourse is to ovulation, the higher chances of being a boy. The more time in between, say, 2-5 days before ovulation, the higher chances of being a girl. (Actually, since you're wanting a boy, I would try on your peak day of fertility (cervical fluid) or the day after. So the day after your most fertile and before your temperature rises.) The second is PH balance. The more acidic your body is, the more "boy" sperm you will kill off. The more alkaline your body is, the better chance you give them to survive.

More than anything, I pray that your husband turns to receive the goodness of our Lord! Blessings to you and your family!!!!!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie July 27, 2007, 04:05:43 PM
Does you ph tell you anything about what you are already carring...if you are already pregnant?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: just jane July 28, 2007, 01:45:07 PM
I've been reading thru' the threads and had a ? on the diaphragm.   We have used this and spermicide for 9 years and have had no surprises so far.  Also there have been no side effect except maybe a little itching.   
My question is this IS THERE ANY ALTERNATIVE TO SPERMICIDE IN THE DIAPHRAGM?     I would like to get away from the spermicide.  What could I put in there?   
: Re: All About Birth Control
: smileyface July 28, 2007, 06:14:24 PM
I've been reading thru' the threads and had a ? on the diaphragm.   We have used this and spermicide for 9 years and have had no surprises so far.  Also there have been no side effect except maybe a little itching.  
My question is this IS THERE ANY ALTERNATIVE TO SPERMICIDE IN THE DIAPHRAGM?     I would like to get away from the spermicide.  What could I put in there?  
I am also wondering about this. We use the diaphram, but the spermicide irritates me. So we don't use anything with it. I know it's not very reliable like that, but it's the only thing that doesn't bother me. I wonder if there is something natural to use in place of the spermicide.  ???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 28, 2007, 08:08:46 PM
Does you ph tell you anything about what you are already carring...if you are already pregnant?


I honestly don't know :-\. A friend of mine told me about the "drain-o" test :P. I never tried it 'cause I didn't want to know what I was having until they were born. But she says that every time she or a friend has tried it, it's been accurate, while another friend of mine (who has never had or baby ::), but is very smart) says that it has nothing to do with the hormones in your body; what you ate for lunch can determine what color it turns. The test is, simply pee in a cup of drain-o. If it turns blue-green, it's a boy. If it turns pink-brown, it's a girl.  :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: smileyface July 29, 2007, 07:05:22 PM
I've been reading thru' the threads and had a ? on the diaphragm.   We have used this and spermicide for 9 years and have had no surprises so far.  Also there have been no side effect except maybe a little itching.  
My question is this IS THERE ANY ALTERNATIVE TO SPERMICIDE IN THE DIAPHRAGM?     I would like to get away from the spermicide.  What could I put in there?  
I am also wondering about this. We use the diaphram, but the spermicide irritates me. So we don't use anything with it. I know it's not very reliable like that, but it's the only thing that doesn't bother me. I wonder if there is something natural to use in place of the spermicide.  ???
bump bump any suggestions??   I thought about plain yogurt??     The "fishies" would have to swim up thru' it--that might slow them down??  Did you ever get pregnant using only the diaphram??   I'm thinking about using just that because everything else bothers me too!
We stopped using the spermicide before I got pregnant last time. But I'm pretty sure that we concieved when we didn't use the diaphragm. And I'm not sure if I've started ovulating yet, so I'm not real sure how well it works.  :-\ I figure it's better than nothing, and it's not as if it would be the end of the world if we got pregnant again.  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mommyof4 July 29, 2007, 08:05:18 PM
I love my lady comp!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mommyof4 July 29, 2007, 08:39:48 PM
I looked into saliva ferning years ago, the technology has come leaps and bounds, might try it later. :)
Lindsey
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 30, 2007, 01:43:15 AM
Lindsey, judging by the picture, you took a break from the ladycomp?   ;)  Either that or I need to be watching my ladycomp really carefully!  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mommyof4 July 30, 2007, 05:13:03 AM
Ha,ha :D, no that isn't me, I just love that picture!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Eviesmom July 30, 2007, 08:05:23 AM
I would like to know too. Help!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: fisherprice July 30, 2007, 08:26:54 AM
Since you a veteran lady-comp user, i have a question for you.  I got mine in the mail but i have a couple questions.  First, I still havent had a period yet and my daughter is 9 mos.  I got the lady-comp to see if it would catch my ovulation but when reading the manual (yes manual) it says that it needs some info first.  What do you think?  Let me know.  Do you think ill mess up the data-base if i start using it?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 30, 2007, 11:53:16 AM
I would just start using it now and let it record things the way they are.  It can't hurt.  But I didn't input any prior information and was fine.  BUT, I wasn't nursing either, so it really is up to you.  I wouldn't expect it to provide reliable BC, though, until you had at least one full cycle including menstruation while using it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mommyof4 July 30, 2007, 06:02:08 PM
Looks like we need to create a Lady-Comp thread:)
Lady comp only works after two periods are recorded. I would start recording the first day of your first period and make sure you use the alarm, always set for the same time of day. Mine is set for 2 am so I know that I could have been asleep for a few hours at least so as to get a correct temp reading. As soon as you begin to move your temp with go down, you can't roll out of bed/sit up or move around very much before you take your temp, or it won't be very accurate.
 The longer you use it, the better it gets to know you, as you go on, you will get more and more green (infertile) days to play around with. I really like mine, except when I sleep through the alarm..... :o
HTH
Lindsey
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy July 31, 2007, 02:05:41 AM
Holy cow!  2am!!!  I have mine set for six thirty!  We already do have a lady comp thread.  Here it is:

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,5065.0.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Daniel's Cousin August 02, 2007, 03:16:39 AM
new topic on women only  called "using a diaphram w/out spermicide"
not sure how to make a link!!!! computer illiterate!!

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,10871.0.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MommabyHisgrace September 12, 2007, 08:04:54 AM
I read about using Neem oil either on this thread or another one and I was wondering if anyone else has used it and had success with it.  My dh and I have had 5 of our 6 children in the last 6 years and although we trust the Lord we are both feeling like we need a break.  Mostly just time to train the children we have and get a better handle on them.  Being pregnant or nursing for the last 6 years has made it a little more difficult for me to be on top of them like I should.  Anyway....I'm looking for something natural that doesn't require me to keep track of fluid or temperatures and such.  Personally, I am the most clueless woman when it comes to my body and I've tried some of those methods and still got pregnant.  I'm sure it is due to neglect on my part to properly gage everything just right, so without doing anything permanent I wanted to check out this Neem oil.  Any responses would be greatly appreciated.  I just had our 6th child 7 weeks ago and need to figure out something quick.  My baby is sleeping through the night and so bleeding has started up again so I'm sure (I think ???) that I'm ovulating due to her not nursing in the night. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MommabyHisgrace September 13, 2007, 03:10:23 AM
bump!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: smithzonian September 13, 2007, 04:26:02 AM
Nope, I've never heard of using "neem" for birth control.

The only form of effective baby spacing I've heard that isn't considered "interfering" with nature is demand breastfeeding around the clock. 

It seems you may know that as a baby spaces their feedings out, mom can become fertile again--being that you mentioned your wee one is now sleeping through the night.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if you were able to get him/her nursing through the night again-if that would reinitiate holding back ovulation.  Or does that only happen if you start out feeing the baby on demand.  Wonder if anyone reading this knows.

Ah well-God truly is the giver and taker of life--opener and closer of the womb isn't He.  We truly all are mommies by His grace aren't we?
I'll be praying that God will give you His wisdom abundantly. 
Many hugs new Momma to another blessing!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac September 13, 2007, 04:35:36 AM
MommybyHisgrace,

What about the Ladycomp?  A bit pricey, but it does the same thing as NFP and such without the hassle.

I'm right there with you on charting.  It is a lot of work to me, and so I've been nervous and uptight at times between pregnancies.  I did not have mine as closely as yours, but when I chose to nurse a whole lot to delay ovulation (over 3-4 children) I became exhausted.  It worked for me as far as spacing, but from what I understand it does not work for some women.

I also wonder about the tendency to get pregnant when nursing that happens to us when we rely solely on nursing for child spacing.  I wonder, over long term, if it is good for health. Although when I did it I was not eating enough high fat/protein so I got into trouble.

HTH,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MommabyHisgrace September 13, 2007, 08:09:38 AM
This is the first baby that I have been doing more of demand feeding than any of my others and she's sleeping through the night!  I can't imagine waking her up, so maybe I'll look into the Ladycomp.  I really know nothing about it, so after the kids are down for naps I'll check out that thread.  I am so blessed to have the children that I have and I hope my questions don't suggest anything else.  She's a thumbsucker, too, and I'm sure that has something to do with her sleeping so well and the return of my bleeding.  I am so glad that He truly is the one in control!  Thanks for the responses!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: beppyjo November 26, 2007, 06:57:41 AM
Well, I have read this whole thread and have a few questions....... What I have gathered is that Neem by itself is not necessarily effective but works best with natural family planning methods. Lady comp is expensive but everyone is happy with it. So, here's where I'm at... My baby is now 6 mo old and so I need to start thinking about what I/we are going to do. Pregnancies are VERY hard on me and hubby doesn't want me to go through another one for fear he won't have a wife afterwards. Neither of us are comfortable with any of the permanent options so I have been looking into what else we can do. I have done FAM but it is rather hard on us as my cycles are so inconsistent (28-50 days) and I never really have much for "dry" days. dd #1 was conceived 10 days after intercourse :o (hope that's not TMI) so we definately fall into the "fertile Mertyle" category. 
  So, I guess what I am asking is has anyone tried the papaya mentioned earlier on this thread? I tried the link but for some reason couldn't find the info.......  Has neem alone worked for anyone?  Any recommendations? 
 I have heard that temp alone isn't as effective and was wondering if any of you Ladycomp gals have found that? My inconsistency in cycle length make me feel helpless when it comes to this. FAM would be no problem if there was some consistency.............. I just can't bear the thought of pregnancy again. We are in a situation in which we have no help if I were to get pregnant (as far as house stuff, caring for the kids we currently have, meals, book keeping for our business, etc..........) and I am still struggling with babyblues/ppd as it is. I almost get panicky thinking of pregnancy again.

O.K. so I have rambled on long enough. Any thoughts, advice, stories of success/failure with neem or papaya would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac November 26, 2007, 07:36:44 AM
I just would like to say, beppyjo, that I understand your dilemma.  I do not know about the neem or papaya, although I believe I did check into wild yam or something else at an herbal shop once, and there was a lot of information there.  If you have an herbal shop, or a reputable herbal section with helpers at a health food store, you may be able to find some information along with the products for sale.     

: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic November 26, 2007, 07:57:22 AM
I feel the SAME way Beppy.  We don't want to do anything permanent, but pregnancy and labor are hard on me, honey feels like our quiver is full after this third baby comes (in January), my cycles are not like clockwork, and we are SUPER fertile.  And we don't feel called to abstinence...  :D

My husband was taking (according to OrganixSouth) 15 times the amt. of neem oil, and internally, and we still got pregnant.  We'd just bought a ladycomp, but we were still in the learning phase, so essentially we were not using anything else.  And now after this baby we're just baffled.

I'm about to check out "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Weschler.  I'm really hoping that we get to know my body a little better and that that'll help.  There's also an online BBT calculator for free that could help you.  We also plan to use a barrier method (but no spermicide; I have issues with that) for a while until the ladycomp gets to know my cycle.  This is (in our opinion) the hardest "issue" in our marriage because we just scratch our heads.  At least we're scratching our heads together.   :D 

So you aren't alone.  Don't get discouraged.   :-*  This is a difficult issue.  Pray, pray, and pray for peace, regardless of what happens.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama November 26, 2007, 08:29:16 AM
I, too, can understand where you're coming from, Beppy.  We currently have four children and are hoping to take a break for a year before conceiving again, unless the Lord has other plans.  ;)  I'd like to say that I love my Ladycomp.  I feel it is safe as far as pregnancy since it gives us about 2 weeks of fertile days per month where we have to use something else.  But I also have a very dependable cycle, exactly 27-28 days every month.  I think taking Vitex/chasteberry has helped regulate my cycles since my baby was born.  But it can also make you more fertile. 

Dh is also taking neem oil, but I have kind of given up on that.  Too many WTM neem babies lately!  :D :D  I hope you can find something that suits both you and your hubby. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac November 26, 2007, 09:05:22 AM
******************************************************************************************************************Shaby Chic - that part about not feeling called to abstinence, oh my goodness I so totally relate.  Glad somebody else feels the same way.  We did try condom--wouldn't suggest that over NFP or Ladycomp if you really need to be for sure about prevention.  I ended up in a miscarriage about 9 mos postpartum. :'(  Dh nixed that one--and our NFP doctor backed it up with that NFP is as reliable/more reliable than the pill and company, better than other options.

***sigh***  maybe we oughta start a prayer support group for abstinenance.   >:( ::) ;D.  I do try to console myself with the thought that in the good ole days they likely just had separate bedrooms.

I can only joke because I'm preggars right now.  NOT looking forward to long about August of next year.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mommyof4 November 28, 2007, 08:51:55 AM
I know I'm coming in on the middle of this conversation, just wanted to throw out our experience.
Began taking LOTS of wild yam three months before wedding..... pregnant 1.5 months after wedding:)
7 months pp nursing very regularly, got preggo again:) Me happy, DH not so.
7 months pp, nursing again, had purchased a ladycomp but since I hadn;t had a period yet...... preggo:) Me happy again, not so excited to tell hubby abut #3.
DH deployed for a year, don't need to worry about this part of our marriage:/ He came home and I had been using ladycomp w/ regular cycle, condoms on red or yellow lights... until august :o ovulated four days early and lady comp gave us yellow lights. preggo with #4.
DH is getting fixed before baby is born in May. I would love to let God have control of our fertility but DH doesn't.
I'm selling my lady comp not because it doesn't work but because we won't be needing it any more.
Lindsey
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen November 28, 2007, 09:05:43 AM
I've been reading thru' the threads and had a ? on the diaphragm.   We have used this and spermicide for 9 years and have had no surprises so far.  Also there have been no side effect except maybe a little itching.  
My question is this IS THERE ANY ALTERNATIVE TO SPERMICIDE IN THE DIAPHRAGM?     I would like to get away from the spermicide.  What could I put in there?  
I am also wondering about this. We use the diaphram, but the spermicide irritates me. So we don't use anything with it. I know it's not very reliable like that, but it's the only thing that doesn't bother me. I wonder if there is something natural to use in place of the spermicide.  ???
bump bump any suggestions??   I thought about plain yogurt??     The "fishies" would have to swim up thru' it--that might slow them down??  Did you ever get pregnant using only the diaphram??   I'm thinking about using just that because everything else bothers me too!

I was reading this and wondered if apple cider vinegar would work.   ???  I had read something years ago that it inhibits sperm - something about unfriendly Ph - so I ended up using it with my cervical cap for years.  Never had a pregnancy while using it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic November 28, 2007, 09:40:51 AM
Can I just say, Lindsey, that the way you worded your marriage and pregnancies in a nutshell was hysterical?   :D  It was very Jane Austen with the asides.

And there's no way you're going to get any support for long term abstinence with welltellers, cecac, so start that thread at your own risk   :D  I understand that some may agree on periodic abstinence, fasting, cleansing, etc. but I think Michael Pearl himself would drive to our homes and rebuke us in person if we said we felt called to a monastic lifestyle in marriage.

And I am very curious about the ACV, blessed 213.  How did it affect you physically?  Were you more/less prone to infection or inflammation when you were using the ACV?  The pH thing sounds believable to me... but of course, that's a BIG risk if I'm wrong.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: LKS November 28, 2007, 09:51:13 AM
******************************************************************************************************************

***sigh***  maybe we oughta start a prayer support group for abstinenance.   >:( ::) ;D.  I do try to console myself with the thought that in the good ole days they likely just had separate bedrooms.


ABSTINENCE?!? Are you nuts?!! Obviously you have never met my husband  ;D
LKS
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic November 28, 2007, 09:57:09 AM
Oh good... you WERE being sarcastic...  :D  Me too.  Although separate bedrooms wouldn't be bad when honey is snoring.   ;D  Or (in his defense) at the end of pregnancy when I have to visit the ladies room 7 times a night.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen November 28, 2007, 11:06:29 AM

And I am very curious about the ACV, blessed 213.  How did it affect you physically?  Were you more/less prone to infection or inflammation when you were using the ACV?  The pH thing sounds believable to me... but of course, that's a BIG risk if I'm wrong.

I would say that I was less prone to infection, but that would be a subjective guess.  I'm not prone to any problems, normally.
I think it was my midwife who suggested that I use it - diluted, of course - for douching after sex to help reduce possibility of pregnancy.  Figured that, since I was washing the cervical cap before inserting and I'm sensitive to spermicides, I would just wet the cap with acv.   Can't make any promises or assume any of your risk!   I am happy being a 'Sarah' past the age of childbearing. 

I will check around and see if I can find more information about ACV's effect on sperm.  Sure is good all-around medicine, I think!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac November 28, 2007, 11:52:50 AM
Can I just say, Lindsey, that the way you worded your marriage and pregnancies in a nutshell was hysterical?   :D  It was very Jane Austen with the asides.

And there's no way you're going to get any support for long term abstinence with welltellers, cecac, so start that thread at your own risk   :D  I understand that some may agree on periodic abstinence, fasting, cleansing, etc. but I think Michael Pearl himself would drive to our homes and rebuke us in person if we said we felt called to a monastic lifestyle in marriage.

And I am very curious about the ACV, blessed 213.  How did it affect you physically?  Were you more/less prone to infection or inflammation when you were using the ACV?  The pH thing sounds believable to me... but of course, that's a BIG risk if I'm wrong.

LOL, I am NOT talking about doing old fashioned abstinence. Goodness gracious I'd have to move to a different state or something to do that. ;D  You want to invite a grumpy 41 yo lady with a baby over to live with you next year?

It's bad enough just 7-10 days every month.

I had a midwife say use lemon juice after the fun, she didn't mention  ACV.

HTH,
Cara

: Re: All About Birth Control
: kper November 28, 2007, 12:46:02 PM
Okay... I have just started reading this thread and have a question... has anyone used the Today sponge and does it work for you? We're in the same boat as my health goes downhill when pregnant and we already have 4. Not that I wouldn't love more... hubby is scared. So, we're searching for something that works. Thanks for your ideas!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: beppyjo November 28, 2007, 02:15:06 PM
(Quote)
I would say that I was less prone to infection, but that would be a subjective guess.  I'm not prone to any problems, normally.
I think it was my midwife who suggested that I use it - diluted, of course - for douching after sex to help reduce possibility of pregnancy.  Figured that, since I was washing the cervical cap before inserting and I'm sensitive to spermicides, I would just wet the cap with acv. !
[/quote]

 How diluted did you make it? Seems like it would sting but I suppose that depends on the dilution? ??? Thanks!

B
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen November 28, 2007, 06:46:29 PM
B -

Been a long time ago,   8)   I think I just did a 50% dilution.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 November 29, 2007, 12:40:08 PM
I had been using ladycomp w/ regular cycle, condoms on red or yellow lights... until august :o ovulated four days early and lady comp gave us yellow lights. preggo with #4.
DH is getting fixed before baby is born in May. I would love to let God have control of our fertility but DH doesn't.

Just wanted to use this quote to encourage all the ladies with fertility/birth control issues to consider at least incorporating NFP into their BC routine (for lack of a better term). I understand some feel that NFP is just too much charting, but understanding what your body is doing is well worth the hassle. Charting doesn't have to consume the entire month. I'm so lazy any more that I just chart from when my period ends to when ovulation is confirmed by my temps. If you don't want to abstain during fertility, use a barrier method (just know that you can still possibly get pregnant). If you are observing your cervical fluid along side of the lady comp, you will know that you are fertile, about to ovulate and should abstain to avoid a pregnancy, even when the lady comp gives a yellow light. The lady comp sounds like a fun gadget and, even if I could afford one, I would never drop observing my cervical fluid and position (it takes your temp, right?) and rely completely on the machine. We know our bodies better than a machine ;). I hope that any of you who are frustrated with BC will find this helpful/hopeful ;) :-*.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: beppyjo November 29, 2007, 07:27:35 PM
****************************************************************

O.k. so I have a rather embarassing question. As I read through this thread I read 2 different terms - diaphragm and cervical cap. Are they the same thing? Where does one get these things? Can you just go to the pharmacy? Are they disposable or reusable? Do you know if you can get any that are latex free?  I am totally ignorant when it comes to this type of thing.  :-[ Baby is 6 mo and starting on solids so I need to get educated quick! Thanks ladies.

B
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen November 30, 2007, 04:16:55 AM
****************************************************************

O.k. so I have a rather embarassing question. As I read through this thread I read 2 different terms - diaphragm and cervical cap. Are they the same thing? Where does one get these things? Can you just go to the pharmacy? Are they disposable or reusable? Do you know if you can get any that are latex free?  I am totally ignorant when it comes to this type of thing.  :-[ Baby is 6 mo and starting on solids so I need to get educated quick! Thanks ladies.

B

B
They are different.  The principle is the same, in that they are both barrier methods of birth control. 
I think you would need to see a health care provider for either one.  I know that I got my cervical cap through a midwife, as it required fitting and instructions.  I've heard that the same is true with diaphragms. 
I'd start making some calls, if I were you, to see what is available from who.  For me, price is a question I always have to ask.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: beppyjo November 30, 2007, 06:54:28 AM
Thanks Blessed, Now I have a direction to head. I appreciate your quick response!

B
: Re: All About Birth Control
: just jane November 30, 2007, 08:06:51 AM
FYI cervical caps are alot more expensive than a diaphragm.    Diaphragms need to be fitted by a midwife or a dr. and they will teach you how to insert them (very easy--a couple tries and you got it) and how to use them.  A diaphragm will last up to 7 years and is very reliable if you use it w/ sp and most importantly that you always place it in before...........the fun.        Easy. Inexpensive. Effective.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie November 30, 2007, 08:32:02 AM
what is sp?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama November 30, 2007, 08:37:00 AM
what is sp?


spermicide???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: just jane November 30, 2007, 10:01:59 AM
you are correct it is spermicide and you can buy it at Wal Mart or a pharmacy it is called Gynoll II  and is in a tube which is cheaper than the prefilled applicators.  One tube will last ..........well I guess only you will know how often you'll need  it!
LOL!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic November 30, 2007, 02:42:18 PM
About the apple cider vinegar, I've read that it's okay to clean your rubber or silicone "keeper" cups (for when you have a monthly cycle) with diluted ACV so that makes sense for cleaning. 

But I've also read that douching is bad and not to mess with the pH inside, that your body naturally cleanses itself, etc.  So if I'm using it for birth control I'm wondering if it's the same concept as douching and not good?   ???  Am I totally off base here? 

I only ask (again, sorry) because I am quite prone to infections and take Tummy Tune Up, yoghurt and cranberry regularly.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen November 30, 2007, 04:28:27 PM
About the apple cider vinegar, I've read that it's okay to clean your rubber or silicone "keeper" cups (for when you have a monthly cycle) with diluted ACV so that makes sense for cleaning. 

But I've also read that douching is bad and not to mess with the pH inside, that your body naturally cleanses itself, etc.  So if I'm using it for birth control I'm wondering if it's the same concept as douching and not good?   ???  Am I totally off base here? 

Sorry - I haven't been able to find anything about the acv, either.  I know that regular douching isn't a good idea, and the recommendation was made as a suggestion for a natural birth control.  Something about the pH being unfriendly.  Same claim is made for diluted Dr. B's castile soap.
Thing is, we were never truly serious about any birth control method. Breastfeeding and fertility awareness worked great for us; we had a pregnancy every three years whether we wanted one or not.  Dh still wants more.  CHILDREN, that is!    hee hee    ::)   :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac November 30, 2007, 04:28:48 PM
About the apple cider vinegar, I've read that it's okay to clean your rubber or silicone "keeper" cups (for when you have a monthly cycle) with diluted ACV so that makes sense for cleaning. 

But I've also read that douching is bad and not to mess with the pH inside, that your body naturally cleanses itself, etc.  So if I'm using it for birth control I'm wondering if it's the same concept as douching and not good?   ???  Am I totally off base here? 

I only ask (again, sorry) because I am quite prone to infections and take Tummy Tune Up, yoghurt and cranberry regularly.

Shabby Chic,

I was having the same thought about douching that much.  IMO, it wouldn't be good to do it that frequently.  (I mean, LOL, I'm assuming you are havin' your fun more often than once a month).  I personally only allow myself one douche a month right when the monthly stops, to finish out.  I have not had any problems that way, but I agree you should be concerned with, say, even once a week or so. ;)  

And I read your post in the preggars thread--here is praying that you all get that one figured out.

Nope, not off base, IMO,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: momofsixgirls January 02, 2008, 08:35:56 AM
I'm really new to this thread but am wondering if there's been anymore info recently about the Neem Oil idea--
I have 6 girls and love them dearly but have developed heart problems with the last 3 pregnancies and my husband and I are ready to be "done" having children but not at all interested in permanant bc-- any info on the neem oil would be helpful--- thanks
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie January 03, 2008, 06:17:11 AM
from what I can gather it only "works" if you do it w/ nfp which means it doesn't work :) I looked into wild yam cream on the web..you have to take just the right amount can't miss a day, etc etc cause wild yam can do lots of different things one amount will make you more fertile the other not, etc etc, but you can't take any antibiotics reg or natural while using it...garlic and I are good friends :) and w/ 3 kids 3 and under gse, propolis, elderberry, echinicea, etc are used frequently :) anyways you may want to look into that...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: KJB1611 January 12, 2008, 01:04:04 PM
Our family doesn't believe in birth control or contraception, I don't even like "natural methods" but it would be the only one I would ever be able to recommend to someone else.  :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain January 14, 2008, 06:11:19 PM
Yikes! Lotsa pages!  Okay, I admit, I'm being lazy right now and don't have the time to read every one of the posts, so I'm just going to ask my question...(you can excommunicate me later!)   :-[ (Me, hoping you won't excommunicate me anytime soon...I like it here.)

We have been using the Ovulation Method (from the Love and Fertility book mentioned earlier) since my husband arrived home from Iraq  6 months ago and so far I'M NOT PREGNANT!  ;D (Me, very happy that I'm not pregnant.)

My question is to anyone who has used this method faithfully: I am typically very irregular, but there are times I wonder if I have ovulated twice in a cycle, or not at all.  Have you experienced anything similar? Over all, we really like this method (both of our kids were conceived with the use of condoms!), but I am concerned about frustrating my very patient husband when two weeks go by and I can't tell for certain where I am in my cycle.

For example, this month, I was fairly sure when I was fertile, only to have the symptoms taper off and then return later that week.  I was expecting to ovulate today or tomorrow based on my discharge, but then I started my period this morning!! What gives?!  ??? (Me, wondering if I've officially lost my marbles...)

My cycles seem to go normal-erratic-normal-erratic... Last month was ideal.  The symptoms were unmistakable and right on schedule. *sigh*

Thank you for listening!
kate
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 January 14, 2008, 06:31:45 PM
Kate~
What signs do you observe and chart using the Ovulation Method? Are you checking your cervical fluid, taking your temperature and checking your cervix? One, two or all three of them?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain January 14, 2008, 07:12:21 PM
So far, I have just been observing my mucus. I'm honestly not sure what ya'll are refering to about "checking your cervix".  Sounds um...odd?

What I have been observing though is an inconsistant pattern of discharge. Like I said, some months will be text-book-regular, so I know how it is "supposed" to look. But then some months (like this one) I had an infertle period for about a week after my period, started the discharge (thick, cloudy, sticky) and then it sort of came and went without changing a few times. Then it appeared very thick like rubber cement, and then went away again.  Then it finally reappeared and began the "normal" process of thinning until I was expecting to ovulate in a day or two...and then my period started!! There was no post-peak-day infertle time that I could tell.  Yesterday I had thin, clear (but not drippy) mucus, and today...menstruation. (Insert sounds of me banging my head against the nearest wall...  ::))

We really do like using a natural method, but I fear that it is only working because my husband is willing to abstain at any sign of fertility...often lasting longer than he or I would like! Maybe we should combine the use of this method with something else??

Thanks for helping!
kate
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MommyGus January 14, 2008, 07:20:06 PM
My only other question would be are you nursing?  I use the same method, but don't ever feel sure about my fertility, but I am nursing, so I think that is why.  Or maybe something is causing a different discharge on the months when you aren't "text book regular".  Just a warning we have conceived more than once using NFP, because of things like this.  My husbands patience only lasts so long ;).  
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain January 14, 2008, 07:28:07 PM
No, I am not currently nursing. I gave birth to our son (second child) while my husband was deployed (hence wanting to wait for a bit!). He will be 2 in July and I stopped nursing him at about 10 months (his decision, not mine!  :'().

We are okay with the idea of conceiving again, as long as we know that it is God's intervention and not our irresponsibility. On those days when my very patient husband just can't resist my charms  ::), we use a condom (or two!), but as the other two were conceived that way, it's really all up to God.

 :)  Going to bed now... First period day is always lousy...  :P
Thanks!
kate
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 January 16, 2008, 12:33:23 PM
So far, I have just been observing my mucus. I'm honestly not sure what ya'll are refering to about "checking your cervix".  Sounds um...odd?

What I have been observing though is an inconsistant pattern of discharge. Like I said, some months will be text-book-regular, so I know how it is "supposed" to look. But then some months (like this one) I had an infertle period for about a week after my period, started the discharge (thick, cloudy, sticky) and then it sort of came and went without changing a few times. Then it appeared very thick like rubber cement, and then went away again.  Then it finally reappeared and began the "normal" process of thinning until I was expecting to ovulate in a day or two...and then my period started!! There was no post-peak-day infertle time that I could tell.  Yesterday I had thin, clear (but not drippy) mucus, and today...menstruation. (Insert sounds of me banging my head against the nearest wall...  ::))

We really do like using a natural method, but I fear that it is only working because my husband is willing to abstain at any sign of fertility...often lasting longer than he or I would like! Maybe we should combine the use of this method with something else??

Thanks for helping!
kate


I know what you're talking about. I just started my period on Monday as well. The 4 or 5 days before that I was feeling wet like I was approaching ovulation again. However, since I take my temperature to confirm ovulation, I knew that I had ovulated and there was no chance of fertility and that my period was going to start. I think that, perhaps, the drop in progesterone just before my period starts may have to do with it. Not a factual statement, just an observation in my own body.

Checking your cervix is when you actually insert your first 2 fingers (or just the middle one) into your vagin* and feel how Soft (like the softness of your lips), High, Open and Wet your cervix is. Your cervix will SHOW you when you are when approaching ovulation or, in other words, when you are fertile. Begin checking after your period ends. You should notice that it's firm or rigid (like the tip of your nose), low in the vagin*l canal (has a long neck ;)), fairly closed (post v-birth it will always be slightly open like a slit) and should only have infertile quality fluid on it. As you approach ovulation it will take on the SHOW characteristics. After you ovulate, your cervix will return to the infertile position and you can stop checking it. I really like to use this along with checking my fluid.

My recommendation is to, at the least, observe/chart both your cervical fluid and temperature. I wouldn't do cervical w/o taking my temp. If you don't confirm ovulation with a thermal shift (your waking temp will be higher after you ovulate because progesterone is a heat producing hormone and it's only present in your body after you ovulate), you're always playing the "I might be fertile" game. In my experience, when I'm nursing and haven't returned to my cycle, so there's no temp to be taken, that game is NOT conducive to freely giving myself to my husband with no fear of pregnancy in my mind. Depending on your cycle, you could have a 2 week stretch of loving your husband at anytime, with no need for "protection," This is the only BC my husband and I currently use. No unplanned prego either. Sometimes it gets frustrating for my husband, but I find that if I give myself to him whenever possible during my post ovulation time, he can make it a lot easier thru my period and fertile times.

So, go get yourself a Basal Body thermometer (any drug store should have one) and start charting your temp. Post any questions or get the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (you may find it at your library). Soon, you'll be more confident and your husband will be more loved ;) ;D ;) ;D! Hope that helps!!!!! (And isn't too much info ;)!)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain January 16, 2008, 02:01:34 PM
Thank you so much for the assistance! I will need to go over this a few more times to be sure I understand it.

More to come...

 :)

kate
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 11, 2008, 08:11:57 AM
I have a question about the effects of spermicide.  We have a Ladycomp, but on yellow or red days we have been using sp.  For the past 4-5 months I have not had any mucous.  Until after we use sp, then I seem to gush with it for a whole day.  I know this is not normal for my body.  I am not nursing and know I'm ovulating, I just don't have the mucous to go with it.  It bothers me because I am so used to checking my cm along with temps as confirmation that I'm ovulating.  I guess it just helps me feel "normal".  Could the spermicide be changing the environment in my vagina?  Dh despises c*nd*ms and so wants to use sp.  The sp is the only thing I can think of that has changed my mucous.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: runnergirl February 11, 2008, 11:08:44 AM
It does change the environment. I got a Blazing yeast infection after using spermicide twice in my last fertile span. Never again for me.
Are you sure that what your seeing is mucous, and not the actual spermicide dripping out?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain February 11, 2008, 11:38:02 AM
I, too, have experienced ill effects from the use of spermicide, and therefore discontinued it after using only twice. I'm not an expert, but I would have to imagine that any chemical capable of killing a living organism would also likely kill any naturally occuring bacteria in your nether-regions, hence the change you've noticed.

If you take a few minutes to research this topic on the internet, you can find much information about the negative effects it causes for women in particular.  If you feel you still must use it, my best friend recommended a type which comes in the form of a "film". I'm not sure of the brand, but she said that it's a lot like a breath freshening strip that melts in your mouth...only this one melts in your...(ahem!)  :)

A side note on using a barrier method...make sure your husband is using the correct size. I was previously unaware that there are different sizes available, and obviously, it could make a significant impact on their comfort level. No further explaination needed, I hope!  ::) 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Leilani February 11, 2008, 12:18:50 PM
I just wanted to add that I never had a problem with spermicide myself but certain brands caused my hub ahem LOTS of pain and even the ones that didn't he could always tell if I was using it or not so it affected him.
I always worry that a crippled sperm is going to get through and then you would have a baby that was deformed because of it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 11, 2008, 12:26:26 PM
Thanks, ladies.  Perhaps I should try a different kind - something without Nox-9 in it.  I know it can't be good for me, but it's what dh has decided for now.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain February 11, 2008, 01:44:31 PM
Yes, you definitely need to go with what your husband is in favor of. Just make sure that you communicate with him if you have any adverse effects from the spermicide, as I'm sure he wouldn't want you to be hurt or in discomfort because of it.  If it works well for you, then that's great. According to my friend, it has been highly effective in preventing pregnancy for them.

If you find something else, please share it with us! We're always looking for good options to explore...   ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 12, 2008, 12:26:38 PM
Can you actually get sp without Nonoxynol-9 in it?  And would it be as effective?  I've been doing some research via internet and don't like what I see about Nox-9.  I read that it can actually strip the walls of your vagina.  Dh didn't like that very well when I told him.  But I can't seem to find many sp's without Nox-9.  Maybe I just need to go to the drugstore myself and look.  I always let dh do that!  :P
: Re: All About Birth Control
: diaperswyper February 12, 2008, 12:51:16 PM
  Has anyone used the Pearly Cycle Computer? It's a handheld version of the Lady comp, just a bit cheaper and doesn't have all the options the Ladycomp does.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 18, 2008, 08:40:58 AM
Every time I have post partum "issues" and get frustrated and tell hubby that he needs to make sure that this doesn't "happen" to me again  :D I find an article like this one...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330395,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330395,00.html)

As if I need another reason not to suggest getting fixed.   :o  I know this is an extreme case, and a rare fluke, but I don't want to take the chance that my husband could become either. 

I watched a special on TV this weekend on the prostate and it's job and men's health issues and I was floored about how little we (women) talk about our men's health on this site and how very little I know about keeping honey well.  It motivated me to know more.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: berthday February 18, 2008, 09:32:17 AM
A friend of mine was asking her Dr. about getting her tubes tied and the Dr. mentioned that it can be a form of abortion!???  The Dr. said that the egg can get fertilized and then just not be able to come down the tube. Is this true?? I thought it was crazy (I never heard of it before) but then what do I know? :P
: Re: All About Birth Control
: herbs girl February 18, 2008, 09:39:25 AM
  Has anyone used the Pearly Cycle Computer? It's a handheld version of the Lady comp, just a bit cheaper and doesn't have all the options the Ladycomp does.

I havent used it, but its supposed to be almost exactly like the Lady comp, but supposudly the battery doesnt last near as long, I think you have to send it in to get the battery replaced. Also, when you take your temp every morning, the display does not light up, and the Lady comp does. I have a Lady comp and I am glad I went with that. In fact, I wish I had the baby comp!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ShabbyChic February 18, 2008, 09:53:24 AM
Hey berthday, I'm guessing no it's not possible.  Logistically speaking, how could a seed swim up something that is tied?  I called my friend who directs a pregnancy support center and she said she doesn't believe this to be true either.  Plus I've never heard of an ectopic pregnancy after having tubes tied, and I'd think that I'd have heard of at least one if it were a possibility.  I did a LOT of research when we were figuring out what we were going to do, and ectopic pregnancy after tubal ligation never came up on any of the warning sites I went to. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: skelliott2 February 18, 2008, 10:26:48 AM
Well..  About 10 years ago a friend of mine who had her tubes tied did have an ectopic pregnancy, so I guess it is possible.  I don't know the statistics on it, or if she just had a bad job done, but she did have one.  Sad.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma February 18, 2008, 10:30:01 AM
I have a friend who had her tubes tied then after a couple yrs she had 2 SURPRISE!! Children.
Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: LKS February 18, 2008, 10:37:49 AM
Maybe those DRs need to work on their knots?
LKS
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma February 18, 2008, 10:40:11 AM
Maybe those DRs need to work on their knots?
LKS

I was told the procedure to do this is tie- cut -fuse(burn the ends)

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: LKS February 18, 2008, 10:43:47 AM
I know. I was being a smart aleck  ;D And I don't want it done no matter HOW they do it  :P
LKS
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma February 18, 2008, 10:46:13 AM
I know. I was being a smart aleck  ;D And I don't want it done no matter HOW they do it  :P
LKS

Same here! 

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma February 18, 2008, 10:49:02 AM
Way to funny!! And embarrassing I would imagine!

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt February 18, 2008, 11:57:52 AM
A friend of mine was asking her Dr. about getting her tubes tied and the Dr. mentioned that it can be a form of abortion!???  The Dr. said that the egg can get fertilized and then just not be able to come down the tube. Is this true?? I thought it was crazy (I never heard of it before) but then what do I know? :P
There are occurrences of ectopic pregnancy.  Read more about it here.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy
If pregnancy occurs after tubal ligation it can be an ectopic pregnancy, one growing in the tube.  This occurs in up to 65 percent of tubal ligation failures.  If the pregnancy makes it into the uterus it would be no different than any spontaneous intrauterine pregnancy without tubal ligation history.  That is to say, miscarriage, preterm labor, birth defects and full-term babies raised through college may result.  If an ectopic pregnancy occurs a laparoscopy or laparotomy would be required.  The pregnancy cannot survive.  The pregnancy needs to be removed as soon as an ectopic pregnancy is discovered.  If it is not removed it can rupture through the tube and cause intra-abdominal bleeding and death.
from http://www.drdecker.net/tubal%20ligation%20information.htm (http://www.drdecker.net/tubal%20ligation%20information.htm)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi February 18, 2008, 02:23:12 PM
Maybe those DRs need to work on their knots?
LKS

I was told the procedure to do this is tie- cut -fuse(burn the ends)

Em
There are several ways to do it.  Sometimes it's just a band on the tubes.  This is the easiest one to reverse.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: LoveSunflowers February 18, 2008, 02:37:04 PM
I met someone at a church we were visiting, who after having her third child, had her tubes tied. A few months later she was sick and nobody had a clue what was wrong with her. I think around 4 mos. later they had her take a pregnancy test just for the heck of it and it was positive. She explained that her body has always healed things quickly, sometimes too quickly. Anyway, her body "healed" her tied tubes. So, maybe it isn't just her and for some people it just takes longer for the body to heal the tubes. Just a thought, I don't really know what I am talking about.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 18, 2008, 05:27:54 PM
Just a thought, I don't really know what I am talking about.

 ;D ;D Sounded good enough to me!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jhandrh February 28, 2008, 10:20:25 AM
I feel a little silly posting this question based on the last 2 posts on this thread--but oh well, here goes.  Dh and I have 3 beautiful kids and he feels that his quiver is full.  Due to hormone issues for me that have been problematic since puberty (long story, different thread), natural family planning is not something I feel would be reliable for us.  And, even if it was, dh is not real thrilled w/ the idea of it either.  He would either like to have me on the pill or for one of us to do something permanent.  After reading through this thread, I have noticed more negatives about vasectomies than tubal ligations.  I realize both have their downsides, but I am kind of leaning toward a tubal ligation for me.  There is prostate cancer in his family so I really don't feel comfortable w/ him getting snipped.  And if I would happen to get pg after getting my tubes tied, he is philosophical enough that he would figure that God meant it to be.   ;D  After he got over the initial shock, anyway.   ;)  I know that some of you will disagree w/ me, but I want to follow my dh's wishes.  Does it sound like I'm on the right track, medically?  And last question is:  is it better to do it sooner or later after having a baby?  My little guy is 3 months old on the 2nd of Mar.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: CountyCork February 28, 2008, 10:41:34 AM
I know nothing medical about the procedures. 

The pill, you may or may not know, can cause an abortion of a baby that has started life.  You might want to research that.  Plus, the horrible side effects of bc pills like hormone trouble, heart disease, breast cancer, etc., make it not such a good idea.

Someone else will have to chime in on the tubal.  Best wishes to you!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: his.silly.wife February 28, 2008, 10:46:40 AM
sooner rather than later...as long as dh and you are convinced.

I know a lady who waited, and when she went in...she was pregnant.  :o  After the baby was born, the story goes that she refused to leave the hospital before getting her tubes tied. 

I am so fertile I get prego if dh sneezes on me.

That would be a good description for her.   :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain February 28, 2008, 10:54:43 AM
Wow! You guys are fast! (or maybe I'm slow...) I just replied, and there were already three replies before mine!! Sorry if any of this is redundant.   ;D

I don't have a whole lot of specific information from you, but I will say that would never recommend the Pill to you. For a couple reasons:

1. It can cause an abortion.
When we were getting married, my physician (who is a Christian) advised us that the Pill can cause an abortion. The literature contained in the packaging doesn't say this, but the Physicians Desk Reference specifically states that the "primary mechanism" the pill uses to prevent pregnancy is to inhibit ovulation. The "secondary mechanism" is to inhibit implantation of a fertilized egg. Layman's terms: if you happen ovulate, you could still conceive, and the pill would make it difficult for the fertilized egg to be established in your womb, therefore causing the baby to die.

2. It wreaks havoc on your body.
I know that many women have had splendid experiences with the Pill, but I also know many (including me...taking it to regulate my cycle before marriage) who believe that the Pill did more harm than good. The way that it messes with your natural cycle can cause future weirdness in your hormones. I was extremely nauseous and I felt like my body was just "out of whack" all the time.

As far as Natural Family Planning...I don't know your circumstance, but for me... I am very irregular, and sometimes I think I ovulate twice or not at all. I have been using the method described in "Love and Fertility" by Mercedes Arzu Wilson, and eight months later, I'm not pregnant! It has taken this long to truly understand my body and be able to know where I am in my cycle by observation alone, but I believe that I'm finally confident in this system. When I think about it...women down through the ages must have had some method they used before barrier methods, surgical procedures, and hormone control was available. Even farmers use this method to know when to mate their animals (my parents live next to a farm in Ireland...great way to learn biology growing up!).

That's my 2 cents.  I'm sure many of the other ladies on here are more experienced and knowledgeable than I, and I am eager to hear their answers too!

kate
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 February 28, 2008, 01:03:21 PM
The pull out method works nicely, too.  No babies here for going on 2 years and I am so fertile I get prego if dh sneezes on me. :)

My advice - Don't depend on the pull-out method!!! That's how I got prego with my first. I was practicing NFP and knew I was in my fertile phase. Ended up I ovulated on the same day. So, we had a boy ;D. Now we abstain during fertile times and we haven't had an unwanted prego since.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jhandrh February 28, 2008, 01:17:46 PM
[quote author=lovingmomof2 link=topic=785.msg157012#msg157012  The pull out method works nicely, too.  No babies here for going on 2 years and I am so fertile I get prego if dh sneezes on me. :)
[/quote]

Hee, hee, that's really fertile!!  ;D  I don't seem to be that much so--my first 2 kids each took over a year to conceive.  #3 was quicker.  I have a friend who conceived twice on the pull-out method, though--not sure I want to rely on it, since, even w/ my wacky hormones, pregnancy is obviously not out of the realm of possibility.
Thanks for the replies, everyone.  I guess it doesn't matter, then, whether I get it done sooner or later?  We are using the spermicide films which so far have worked for us but are really expensive.  (With a little baby in the house, we don't need them as often right now :( but that will change as he gets older.  

This is a little bit of a rabbit trail, but still on topic--I have done a lot of reading on the pill, so I'm aware of the information.  I read the package inserts, the booklet by Randy Alcorn, talked to my kids' Mennonite pediatrician, and my pastor, and some friends as well.  And boy, it's hard to sort out the info!  The pastor and the pediatrician both were of the opinion that it was okay for medical reasons.  I read the Randy Alcorn info over several times and, from the way it's worded, I honestly don't think that he has found any more definitive information that  the pill DOES cause abortions, than anyone else has found that it DOESN'T.  I would have to re-read it to find the exact wording for you.  (I'll find that and post it when i can--probably won't be able to get to it right away though.)  I don't like being on it, in case I'm wrong, but I needed to do something and I wasn't offered a lot of other options.  A person can't bleed constantly without causing harm to her body.  I did a lot of reading and praying about it.  I wanted my babies and the last thing i wanted to do was to take something that would cause harm to them before birth.  I was on the pill for several years and it did help me a lot.  I would say that it's something that, if you feel it is wrong, don't do it.  but if it's for medical reasons, or your hubby wants you to take it, i am not going to condemn anyone for taking it.  It's ultimately between a husband and wife and God.  Just my 2 cents on that.  
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama February 28, 2008, 05:34:58 PM

I don't have a whole lot of specific information from you, but I will say that would never recommend the Pill to you. For a couple reasons:

1. It can cause an abortion.
When we were getting married, my physician (who is a Christian) advised us that the Pill can cause an abortion. The literature contained in the packaging doesn't say this, but the Physicians Desk Reference specifically states that the "primary mechanism" the pill uses to prevent pregnancy is to inhibit ovulation. The "secondary mechanism" is to inhibit implantation of a fertilized egg. Layman's terms: if you happen ovulate, you could still conceive, and the pill would make it difficult for the fertilized egg to be established in your womb, therefore causing the baby to die.


The way I've understood the "secondary mechanism" to work is that it changes the lining of the uterus.  Thus making it unable for the fertilized egg to implant.  And so the newly-conceived little one dies and is flushed out with the woman's menses.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jhandrh February 29, 2008, 08:34:24 AM
i hope i have not offended anyone either.  from what i understand of Randy Alcorn's info, the pill COULD  cause abortions but is not GUARANTEED to, based on the fact that the primary mechanism of its function is the prevention of ovulation, the secondary mechanism the hostile uterine lining. (if anyone wants to read the text of his pamphlet, it is on his Eternal Perspectives Ministries website.)  it does make me sad, because i am sure that i had at least one miscarriage while on it.  but i also had one, and possibly more, while not on the pill, i think due to my wacky hormones messing up the beginning of pregnancy.  so, did the pill cause me to miscarry?  i don't know. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac February 29, 2008, 10:43:24 AM
Apart from the abortion issue; however, there is a very real connection to a woman's health being adversely affected by it's use.  Even when I was questioned by my CNM postpartum about why wouldn't we use the pill, she was uninformed about the health implications and the abortive implications.   :o  When she looked it up in her medical book, she got a little lesson.  Very surprised, to say the least, was she.

I am a bit outraged at the negligent attitude concerning the pill where women's health issues are concerned.
Just some thoughts,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac February 29, 2008, 05:12:24 PM
I was on the BCP for about 8 or so months at the first of our marriage.  My OB/GYN prescribed it.  I heard an interview about the pill on the radio,and some of the ladies in my church called in and asked about the implications of the pill where spontaneous abortion is concerned.  When we heard the truth, I called my OB for verification and she said that it was a possibility.  We stopped it's use immediately.

I was NOT the same person on the pill.  Even though it was inconvenient for us to stop using it physically, I was really relieved because even after less than a year I was a hormonal roller coaster.

I understand what you say, skelliot 2, about feeling the way you do.  I felt a bit defrauded.

I wonder if the BCPs ought to have a medical warning on each package of them like cigarettes do.  So then, at least women are informed of what may happen, what the risks are to their bodies and to life which they may could carry.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock March 01, 2008, 03:20:52 PM
Here are two quotes from posts I made earlier in this thread that I think are relevant to the current discussion.

Basically all chemical contraception has the potential to abort.  Two of my sisters were given types of BC from their doctor.  The doctor said that the BC didn't work as an abortifacient, but from later research my sisters both found out they were given misinformation.  Research is important.

Absolutely. I did my own research on this years ago and even called a few local pharmacists to see what their info said. One particular call will always stick with me... She was a wonderfully cheerful and helpful pharmacist and after reading some information from her reference book I stopped her and asked didn't that mean that it could, and in many cases would, abort a fertilized egg. She basically said "What?" as in which part was I talking about (she sounded surprised). So I repeated what she had just read and asked again. She fell silent like she was rereading it to herself, and then slowly and in a decidedly sadder tone, she said, "Yes. It does mean that." I believe she had never thought about it before and now that she knew, it really disturbed her.

Another pharmacist became so angry at my question that he abruptly ended the conversation.

Some doctors brought this issue up to the AMA and wanted them to make it mandatory for patients to be told of this function of the pill before they consented to take it. There was no debate from anyone as to the truth of it, they admitted that it was true, but the AMA still ruled that doctors do not have to tell their patients about this. They felt that this info was not important to the health and wellbeing of the patient. I disagree.

WR


According to my research and what was read to me from the pharmacist's desk reference...

If the pill were all estrogen then it would simply prevent ovulation. But when an all estrogen pill was tried some VERY nasty things happened and women died! So, they found they had to reduce the amount of estrogen -- hence todays "low-dose" pill (the only kind made anymore). BUT the amount of estrogen that would make it "safe" was too low to prevent ovulation on a reliable basis and there were a lot of breakthrough ovulations. So progesterone was added as a backup. This makes the uterus "inhospitable". It does this in two ways. One is that it makes the mucus thinner and so it's somewhat harder for sperm to travel and the second is it makes changes to the lining of the uterus so that it is very hard for a fertilized egg to implant or stay implanted. This second effect is by definition a chemically induced abortion.

Many people don't consider a woman to be pregnant until the egg implants and so they do not consider the prevention of implantion of a fertalized egg to be an abortion. I think that some doctors rationize it this way. And some are just like that pharmacist and just don't think about it at all. And some, no doubt, are just ignorant of this aspect of the pill.

WR

If I had a medical condition that was treated by the pill (which has happened to me in the past), I would take it but I would also use other methods to avoid the fertilization of an egg (with my dh's blessing).

WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 05:56:22 AM
I've done both.

I've taken oral contraceptives (many different varieties) for many years and I would never recommend them for any reason.  They will totally wreak havoc on your poor body.  The hormone imbalance can really cause a lot of secondary problems later in life.

I also have had a tubal.  Tubals have medical complications as well and I've considered asking for a reversal because I seem to have some hormonal problems that I cannot fix and I suspect that it's the tubal procedure that caused them.  My mother also had a tubal ligation.  Later she had "unexplained" hemorrhaging which led to a full hysterectomy.  I suspect that her use of oral contraceptives started the problems and the tubal added to the damage.

Personally, I would also not recommend this either, but if I had to choose one or the other, I would go with the tubal.  I would also choose the tubal over the vasectomy in a heart beat. 

If there is another way that's more natural and your husband can live with it, I would go in that direction. 

Have you ever considered a diaphragm?  You could use NFP to chart your fertile times and have 2-3 weeks of "safe" time and then use the diaphragm for your more fertile days.  Just a thought.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 10:52:50 AM
As a courtesy to fellow members, I would ask that first you address the question posted without personal attacks or making assumptions about their beliefs and/or level of intelligence. 

Dh and I have 3 beautiful kids and he feels that his quiver is full.  Due to hormone issues for me that have been problematic since puberty (long story, different thread), natural family planning is not something I feel would be reliable for us.  And, even if it was, dh is not real thrilled w/ the idea of it either.  He would either like to have me on the pill or for one of us to do something permanent.  After reading through this thread, I have noticed more negatives about vasectomies than tubal ligations.  I realize both have their downsides, but I am kind of leaning toward a tubal ligation for me.  There is prostate cancer in his family so I really don't feel comfortable w/ him getting snipped.  And if I would happen to get pg after getting my tubes tied, he is philosophical enough that he would figure that God meant it to be.   ;D  After he got over the initial shock, anyway.   ;)  I know that some of you will disagree w/ me, but I want to follow my dh's wishes.  Does it sound like I'm on the right track?  And last question is:  is it better to do it sooner or later after having a baby?  My little guy is 3 months old on the 2nd of Mar.

In the past couple of days, I have seen very few replies that even address the intent of the initial post.

Please post if you have information that first answers the questions asked or that may pertain to subject in some manner and you are able to substantiate the information given in anecdotal evidence, personal experience or research of some kind.  Please be kind enough to give us your references when applicable so that we may do our own research when desired.


1) Don't Proselytize - Proselytizing is making any definite statement in lieu of evidence, personal experience, or personal theory in an effort to lead others to your conclusion. To avoid this, just preface any absolute statements with, "I believe..." or "In my opinion..." or better yet, "It has been my experience that..." Instead of saying, "American cars are the best, and foreign cars are unpatriotic" say something like, "I grew up in the midwest and saw firsthand the devastation of the wholesale move to Japanese cars in the 80's. My personal opinion is that the American mentality of 'me first' lost us as a country a great opportunity to nurture native industry back to health and contributed to our current infatuation with products made in communist China."...

4) No FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) - We want real stories, real examples, real stuff. If you are not sure about something... anything... just say, "I am not sure this is safe, but..." or "My mom who is no real authority, thinks this is not healthy." That is sufficient. If you just have a gut feeling, that is fine... say, "My gut feeling is that..."


Please do not reply if the information you have to offer is of a political or religious nature which would debate the ethics of such a procedure.

5) NO BIBLE DEBATE - If a part of a Bible text is in dispute in an issue, please post the question/comment on 7xSunday.net or a similar forum and continue the discussion there. Keep topics on WellTellMe fairly limited to practical as opposed to doctrinal discussions. And please, please don't sermonize... bleh.

Always keep in mind that you are human and can be wrong, that your experiences are limited, and that if you really are right then your objective is to convince and woo your audience, not drive them into depression and remorse. I'll try to keep this in mind as well...

Feel free to talk about any topic that you are willing to learn about.

Thank you,

WellTellMe Staff



Maybe this isn't the site to post this, but
maybe this belongs on 7xsunday instead of here? but anyway

If you are preceding your replies in the above manner, STOP and go with that thought.

These types of posts are unhelpful and uninvited and will be deleted.  If you have something of this nature that you are burdened to share, please take it to another forum of your choice where this subject matter is supported.

All current replies were reviewed and either edited for content or removed.  If your post was edited and it does not read in a way that suits you, please feel free to re-edit my edit, based on the things I’ve listed above.

This thread is very long and I will be doing some ongoing cleaning of the older posts as well.  If you find something that I missed that does not adhere to the intentions of the rules, please feel free to bring it to my attention.

Please take notice of the quotes below and the links listed with them.  These are topics already existing in 7xSunday that address these issues.  If you wish to participate in these discussions, you may take them there.

Thanks for your understanding.

~hb


to honor your husband and follow him in this way is ALWAYS right!  So that's the easy first step
but all the do whatever your husband says sometimes makes me wonder. I am a very submissive wife and I'm not questioning that principle in general but would you guys get an abortion if your husband said to?
I think (but I could be wrong) most ladies here have read CTBHHM and believe in the scriptural foundation for submission.  However, even Debi Pearl says we should obey our husbands unless to do so is to cause us to break God's laws
I would not get an abortion if hubby asked me to, though I'm confident that he wouldn't. If hubby's command goes against God's word, I would have to refuse, but it doesn't usually get to that point. An attitude of submission and an appropriate appeal can soften DH's heart and help him to understand the other side.
Wives Obey Your Husbands - is there an exception? (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,13590.0.html)
Opinions/questions/discussion on CTBHHM teachings (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,14151.0.html)



but anyway, what about endometrial ablations?  what if you get your tubes tied, have the ablation, and get pg even with the tubal?  this can kill mom and/or baby.  what about an ectopic pg after a tubal?  there is a chance of that, and in that case, a baby would have died because of a human intervention.  what about a mom who goes ahead w/ future pregnancies in spite of medical problems and then she or baby dies?  are any of these situations more or less wrong than being on the pill?  in all these, there is a chance, but not a guarantee, of loss of life, be it mom, baby, or both.  i am not trying to justify myself, i believe abortion is ALWAYS wrong.  but we are not God, and can't always have a one-size-size-fits-all answer for birth control situations.  i think that God will give us wisdom for each of our situations as we ask Him.
… I don't know why I see the connection, but it just gets me, also, how abortion could even be considered a "medical option" for pregnant women who have had blood tests that say they have a 1 in 5 chance of having a baby with disabilities, or some such other diagnosis.

Medical option?  There is nothing life saving, nurturing, or helpful about either of these things.  Grant it, I understand it that the pill is supposed to help with some physical conditions.  So, I won't say anything about that.  And grant it, the pill is very efficient at temporary infertility.  But are women told the risks?  Is it printed in normal or larger print (like cigarrette cartons) that there are possible risks for those pills?…
I will say my personal conviction is that, like other medicines, the BCP is over-prescribed. There are certain medical conditions, such as the ones you mentioned, that warrant the BCP to prevent further medical problems of a more serious nature. In those cases, I see no moral compromise, provided that the couple understands the potential (not guarantee, mind you) for a chemically-induced abortion. That said, if it were me, I would use another method of birth control in addition to the BCP, so as to be sure that we were doing our part. The rest can only be left up to God…

Conditional Immortality (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,11932.0.html)


I wonder if we should inform women of both sides, health and conscience, about the pill.  Somehow, I don't think I can do that with my cousins unless they ask.  And yet, oh my the implications of the use, particularly longterm, for them and their possible, unknown children.
I still am not sure about speaking to young ladies who don't ask me.  They already know what I think, and they don't ask.  So I don't feel I can breach this area, particularly since I feel it is a very private issue between husband and wife.
Each situation is different but I try to sit down with my girlfriends  before they get married and say Hey, I know you and your soon to be are trying to figure out what to do here...you ovbiously know how I feel (we have 3 kids 3 and under and have been married for a little over 4 years)  but what's important is that as you guys prayerfully consider these things - you don't have to do things "my way"...I just want you to have this info. Than I have print outs for them about the bcp and such and just say hey read over this together. This is just info I think you should know…

Chaste Conversation: What is it? How do I do this? (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,16198.0.html)
Women talking about doctrine vs. teaching it (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4969.0.html)
Paul suffers not a woman to teach...... (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4555.0.html)
Suffer a woman not to teach -- Discussion (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,13476.0.html)
Where do you draw the line at 'teaching doctrine' for ladies? (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4329.0.html)
Counseling Help!!! (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,14380.0.html)
Aged Woman or Nagging Mom? (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4562.0.html)


just reading that makes me so sad.  i was on the pill for several years

Sin No More (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4511.0.html)
Spiritual Depression (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4900.0.html)



Other topics related to the spiritual aspects of birth control.

Talk to hubby now or later about more kids? (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4224.0.html)
The quiverfull movement  (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,5349.0.html)
OTC Morning After Abortion Pill is Approved by Government (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4302.0.html)
NFP dilemma. Opinions Please! (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,10937.0.html)
How can husband lead if he's not in the word? (http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,11540.0.html)


: Re: All About Birth Control
: jhandrh March 03, 2008, 12:17:19 PM
Thank you for answering my questions, hb.  i could not find the link to 7x Sunday, i know i saw it but could not remember where.  Sorry to post a rabbit trail off topic.  Because of the nature of many of the previous posts on this thread i thought that it would be okay to put it here, but i see it was not; and i apologize.  I have a further question on the tubal ligation as well.  my hormones have been so wacky ever since puberty, that i have had many of the symptoms of "post-tubal ligation syndrome" without ever having had my tubes tied.  After having my first baby 7 years ago , I have not had one cycle other than when i was on the pill.  I was diagnosed w/ pcos in '05--another thread.  Has anyone started out with messed up hormones before having a tubal, and did the tubal change anything?  And are there any sources of info on post-tubal ligation syndrome that are not funded by docs who stand to make bookoo bucks from doing reversals?  When i googled it, i could not find anything unbiased.  Could someone point me in the right direction?  thanks.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie March 03, 2008, 01:17:52 PM
Just a thought I'll probably sound like HB here...but have you looked into a candida over growth?  My sis wasn't getting her periods and such and went to a nutritionist and did a yeast cleanse and got them back and got preggo...which I know the getting preggo part isn't what you are looking for :) and my sis was quite content to go w/o the hassle of the period ... but the nutritionist reminded her that wasn't healthy .. just an idea? h
: Re: All About Birth Control
: nexis777 March 03, 2008, 02:08:21 PM
Hey HB,
   I was wondering, based on your post before the re-direct, why would you do a tubal ligation before you'd want your dh to have a vasectomy? Is one more dangerous than the others. I was always under the influence (from brief research) that the tubal was harder on the woman than the vasectomy on the man.... but I'd love to hear your reasons.
My dh has indicated that he will likely get a vasectomy after our fourth child, because he would prefer not to have any more than that. So, I'd like to know more info if you wouldn't mind sharing.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 02:21:34 PM
Hey HB,
   I was wondering, based on your post before the re-direct, why would you do a tubal ligation before you'd want your dh to have a vasectomy? Is one more dangerous than the others. I was always under the influence (from brief research) that the tubal was harder on the woman than the vasectomy on the man.... but I'd love to hear your reasons.
My dh has indicated that he will likely get a vasectomy after our fourth child, because he would prefer not to have any more than that. So, I'd like to know more info if you wouldn't mind sharing.
I would have opted the other way before WTM because of the normal stuff "less invasive", "outpatient", yada, yada.  The only reason I chose to do the tubal back then is because I had a C-Section and I was already "open".  Didn't make sense to make us both get surgery.  But today, after reading all of the experiences of the men who've had them and want them reversed because of scar tissue and that sort of thing.  I really believe that my "sacrifice" was worth it to prevent hubby from having these problems.  I don't think my symptoms are so bad as his might have been.  I've only been tied for 4 years, so I may have a different opinion in another 5 years.  I'll be sure and let you know.  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 02:32:10 PM
Hey HB,
   I was wondering, based on your post before the re-direct, why would you do a tubal ligation before you'd want your dh to have a vasectomy? Is one more dangerous than the others. I was always under the influence (from brief research) that the tubal was harder on the woman than the vasectomy on the man.... but I'd love to hear your reasons.
My dh has indicated that he will likely get a vasectomy after our fourth child, because he would prefer not to have any more than that. So, I'd like to know more info if you wouldn't mind sharing.
Before WTM I would have opted for the vasectomy because of the normal media "less invasive" and such.  I did however get a tubal anyway because I was already open in the op room getting my 3rd C-section.  After WTM and reading the vasectomy thread and the experience of others, I would opt for the tubal either way.  I feel like the symptoms I may or may not have are less than what my husband could have suffered with the vasectomy.  I have heard that many have had success with their vasectomies, however, knowing that many do not often connect correct symptoms with the right cause, and most people don't bring up birth control in "polite conversation" there may be many more suffering than is realized.

HTH
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 02:33:18 PM
ugh, hate when the server "burps"  hahaha. ::)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: nexis777 March 03, 2008, 02:58:25 PM
LOL!!
Thanks for getting back to me so quick. That's kind of what I was wondering. If I was already under the knife for a c-section, then yeah, I would probably go that route if that's what dh wanted. Hmm... I apparently haven't read as many man horror stories as you have (or heard). I've heard a lot of women horror stories though  :-[ ::) So... I guess it just depends. BUT, since dh volunteered....  ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 03:31:12 PM
LOL!!
Thanks for getting back to me so quick. That's kind of what I was wondering. If I was already under the knife for a c-section, then yeah, I would probably go that route if that's what dh wanted. Hmm... I apparently haven't read as many man horror stories as you have (or heard). I've heard a lot of women horror stories though  :-[ ::) So... I guess it just depends. BUT, since dh volunteered....  ;)
I wonder if the difference in symptoms for the post tubal has anything to do with the fact that mine was during an open C-section and nowadays tubals are also outpatient surgeries done much like the gallbladder surgeries where they just poke a couple of holes in you and work from the outside???  Or maybe it's a difference in the abilities and techniques of the docs.  I really don't know for sure since I haven't figured out which hormonal symptoms are hooked to what.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie March 03, 2008, 04:39:05 PM
forgive my ignorance here please..but do you not get your periods or ovulate after a tubal..I'm confused as to why it would cause so many problems. I'm more aware of the bad side effects on the man w/ a vasectomny
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 05:01:11 PM
forgive my ignorance here please..but do you not get your periods or ovulate after a tubal..I'm confused as to why it would cause so many problems. I'm more aware of the bad side effects on the man w/ a vasectomny
I don't know why you get problems with it.  Haven't gotten that far in my research, but yes, you have periods.  So far they've been pretty much the same as any other.  More cramps and heavier for me than before, but I was on the pill then, so it's not really a good comparison.  Before I had my tubes tied, it was probably 17 years since I had a period with no interference from contraception of some kind.  I do remember, back then my cramps were pretty severe and I often needed several hours to rest and deal with it.  I still have to lie with the heating pad on occasion, but it's not like it was when I was a teen.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 03, 2008, 05:45:12 PM
If the pill were all estrogen then it would simply prevent ovulation. But when an all estrogen pill was tried some VERY nasty things happened and women died! So, they found they had to reduce the amount of estrogen -- hence todays "low-dose" pill (the only kind made anymore). BUT the amount of estrogen that would make it "safe" was too low to prevent ovulation on a reliable basis and there were a lot of breakthrough ovulations. So progesterone was added as a backup. This makes the uterus "inhospitable". It does this in two ways. One is that it makes the mucus thinner and so it's somewhat harder for sperm to travel and the second is it makes changes to the lining of the uterus so that it is very hard for a fertilized egg to implant or stay implanted. This second effect is by definition a chemically induced abortion.

How would this differ from taking a progesterone booster or supplement as chasteberry or wild yam?

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2059.msg33077.html#msg33077 (http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2059.msg33077.html#msg33077)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock March 04, 2008, 04:30:42 AM
I speculate that if you are simply bringing your levels back up to "normal" then there wouldn't be a problem, because normal progesterone levels shouldn't interfere with implantation (or else pregnancy would be rare indeed).

To go beyond the normal levels, is IMO, where you could get into risky territory. I would guess that the further you go beyond "normal" the higher the risk of causing abortion.

WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 05:03:47 AM
I speculate that if you are simply bringing your levels back up to "normal" then there wouldn't be a problem, because normal progesterone levels shouldn't interfere with implantation (or else pregnancy would be rare indeed).

To go beyond the normal levels, is IMO, where you could get into risky territory. I would guess that the further you go beyond "normal" the higher the risk of causing abortion.

WR
The link I posted in my reply is about using wild yam to prevent pregnancy.

Also, I think it would be difficult to regulate "bringing your levels up" with any accuracy, so the "risk" would still be there. 

I don't personally have a problem with wild yam, but I still suspect that it would work the same way as "the pill".
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 05:07:18 AM
Also, on the tubal/pill thing.  I spoke to a friend last night and she told me that her research has taught her (she's going to post later) that if you take the pill at the same time every day, that the risks of secondary protocol (rejected implantation) would be very low as the primary protocol would be very effective.  According to what she told me, the progesterone was added as the secondary protocol for those people who forget to take their pills every day or at the same time every day.

I still wouldn't recommend the pill because of it's affects on mom, but it's interesting information.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma March 04, 2008, 05:09:41 AM
Also, on the tubal/pill thing.  I spoke to a friend last night and she told me that her research has taught her (she's going to post later) that if you take the pill at the same time every day, that the risks of secondary protocol (rejected implantation) would be very low as the primary protocol would be very effective.  According to what she told me, the progesterone was added as the secondary protocol for those people who forget to take their pills every day or at the same time every day.

I still wouldn't recommend the pill because of it's affects on mom, but it's interesting information.

How can anyone have a good enough memory to do that?  ::)  Forgetful Fran that si my name....

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: *MommaJo* March 04, 2008, 05:57:57 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?


: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma March 04, 2008, 06:02:07 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?




An IUD?  My friend got one and her Doc said it will keep her from getting pregnant and not allow it to implant or it would terminate the pregnancy but it won't let a baby go full term. She was fine with this then but later had it removed do to how it made her feel. She didn't explain what she meant by that.So it could have been physical or other reason.

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: *MommaJo* March 04, 2008, 06:05:22 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?




An IUD?  .....

I'm not sure.  I'm kind of a birth control dummy.  I need to research it and educate myself a little.

: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 06:09:30 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?



Norplant??  I had one.  Terrible thing.  these go in the arm.  IUD goes into the uterus (I think).
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 06:10:33 AM
I speculate that if you are simply bringing your levels back up to "normal" then there wouldn't be a problem, because normal progesterone levels shouldn't interfere with implantation (or else pregnancy would be rare indeed).

To go beyond the normal levels, is IMO, where you could get into risky territory. I would guess that the further you go beyond "normal" the higher the risk of causing abortion.

WR
The link I posted in my reply is about using wild yam to prevent pregnancy.

Also, I think it would be difficult to regulate "bringing your levels up" with any accuracy, so the "risk" would still be there. 

I don't personally have a problem with wild yam, but I still suspect that it would work the same way as "the pill".
Bump?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma March 04, 2008, 06:15:25 AM
IUD

They are even used as a morning after pill But more effective if added within 5 days of sex. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrauterine_device

Many more pages on it.

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Whiterock March 04, 2008, 06:51:02 AM
I speculate that if you are simply bringing your levels back up to "normal" then there wouldn't be a problem, because normal progesterone levels shouldn't interfere with implantation (or else pregnancy would be rare indeed).

To go beyond the normal levels, is IMO, where you could get into risky territory. I would guess that the further you go beyond "normal" the higher the risk of causing abortion.

WR
The link I posted in my reply is about using wild yam to prevent pregnancy.

Also, I think it would be difficult to regulate "bringing your levels up" with any accuracy, so the "risk" would still be there. 

I don't personally have a problem with wild yam, but I still suspect that it would work the same way as "the pill".

I did look at the post you linked to, honest, but either something is going over my head or I'm not 'splainin' myself very well.

I would think it would work the same way as the pill too -- if it raised levels enough. But most women using it are doing so because their progesterone levels are so low as to cause health problems, so I just really doubt that they would be able to accidentally get their levels up to an abortifacient level with yam cream only. I've not researched it but years ago, I read that the creams are not that great at helping your body use the hormones they provide so you have to use a lot (as in continual use) to get much benefit from them. But if you start off with normal levels and purpose to raise them high enough to have a contraceptive/abortifacient effect, you could probably do so. And thats my uninformed opinion.  :P

WR
: Re: All About Birth Control
: SarahK March 04, 2008, 07:37:12 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?




An IUD?  .....

I'm not sure.  I'm kind of a birth control dummy.  I need to research it and educate myself a little.



Or are you thinkin' Norplant?

Norplant in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lewisquiverfull March 04, 2008, 08:57:18 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?



Norplant??  I had one.  Terrible thing.  these go in the arm.  IUD goes into the uterus (I think).

Yes, IUD goes in the uterus.  A dr will implant it for you. I had one about 8 years ago. I don't recommend them to anyone, ever. If you want info pm me.
We are doing the NFP now and highly recommend it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MamaSong March 04, 2008, 08:58:24 AM
LOL!!
Thanks for getting back to me so quick. That's kind of what I was wondering. If I was already under the knife for a c-section, then yeah, I would probably go that route if that's what dh wanted. Hmm... I apparently haven't read as many man horror stories as you have (or heard). I've heard a lot of women horror stories though  :-[ ::) So... I guess it just depends. BUT, since dh volunteered....  ;)
I wonder if the difference in symptoms for the post tubal has anything to do with the fact that mine was during an open C-section and nowadays tubals are also outpatient surgeries done much like the gallbladder surgeries where they just poke a couple of holes in you and work from the outside???  Or maybe it's a difference in the abilities and techniques of the docs.  I really don't know for sure since I haven't figured out which hormonal symptoms are hooked to what.

I asked my OB about this recently, as I will likely have my tubes tied during my next c-section.  He said that the problems that might result from tubal ligation surgery only come when it's an "external" entry.  When a surgeon enters from the outside, there is a risk that he might accidentally cut off the blood supply to one or both ovaries.  When your ovaries aren't functioning properly, your hormones start fluctuating and you may show signs of early menopause (thus the moods swings, hot flashes, irregular cycle, etc).

When you're already opened up for the c-section, the surgeon is coming up through the uterus to get to the fallopian tubes and isn't anywhere near the blood vessels to the ovaries.  So, yes, tubal ligation during a c-section is the safer route.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Grace March 04, 2008, 09:04:12 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?



Norplant??  I had one.  Terrible thing.  these go in the arm.  IUD goes into the uterus (I think).

Yes, IUD goes in the uterus.  A dr will implant it for you. I had one about 8 years ago. I don't recommend them to anyone, ever. If you want info pm me.
We are doing the NFP now and highly recommend it.
I had an Merena IUD for 2+ years. I had it taken out because I wanted to get PG. I know that health wise there is alot of possible problems(like with any homone BC), but mine actually was mostly problem free. The only difficulty I had was the lady who put it in cut the strings to short, so I couldn't check it every month like you are supposed to.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MamaSong March 04, 2008, 09:06:09 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?


It sounds like you're referring to Norplant.  So many women had such terrible side-effects that it was pulled from the market in 2002.  It's no longer available in the US.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 09:12:16 AM
LOL!!
Thanks for getting back to me so quick. That's kind of what I was wondering. If I was already under the knife for a c-section, then yeah, I would probably go that route if that's what dh wanted. Hmm... I apparently haven't read as many man horror stories as you have (or heard). I've heard a lot of women horror stories though  :-[ ::) So... I guess it just depends. BUT, since dh volunteered....  ;)
I wonder if the difference in symptoms for the post tubal has anything to do with the fact that mine was during an open C-section and nowadays tubals are also outpatient surgeries done much like the gallbladder surgeries where they just poke a couple of holes in you and work from the outside???  Or maybe it's a difference in the abilities and techniques of the docs.  I really don't know for sure since I haven't figured out which hormonal symptoms are hooked to what.

I asked my OB about this recently, as I will likely have my tubes tied during my next c-section.  He said that the problems that might result from tubal ligation surgery only come when it's an "external" entry.  When a surgeon enters from the outside, there is a risk that he might accidentally cut off the blood supply to one or both ovaries.  When your ovaries aren't functioning properly, your hormones start fluctuating and you may show signs of early menopause (thus the moods swings, hot flashes, irregular cycle, etc).

When you're already opened up for the c-section, the surgeon is coming up through the uterus to get to the fallopian tubes and isn't anywhere near the blood vessels to the ovaries.  So, yes, tubal ligation during a c-section is the safer route.
Interesting.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 09:12:58 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?


It sounds like you're referring to Norplant.  So many women had such terrible side-effects that it was pulled from the market in 2002.  It's no longer available in the US.
Yep, that was me.  Just call me guinea pig.  Ugh.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: nexis777 March 04, 2008, 09:39:33 AM
LOL!!
Thanks for getting back to me so quick. That's kind of what I was wondering. If I was already under the knife for a c-section, then yeah, I would probably go that route if that's what dh wanted. Hmm... I apparently haven't read as many man horror stories as you have (or heard). I've heard a lot of women horror stories though  :-[ ::) So... I guess it just depends. BUT, since dh volunteered....  ;)
I wonder if the difference in symptoms for the post tubal has anything to do with the fact that mine was during an open C-section and nowadays tubals are also outpatient surgeries done much like the gallbladder surgeries where they just poke a couple of holes in you and work from the outside???  Or maybe it's a difference in the abilities and techniques of the docs.  I really don't know for sure since I haven't figured out which hormonal symptoms are hooked to what.

I asked my OB about this recently, as I will likely have my tubes tied during my next c-section.  He said that the problems that might result from tubal ligation surgery only come when it's an "external" entry.  When a surgeon enters from the outside, there is a risk that he might accidentally cut off the blood supply to one or both ovaries.  When your ovaries aren't functioning properly, your hormones start fluctuating and you may show signs of early menopause (thus the moods swings, hot flashes, irregular cycle, etc).

When you're already opened up for the c-section, the surgeon is coming up through the uterus to get to the fallopian tubes and isn't anywhere near the blood vessels to the ovaries.  So, yes, tubal ligation during a c-section is the safer route.
Interesting.
I'd just been reading on another forum about a lady who had had her tubes tied after a c-section who was having MAJOR issues... enough so that her husband who ABSOLUTELY does NOT want more children, consented to a reversal. Some of hers were emotional issues... just constant crabbiness and that sort of thing (which she didn't even realize was so bad until he talked with her about it), but she also said that she was having her period WAY late, thus making her think perhaps she was pregnant (miraculously), but then a ways later she would start bleeding so heavily as to be almost hemorraghing. As I recall it was really really painful for her too.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama March 04, 2008, 07:25:11 PM
I was just reading about the hypothalamus and its role. An article stated that possible cause for post tubal ligation syndrome is neural feedback to the hypothalamus which causes an imbalance in the female hormones. The imbalance then causes symptoms such as moodiness, irregular periods, etc.
I am so frustrated because  I cannot find that reference now.  >:( It was the first time that I could see a plausible connection between tubal ligation and all the symptoms that can follow.
If you are considering this procedure please be careful. I personally know several women who seem to suffer from PTS and most of them were/are strong and normally balanced women. ALL of them now struggle with hormone imbalances and resulting weight gain, irregular menstruation and tormenting emotional swings. Even though I can't offer solid proof as of today that tubal ligation is harmful; I am convinced that such proof will be found.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 04, 2008, 07:46:31 PM
I was just reading about the hypothalamus and its role. An article stated that possible cause for post tubal ligation syndrome is neural feedback to the hypothalamus which causes an imbalance in the female hormones. The imbalance then causes symptoms such as moodiness, irregular periods, etc.
I am so frustrated because  I cannot find that reference now.  >:( It was the first time that I could see a plausible connection between tubal ligation and all the symptoms that can follow.
If you are considering this procedure please be careful. I personally know several women who seem to suffer from PTS and most of them were/are strong and normally balanced women. ALL of them now struggle with hormone imbalances and resulting weight gain, irregular menstruation and tormenting emotional swings. Even though I can't offer solid proof as of today that tubal ligation is harmful; I am convinced that such proof will be found.
Here's one that mentions it.

http://members.tripod.com/~sterilization_rights/Symtoms_PTS.html (http://members.tripod.com/~sterilization_rights/Symtoms_PTS.html)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama March 04, 2008, 08:48:10 PM
Thanks, HB!

So in your opinion...Would a tubal reversal restore any or most of the neural sensors in turn relieving PTS?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 05, 2008, 04:26:59 AM
Thanks, HB!

So in your opinion...Would a tubal reversal restore any or most of the neural sensors in turn relieving PTS?
Good question.  I was wondering the same thing, but my guess is "no".  I just really wouldn't know.

I need to break this thread up as time allows..it's a monster, but you might want to continue the tubal discussion over here.

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,10055.0.html (http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,10055.0.html)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: *MommaJo* March 05, 2008, 07:52:01 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?


It sounds like you're referring to Norplant.  So many women had such terrible side-effects that it was pulled from the market in 2002.  It's no longer available in the US.

I think this is a new thing.  I've seen it advertised. 
Here are a few links.  I have NOT read these yet, though.

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Birth-Control-Testing.htm

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/nyc/birth-control-.htm

Oh, I just saw it on the planned parenthood page.  It's called Mirena.
BTW, is planned parenthood pro-abortion?

: Re: All About Birth Control
: MamaSong March 05, 2008, 07:53:30 AM
I may have missed this, but has anyone had any experience with that thing you insert and it prevents pregnancy for 5 years?


It sounds like you're referring to Norplant.  So many women had such terrible side-effects that it was pulled from the market in 2002.  It's no longer available in the US.

I think this is a new thing.  I've seen it advertised. 
Here are a few links.  I have NOT read these yet, though.

http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Birth-Control-Testing.htm

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/nyc/birth-control-.htm

Oh, I just saw it on the planned parenthood page.  It's called Mirena.
BTW, is planned parenthood pro-abortion?



Planned Parenthood is VERY pro-abortion.

And Mirena is a type of IUD.  Here's a lengthy list of side-effect/potential complications for you (which includes spontaneous abortion & ectopic pregnancy):

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/mirena_wcp.htm
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma March 05, 2008, 07:55:27 AM

BTW, is planned parenthood pro-abortion?



Yes very much so.

Em
: Re: All About Birth Control
: pljammie March 05, 2008, 09:39:13 AM
My OB/GYN LOVES the mirena and really wanted me to get one.  When she explained it, I said, "But isn't it an IUD?"  She said yes, but way better...

I was really surprised that she was so happy with it and really pressured me to get one.  She is catholic and seemed very pro-life.  In the literature that she gave me, it stated that it worked to either disrupt implantation of the fertilized egg or possibly prevented fertilization (it slow releases a small amount of estrogen/progestrone during the time it is in you).  The literature stated that they weren't exactly sure why it worked so well.  Anyway, it did not meet my needs so I didn't get one.  I've been taking YAZ (a b/c pill) but after what I've read I want to try another option that is pro-life in addition to other concerns about the b/c pill.  I'm considering a diaphragm and hubby is considering a vasectomy.

Jammie
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen March 05, 2008, 09:49:23 AM
Just an FYI...

Yaz is also made to treat mood disorder too right? Is there any antidepressant drugs in this form of BC also?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie March 05, 2008, 09:51:11 AM
just wanted to add this to the discussion, as i am very interested in it, am looking to hear from any that have used it, and thought maybe some didn't know about it.  

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,6671.0.html

www.leasshield.com

: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen March 05, 2008, 09:56:26 AM
Science defines pregnancy as when the fertilized egg (ie conception) implants into the endometrium. So, I guess if she believes in Science, it would not conflict with her "pro-llife" views. Here's the thing though.... MDs are just people.... They don't know everything. Many of them don't really know the difference and what we are talking about.

Conception: Egg and Sperm meet. Life! Cells begin multiplying immediately.
Implantation/Scientific "Pregnancy": Zygote (conception) implants into woman's Endometrium about 3 days after conception.  

The hormonal birth controls do 2 things:
1. Prevent Ovulation
2. Make the endometrium (part of the uterus) inhospitable to a fertilized egg (conception). Because break through ovulation does occur on hormonal birth controls...that is why they added this component.

Non-hormonal IUD does just one thing: Makes the uterus inhospitable. It does NOT prevent ovulation. The funny thing is.... scientists do not even know WHY the IUD works....NO idea!

Now, the hormonal IUDs do 2 things:
1. tries to prevent ovulation
2. does the normal IUD thing and makes your endometrium inhospitable to a fertlized egg.

Does all that make sense?

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time. But, again....there is that 2nd line of defense that many see to be abortifacent.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac March 05, 2008, 09:59:27 AM
just wanted to add this to the discussion, as i am very interested in it, am looking to hear from any that have used it, and thought maybe some didn't know about it.  

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,6671.0.html

www.leasshield.com



Just that I am wondering here if this barrier (particularly with no spermicide ) is about the same as the condom??
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Jemima March 05, 2008, 10:03:14 AM
So from what I've gathered reading here, there isn't a birth control option that is not abortifacient in some kind or another? (Besides surgery alternatives).  I know zilch on this subject, but am trying to do some research on it now, and definately do not want to destroy life in any stage.

ETA: I should add that I was planning on talking to my MD about my options, but now I'm thinking she probably wouldn't have anything to offer me, based on my 100 % pro-life stance, would she?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: chrysalyde March 05, 2008, 10:05:28 AM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen March 05, 2008, 10:07:11 AM
So from what I've gathered reading here, there isn't a birth control option that is not abortifacient in some kind or another? (Besides surgery alternatives).  I know zilch on this subject, but am trying to do some research on it now, and definately do not want to destroy life in any stage.

There are plenty of birth control options that are not considered abortifacent.

But, when it comes to hormonal birth controls (The Pill, Mirena, the patch, the shot, etc).... The no, those all can be abortifacent. The plain IUD is not hormonal, BUT it is 100% abortifacent.

Some methods that are not considered abortifacent:
Barrier methods- condoms, diaphragm
Natural Family Planning
Surgical Methods.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen March 05, 2008, 10:12:37 AM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !

I doubt there is one, because each pill has a different amount of hormones.
The old birth control pills (60s,70s) were made only to prevent ovulation. But, because they were so high in estrogen, the pills had a lot of bad side effects. So, drug companies made them differently.
Today, the pills are much lower in estrogen and have progesterone.

Basically, the higher the estrogen, the less likely for ovulation.
BUT, the higher the estrogen the more bad side effects: cancers, blood clots, mood disorders, etc.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen March 05, 2008, 10:17:14 AM
ETA: I should add that I was planning on talking to my MD about my options, but now I'm thinking she probably wouldn't have anything to offer me, based on my 100 % pro-life stance, would she?

An MD will tell you that hormonal birth controls do not end a pregnancy. But (read my above post), science defines a pregnancy as when the fertilized egg IMPLANTS into the endometrium.....which is a few days after conception.

So, she is correct when she says "The Pill does not end a pregnancy" according to her definition of pregnancy. 

HTH everyone.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie March 05, 2008, 10:21:26 AM
just wanted to add this to the discussion, as i am very interested in it, am looking to hear from any that have used it, and thought maybe some didn't know about it.  

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,6671.0.html

www.leasshield.com



Just that I am wondering here if this barrier (particularly with no spermicide ) is about the same as the condom??

me too!  wow, that would be great.  also, i haven't found anyone who has one, or how much it costs.  we are using condoms now and i hate them.  but they work for us.  healthwise i can't afford to be pregnant now. 

i am little stumped by how to get one though.  i'm sure my family dr. would be uninformed about them.   :-\
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac March 05, 2008, 11:30:29 AM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !

I doubt there is one, because each pill has a different amount of hormones.
The old birth control pills (60s,70s) were made only to prevent ovulation. But, because they were so high in estrogen, the pills had a lot of bad side effects. So, drug companies made them differently.
Today, the pills are much lower in estrogen and have progesterone.

Basically, the higher the estrogen, the less likely for ovulation.
BUT, the higher the estrogen the more bad side effects: cancers, blood clots, mood disorders, etc.

Hey Kristen,

Also, on a side note, the morning after pill is basically a much higher dose of estrogen.  I am thinking that is proof that the estrogen really works at making the endometium inhospitable, thus an abortofacient.  I got that from Randy Alcorn's book, which I can't find right now. ::)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: pljammie March 05, 2008, 11:40:44 AM
Could you get a lea's shield through a midwife?  Can they give you something that requires a script?  I'd think they would be more open to alternative forms of birth control.  I'm thinking of seeing a midwife rather than my ob/gynl because I just don't want to hear the "You're over 35 and your hubby needs to get fixed" speech.  I really liked her (oby/gyn) until I turned 35...lol.  I was thinking that a midwife could fit me for a diaphragm...but really am clueless in this area.  I've never seen a midwife before so I'm just guessing.


Jammie
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie March 05, 2008, 11:42:35 AM
Could you get a lea's shield through a midwife?  Can they give you something that requires a script?  I'd think they would be more open to alternative forms of birth control.  I'm thinking of seeing a midwife rather than my ob/gynl because I just don't want to hear the "You're over 35 and your hubby needs to get fixed" speech.  I really liked her (oby/gyn) until I turned 35...lol.  I was thinking that a midwife could fit me for a diaphragm...but really am clueless in this area.  I've never seen a midwife before so I'm just guessing.


Jammie

midwives are listed along with dr.s on the website, so i am thinking so, but our only midwife in our area just quit.   :-\ :-[
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac March 05, 2008, 11:42:58 AM
just wanted to add this to the discussion, as i am very interested in it, am looking to hear from any that have used it, and thought maybe some didn't know about it.  

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,6671.0.html

www.leasshield.com



Just that I am wondering here if this barrier (particularly with no spermicide ) is about the same as the condom??

me too!  wow, that would be great.  also, i haven't found anyone who has one, or how much it costs.  we are using condoms now and i hate them.  but they work for us.  healthwise i can't afford to be pregnant now. 

i am little stumped by how to get one though.  i'm sure my family dr. would be uninformed about them.   :-\

Well, I agree about the condom and not particularly liking that.  Also, I did use the daphragm for a while and it was very unccomfortable for the reasons noted in the article you linked.

It is a point, I am thinking, that barrier methods such as these (condom and this shield you are telling us about) does have a higher degree of uncertainty associated with them.  I, in fact, got pregnant (but miscarried) with condom use.  I will note that we do not use spermicide, so that may be an issue with the reliability.

My doc (who won't prescribe ANY BC but NFP, lol, so no help there as far as getting ahold of a shield) stated to me emphatically that hands down, NFP is the most reliable of anything out there, if done consistently.  Health implications are none.

I dunno, lol, I can think of one health implication with NFP without barrier use:  Irritation due to abstinence.  When I was having perimenopause symptoms after the miscarriage last February, do you all know what was good for horomone stability?  Well, let's just say it wasn't abstinence.  So, NFP, while appreciated around here, is hard for me.

The best method, just as far as enjoyment for a couple ;D, IMO, is using breastfeeding for spacing.   Now THAT takes the prize as far as freedoms, no health implications, and nothing to take or do.  Lotsa fun, but not practical for alot of us nowadays.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac March 05, 2008, 11:43:51 AM
Could you get a lea's shield through a midwife?  Can they give you something that requires a script?  I'd think they would be more open to alternative forms of birth control.  I'm thinking of seeing a midwife rather than my ob/gynl because I just don't want to hear the "You're over 35 and your hubby needs to get fixed" speech.  I really liked her (oby/gyn) until I turned 35...lol.  I was thinking that a midwife could fit me for a diaphragm...but really am clueless in this area.  I've never seen a midwife before so I'm just guessing.


Jammie

midwives are listed along with dr.s on the website, so i am thinking so, but our only midwife in our area just quit.   :-\ :-[

I can call in my area if you want, they are one size fit all.......send me a pm if you like.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen March 05, 2008, 06:43:26 PM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !

I doubt there is one, because each pill has a different amount of hormones.
The old birth control pills (60s,70s) were made only to prevent ovulation. But, because they were so high in estrogen, the pills had a lot of bad side effects. So, drug companies made them differently.
Today, the pills are much lower in estrogen and have progesterone.

Basically, the higher the estrogen, the less likely for ovulation.
BUT, the higher the estrogen the more bad side effects: cancers, blood clots, mood disorders, etc.

Hey Kristen,

Also, on a side note, the morning after pill is basically a much higher dose of estrogen.  I am thinking that is proof that the estrogen really works at making the endometium inhospitable, thus an abortofacient.  I got that from Randy Alcorn's book, which I can't find right now. ::)

cool!
Didn't know that....
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lotsaboys March 05, 2008, 06:57:09 PM

Also a condomn question,,

I hate the things but sometimes use them but i don't like ky and other artificial lubes but it says not to use oils with it...I use coconut oil with it...which will probably get me pregnant : ) but does anyone have any ideas/experience/knowledge about this?

I'm curious too...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. B March 05, 2008, 07:02:21 PM

Also a condomn question,,

I hate the things but sometimes use them but i don't like ky and other artificial lubes but it says not to use oils with it...I use coconut oil with it...which will probably get me pregnant : ) but does anyone have any ideas/experience/knowledge about this?

I'm curious too...
I thought that oils were okay, just not petroleum based products.  I would think coconut oil would be okay....
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac March 06, 2008, 06:05:01 AM

Also a condomn question,,

I hate the things but sometimes use them but i don't like ky and other artificial lubes but it says not to use oils with it...I use coconut oil with it...which will probably get me pregnant : ) but does anyone have any ideas/experience/knowledge about this?

I'm curious too...
I thought that oils were okay, just not petroleum based products.  I would coconut oil would be okay....

It's been awhile for our need of these, so does anyone know what it says on the package?  Also, would the directions for lubricants be different for latex than the latex free?  I think we used a homemade lubricant, it was likely coconut oil, olive oil and beeswax.  Lately, I've made (for a sort of allover body lotion) palm, coconut, olive oil with beeswax.  Any problem there, you think?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: chrysalyde March 07, 2008, 09:34:24 PM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !

I doubt there is one, because each pill has a different amount of hormones.


I'm a bit confused... if you doubt there is one, how can you say that "scientists" estimate that ovulation occurs 5-10% of the time taking the pill. There must be some serious scientific article out there that says that, even if it varies with the kind of pill. I do think what you say is true, but I just wouldn't want to be telling that to other people and be spreading rumors... Seeing that you usually make well-documented statements, I just thought maybe you would have a link to an article or something. But if you don't, that's OK, I'll just continue my search !  :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: pljammie April 09, 2008, 09:55:44 AM
A question about Tubal Ligation....

A new doc just started at my hubby's work (he works for a medical clinic) and is offering an "in office" tubal ligation without being put to sleep...Has anyone heard of this?  Any info would be appreciated.  I'll look at the TLS link I saw earlier as well. 

Also, is there a good link for information on NFP?  Can you buy a book to learn this or do you have to go to class? 


Jammie
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen April 09, 2008, 10:04:14 AM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !

I doubt there is one, because each pill has a different amount of hormones.


I'm a bit confused... if you doubt there is one, how can you say that "scientists" estimate that ovulation occurs 5-10% of the time taking the pill. There must be some serious scientific article out there that says that, even if it varies with the kind of pill. I do think what you say is true, but I just wouldn't want to be telling that to other people and be spreading rumors... Seeing that you usually make well-documented statements, I just thought maybe you would have a link to an article or something. But if you don't, that's OK, I'll just continue my search !  :)

Just saw this. I've read it on mainstream new sources, but don't have time to do any hardcore research right now.
It's called "break through ovulation"
Here is one link I just found:
http://www.quiverfull.com/birth_control/pill_abortifacient.html

Kristen
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac April 09, 2008, 10:47:02 AM

Also, if you take a birth control pill at the exact same time everyday....Then you are less likely to have a break through ovulation. BUT, it can still occur. Scientists estimate (I believe) that ovulation occurs about 5-10% of the time.

I have been looking for a reliable source that says this. If you have one, would you let me know ? Thanks !

I doubt there is one, because each pill has a different amount of hormones.


I'm a bit confused... if you doubt there is one, how can you say that "scientists" estimate that ovulation occurs 5-10% of the time taking the pill. There must be some serious scientific article out there that says that, even if it varies with the kind of pill. I do think what you say is true, but I just wouldn't want to be telling that to other people and be spreading rumors... Seeing that you usually make well-documented statements, I just thought maybe you would have a link to an article or something. But if you don't, that's OK, I'll just continue my search !  :)

Just saw this. I've read it on mainstream new sources, but don't have time to do any hardcore research right now.
It's called "break through ovulation"
Here is one link I just found:
http://www.quiverfull.com/birth_control/pill_abortifacient.html

Kristen

I just found this, also, and there might be some help for these questions:  Some of this is by Randy Alcorn, but I also notice a comprehensive list of other sources discussing this very thing, might be some links.  I believe one of Mr. Alcorn's books is on PDF and downloadable also.

http://www.epm.org/bcp.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie April 09, 2008, 01:11:49 PM
taking charge of your fertility is a good nfp book... you dont have to take a class
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 April 09, 2008, 07:05:00 PM

Also, is there a good link for information on NFP?  Can you buy a book to learn this or do you have to go to class? 


Jammie

Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler is a great book. Here's a thread as well on Natural Family Planning (http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,925.0.html).

My husband and I have been using this almost our entire marriage. It takes effort on both parts, but can be a great means of "family planning".
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt April 10, 2008, 08:08:44 AM
A question about Tubal Ligation....

A new doc just started at my hubby's work (he works for a medical clinic) and is offering an "in office" tubal ligation without being put to sleep...Has anyone heard of this?  Any info would be appreciated.  I'll look at the TLS link I saw earlier as well. 

Also, is there a good link for information on NFP?  Can you buy a book to learn this or do you have to go to class? 


Jammie
I believe this is the standard procedure these days.  They use locals and sometimes a bit of anesthesia, in and out (Laparoscopic surgery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laparoscopic_surgery)) and go home when the drugs wear off.  From what I've read, this method is more risky than having it done after a C-section.  Something about damage being done to the ovaries or something en route to the tubes.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: pljammie April 10, 2008, 02:23:23 PM
I found out more info regarding the "in office tubal"...It isn't a tubal ligation at all.  They insert spring type things into the fallopian tubes.  After 3 months scar tissue develops over the springs and permanently closes the tubes.  For more info click here:
www.essure.com

So you don't get cut, but you have some sort of material (similar to heart stints according to the website) scarred over for the remainder of your life.  Sounds like it could have lots of potential problems to me, including TLS...but I haven't read much on that so I may have to read up a bit more.  Anyway, I thought I'd share what I found out.

Jammie
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama April 21, 2008, 06:26:16 AM
I have a question about the effects of spermicide . . .  I am not nursing and know I'm ovulating, I just don't have the mucous to go with it.  It bothers me because I am so used to checking my cm along with temps as confirmation that I'm ovulating.  I guess it just helps me feel "normal".  Could the spermicide be changing the environment in my vagina? 

I just wanted to post that I may have found a way to restore my cervical mucous. TTU!!  ;D  I am very excited about this probably because it really bugs me when a little something is out-of-whack with the way things normally work.  ::)

I read online that sp does in fact change the environment of your vagina.  I already knew that from here, but it helped to confirm it.  I'd post it here, but it was an excerpt from a book and not copyable.

Anyway, I was on antibiotics for strep and afterwards began my regime of 6 TTU per day.  And last month I actually had some cm!  So I guess this could be a testimonial for TTU . . .  ;)

Just thought I'd share that with you ladies whose dh's decide sp is for you.  There just might be a way to be "normal" along with the sp.  It worked for me one month, so I'll see if it works again this month.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: his.silly.wife April 21, 2008, 06:32:55 AM
Just a piece of info I picked up recently...

If your dr tells you that you are too old to worry about getting pregnant or birth control, get a second opinion...and fast.  A couple we know had planned on a vasectomy, but the dr said the wife was too old to get pregnant (she's only 41).  Long story short, they are expecting for later this year.  ::)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama April 21, 2008, 06:35:06 AM
Just a piece of info I picked up recently...

If your dr tells you that you are too old to worry about getting pregnant or birth control, get a second opinion...and fast.  A couple we know had planned on a vasectomy, but the dr said the wife was too old to get pregnant (she's only 41).  Long story short, they are expecting for later this year.  ::)

 ;D ;D  Yeah, I know a couple like that, too.  20 years after their last son they had another one!  ;D  Blessings never cease!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jhandrh April 21, 2008, 06:49:44 AM
I found out more info regarding the "in office tubal"...It isn't a tubal ligation at all.  They insert spring type things into the fallopian tubes.  After 3 months scar tissue develops over the springs and permanently closes the tubes.  For more info click here:
www.essure.com

So you don't get cut, but you have some sort of material (similar to heart stints according to the website) scarred over for the remainder of your life.  Sounds like it could have lots of potential problems to me, including TLS...but I haven't read much on that so I may have to read up a bit more.  Anyway, I thought I'd share what I found out.

Jammie


My dr referred to a procedure in which they put little "plugs" in by going up through the uterus.  He said the plugs are ceramic, similar to the material used in artificial knee/hip replacement joints.  He said that the upside of this procedure is that there is no incision.  I didn't like the sound of it--it is a fairly new procedure and I don't want to be a guinea pig.  Not to mention couldn't they cause infection, etc.?  Is this the same procedure you are referring to?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac April 22, 2008, 11:59:24 AM
Another link of information about the BCP:

http://www.prolifephysicians.org/abortifacient.htm
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie May 07, 2008, 11:13:10 AM
ok there was a link posted on here I thought a bit ago and now I can't find it!! It was a cervical cap thing that you don't have to get fitted for??? any ideas anyone? My sis is getting married and my hubby and I are doing marriage counseling w/ them and this week they are suppose to be going over birth control...does anyone know of a place that goes over the different options and side effects (honestly) ...???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MamaPeach May 07, 2008, 11:46:52 AM
ok there was a link posted on here I thought a bit ago and now I can't find it!! It was a cervical cap thing that you don't have to get fitted for??? any ideas anyone? My sis is getting married and my hubby and I are doing marriage counseling w/ them and this week they are suppose to be going over birth control...does anyone know of a place that goes over the different options and side effects (honestly) ...???

Are you thinking of the Lea Shield? http://www.leasshield.com/ 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: its_me518 May 07, 2008, 12:44:53 PM
The best method, just as far as enjoyment for a couple ;D, IMO, is using breastfeeding for spacing.   Now THAT takes the prize as far as freedoms, no health implications, and nothing to take or do.  Lotsa fun, but not practical for alot of us nowadays.  

Uuummm... except for the fact that I GOT PREGNANT using that "wonderful" method!!!  ;)   ;) 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cjanderin May 07, 2008, 01:01:22 PM
The best method, just as far as enjoyment for a couple ;D, IMO, is using breastfeeding for spacing.   Now THAT takes the prize as far as freedoms, no health implications, and nothing to take or do.  Lotsa fun, but not practical for alot of us nowadays.  

Uuummm... except for the fact that I GOT PREGNANT using that "wonderful" method!!!  ;)   ;) 

My mum's friend had 3 boys in 3 years because she thought she wouldn't get pregnant while breastfeeding.  And she was fully breastfeeding - got pregnant within 2 months of having #1 and within 4 months of having #2!!  :o
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie May 08, 2008, 03:29:55 AM
ok there was a link posted on here I thought a bit ago and now I can't find it!! It was a cervical cap thing that you don't have to get fitted for??? any ideas anyone? My sis is getting married and my hubby and I are doing marriage counseling w/ them and this week they are suppose to be going over birth control...does anyone know of a place that goes over the different options and side effects (honestly) ...???

Are you thinking of the Lea Shield? http://www.leasshield.com/ 

That's exactly it! Thank you!!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen May 08, 2008, 04:24:22 AM
The best method, just as far as enjoyment for a couple ;D, IMO, is using breastfeeding for spacing.   Now THAT takes the prize as far as freedoms, no health implications, and nothing to take or do.  Lotsa fun, but not practical for alot of us nowadays.  


Uuummm... except for the fact that I GOT PREGNANT using that "wonderful" method!!!  ;)   ;) 

My mum's friend had 3 boys in 3 years because she thought she wouldn't get pregnant while breastfeeding.  And she was fully breastfeeding - got pregnant within 2 months of having #1 and within 4 months of having #2!!  :o

We used NFP successfully for many years.  I highly recommend taking a course or reading 'Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing' if you want to use breastfeeding this way.  It takes serious application to work properly.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mexmarr May 08, 2008, 04:49:58 AM
The best method, just as far as enjoyment for a couple ;D, IMO, is using breastfeeding for spacing.   Now THAT takes the prize as far as freedoms, no health implications, and nothing to take or do.  Lotsa fun, but not practical for alot of us nowadays.  

Uuummm... except for the fact that I GOT PREGNANT using that "wonderful" method!!!  ;)   ;) 

Yeah, that is a great method if you love babies, lol.  I am going to have 4, ages 4 and under in a few months.  I breastfed all of them.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. Dugger May 08, 2008, 08:08:28 AM
The best method, just as far as enjoyment for a couple ;D, IMO, is using breastfeeding for spacing.   Now THAT takes the prize as far as freedoms, no health implications, and nothing to take or do.  Lotsa fun, but not practical for alot of us nowadays.  

Uuummm... except for the fact that I GOT PREGNANT using that "wonderful" method!!!  ;)   ;) 

Yeah, that is a great method if you love babies, lol.  I am going to have 4, ages 4 and under in a few months.  I breastfed all of them.

lol, me too :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen May 08, 2008, 08:59:39 AM
Nursing works for me........ ;D
23mo- 27mo spacing...... I think anyways.....
: Re: All About Birth Control
: herbs girl May 08, 2008, 10:17:52 AM
Nursing works for me........ ;D
23mo- 27mo spacing...... I think anyways.....

KristinA- Do you try to make sure that your baby nurses like the Lactational Amenorrhea Method, every so many hours day and night, or do you let it fall how it is, and thats how it works for  you?

With my first boy, I suddenly Ovulated because he all of a sudden ate quite a bit of table food starting at 5 months.

My seconed, I didnt get my period back until 15 mos. postpartum because she nursed so much instead of eating table food. We did co-sleeping and she nursed at night for a long time.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen May 08, 2008, 10:23:44 AM
I think the earliest that I ovulated after giving birth was with our first one, when my cycles came back at 11 months.  With the next 5, it was over 18 months each time and our children are 3 to 3 1/2 yrs apart. 

We co-slept, carried baby in sling, no-clock nursing, etc.   DH and I really enjoyed the freedom of using this method.  If our children had come closer together that wouldn't have been a problem, either. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen May 08, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
Nursing works for me........ ;D
23mo- 27mo spacing...... I think anyways.....

KristinA- Do you try to make sure that your baby nurses like the Lactational Amenorrhea Method, every so many hours day and night, or do you let it fall how it is, and thats how it works for  you?


I nurse on demand.....but I have had easy babies who have never had trouble fitting into the family's schedule....
They eat a few times a night, but go right back to sleep after eating (they sleep in our room )..... and don't nurse too frequently during the day. I get my work done.

My little one now nurses about 2 times a night (sometimes 3 sometimes 1), and then whenever during the day. But it generally works out to be a sleep, eat, awake schedule.....but I also sometimes nurse her before naps if she seems hungry or agitated.

I also have REALLY fat babies.  ??? ::)
And don't ever feel too full either......


: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac May 08, 2008, 11:19:50 AM
When I did do this, I didn't give those babies anything but me and did get up at least once per night.  Someone listed Sheila Kipplingers (I think) book a little further up.  That is a good one for all the info about how to do it.

I'm reading that some moms did the same, and even co-slept, did all of it, and still fertility returns very fast.

I would not recommend bfing for spacing unless you and dh are okay with whatever time to get pregnant next just because there does not seem to be a norm.  Everything I've read jut points to women being very different in this regard. :-\
: Re: All About Birth Control
: CountyCork May 08, 2008, 11:50:47 AM
Gotta just say that there are all types of breastfeeding and baby spacing stories!

I nurse on a schedule.  Pretty much from day one.  My babies are nudged to sleep all night by 3 months.  We start solids between 6-8 months.  By then I am nursing 4x per day, never at night.

I have NEVER had a period or ovulation until total weaning.  Then after the last feeding, I get my cycle between 5-7 weeks.  Only one time did I get pg before my cycle started, but it was after weaning.

I don't think schedule or demand, co-sleeping or crib, solids or not, could ever been used as a "for sure" method.  There are too many stories of "surprise", right?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: LKS May 08, 2008, 02:18:14 PM
Every woman is just different. And babies come when God says  ;D

LKS
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain May 08, 2008, 04:15:18 PM
AMEN!!  Both of ours are proof of that... Inspite of our most "responsible" efforts.  ::)  :D He knows best.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 May 09, 2008, 01:55:50 PM
The best way to space babies when nursing is to observe your cervical fluid and cervix. When your CF becomes fertile/cervix is moving to the fertile position, you know that you may ovulate so it would be good to abstain. I think you can baby space with breastfeeding, but only if your watching your fertility signs.

I agree that every woman is different. With my babies I went 13 mths and 11 mths before my cycle returned, but neither will totally weaned until 17 & 18 mths. A friend of mine strictly breastfed and her cycle returned within 1-2 mths after each of her 3 babies :-\. Whataya do? I know, you follow your fertility signs ;D.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain May 09, 2008, 04:19:31 PM
I agree. The only effective method we've found so far (besides sending my husband to Iraq for 18 months!) is the "ovulation method" (observing mucus). July will be one year on this program and no pregnancy! This is a record for us...  ::)

I am one of those "fully-breastfeeding" women whose menstruation returned 1 month after delivery.   :D

: Re: All About Birth Control
: rebeccahuff May 10, 2008, 01:38:41 AM
Has anyone ever used the Lady Comp? I am curious....
http://www.ladycomp.com/ladycomp_en.htm
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WithLoveAndJoy May 10, 2008, 02:49:53 AM
I have, and it works great.  Helped us for nearly a year before we decided to TTC, and then it helped us with that as well.  If used faithfully and the lights are paid attention to, it really is VERY effective.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac May 10, 2008, 05:13:21 AM
We are buying a Ladycomp shortly.  I am going to nurse part time, and I do NOT want to deal with the pressures of determining a basic infertility pattern and having to determine my fertility status at the potty every single time every single day.

I am looking forward to the simplicity of the Ladycomp!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Leilani May 10, 2008, 07:11:17 AM
I think there is a thread on here just about lady-comp. I am planning on getting one here soon too. I usually don't have to worry about that kind of thing till my babies (who wean themselves at 9mo) quit nursing. My sister recently got a babycomp and SHE is pregnant now but she ignored the lights  ;D It also told her she was pregnant. I thought that was cool.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: westernmama May 10, 2008, 08:14:03 AM
IMO, the ladycomp works too good!  ;D 8)  When we were just using NFP, I could fudge it a little and give us an extra day or two.  'Course, that could be why we kept getting "surprises".  ::)  But I love surprises!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Jemima May 21, 2008, 06:06:01 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has testimonials with using the Depo shot, mini pill, or an IUD.  I did search the thread, and didn't find much about any of them.

These are what my dr recommended for me, and as I know pretty much zilch  about birth control options, I'd be interested to hear what you all think about these ones. From what I've researched, all use a synthetic progesterone, and I'm a bit concerned about the effects of that - I can't imagine it's really good for the body, though my dr reassured me that it's safe and doesn't "mess up" your hormones long term.

Thanks for your input!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: WellTellMommy May 21, 2008, 06:28:04 AM
I had depo for med. reasons after a surgery once, it made me gain weight,and I was a Bear the whole time it was in me, But all birth control meds did that to me.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MamaSong May 21, 2008, 06:35:08 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has testimonials with using the Depo shot, mini pill, or an IUD.  I did search the thread, and didn't find much about any of them.

These are what my dr recommended for me, and as I know pretty much zilch  about birth control options, I'd be interested to hear what you all think about these ones. From what I've researched, all use a synthetic progesterone, and I'm a bit concerned about the effects of that - I can't imagine it's really good for the body, though my dr reassured me that it's safe and doesn't "mess up" your hormones long term.

Thanks for your input!

Here's the thread about IUD's:

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,5911.0.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Roehrmomma May 21, 2008, 06:37:39 AM
I had depo for med. reasons after a surgery once, it made me gain weight,and I was a Bear the whole time it was in me, But all birth control meds did that to me.

  I have heard way to many problems depo shot. It would be the LAST choice I would take. It made a friend of mine bleed for 3 mths straight. Then caused her to go through a long time of infertility then miscarriages.

: Re: All About Birth Control
: MamaSong May 21, 2008, 06:44:27 AM
More information on Depo Provera in Reply #137 (on page 5). 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: grocerygetter May 21, 2008, 07:03:08 AM
 Here is a link to the FDA's black box warning placed on the Depo Shot : http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2004/ANS01325.html (http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2004/ANS01325.html)

IMO Depo would be my last choice for birth control also. I have witnessed the "possible" effects of it on my mom first hand. I would suggest you highly research it and the side effects before using it.

I have used the mini pill while when I was postpartum and nursing. While I'm not completely "ok" with it I personally had very few side effects from it. Normally I have many problems taking other forms of b.c. I've tried almost every pill possible, the ring, and the patch.




: Re: All About Birth Control
: Jemima May 21, 2008, 07:54:40 AM
Wow, I'm so glad I asked on here.  Of course I realized that most of these BC choices were not very "natural", but I didn't know that they could potentially cause serious problems, either.

I was thinking the Depo sounded like the best/easiest choice, but now I'm rethinking.  Infertility, prolonged bleeding and miscarriage are not things I want to introduce to my body!

Grocerygetter, your experience w/the mini pill sounds somewhat encouraging.  Did it give you the mood swings mentioned as a possible side effect?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: herbs girl May 21, 2008, 07:56:19 AM
Wow, I'm so glad I asked on here.  Of course I realized that most of these BC choices were not very "natural", but I didn't know that they could potentially cause serious problems, either.

I was thinking the Depo sounded like the best/easiest choice, but now I'm rethinking.  Infertility, prolonged bleeding and miscarriage are not things I want to introduce to my body!

Grocerygetter, your experience w/the mini pill sounds somewhat encouraging.  Did it give you the mood swings mentioned as a possible side effect?

I know from a close relative's expereince with depo, it is a horrible thing to get.  It really messes you up hormonally wise!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jhandrh May 21, 2008, 09:07:46 AM
I have heard nothing good about depo.  a friend of mine had used it a few times and it really messed up her hormones.  She also had difficulty getting pg after stopping it.  Another friend of mine just had a depo shot after the birth of her baby and she says "never again!"  It is causing her to have prolonged bleeding. 
I would not recommend artificial hormones to someone unless there is no other choice.  But IMO, the lesser of the evils is a pill such as Yasmin.  That was the only one i ever had any success with, and I am now trying to get healthier so hopefully i won't need to take that either.  Just my 2 cents.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: grocerygetter May 21, 2008, 09:34:25 AM

Grocerygetter, your experience w/the mini pill sounds somewhat encouraging.  Did it give you the mood swings mentioned as a possible side effect?

As far as bc goes I have had the best experience with the mini pill. My hubby and I have not noticed and mood swings (out of the normal :) J/K) I too realize that be on bc is not ideal. However, given my last pregnancy and the state of my body. We felt it was completely necessary to avoid pregnancy at all costs right now.

The way the mini pill was explained to my was that it was only completely effective if you were also b*feeding. Or are you referring to the mini pill as something else? I'm currently on Camila. I do intend to speak with my new midwife tomorrow about an IUD. I'll keep you posted on that if you wish :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Jemima May 22, 2008, 09:38:04 AM
Thanks for all your input.  It was very enlightening, and made me do even more research.  I don't think we will be using any of these "conventional" methods - they are too scary.  The side effects are too serious (even if they are "rare").  Off to read more about natural family planning...  ;)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild May 22, 2008, 09:43:06 AM
I had a copper iud. Seemed to be the lesser of evils but I would not recommend it.  I had it removed last october and still haven't gotten pregnant. Don't know if it is due to the iud or some other factors.

I just found the website fertilityfriend.com  It teaches you how to chart temps and it looks like a great resource. We did something easier, the billings ovulation method for about a year. It was very simple and only required a back-up method for about one week out of the month. Fertility friend looks like it takes a bit more work than billings but you do get more info. I just signed up and they are emailing me lessons on how to do this.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Rikki May 22, 2008, 11:01:38 AM
I had the Mirena IUD after both pregnancies and would not recommend it.
The good thing was that as soon as it was removed I was able to get pregnant, but it did have side effects. I had no period (you may be thinking "WHooo hooo no period!" but it's not healthy!!) and I had a hormonal imbalance the whole time which led to breakouts and slight facial hair.
 Then after about a year I started to have a sharp pain on my left side, almost where you get menstrual cramps. I didn't even connect that it could be due to my IUD until a few months ago and I started researching. I went to curezone.com and searched Mirena and there were SEVERAL stories of people with side effects, and strangely most everyone who had problems had them on the left side of their body. I knew I had to get mine out! Especially because the pain had almost become unbearable. It was very random pain, no clue when it would come or go - but it got BAD. So I made my appt to get it taken out. It costs $100 to get it taken out if you get it out before 3 yrs, so I planned on that. When I got to the dr. office and explained to my gyno what was going on he told me there was no way that the IUD was causing this pain, and that the pain was probably from some sort of infection and convinced me to test for all the possible kids of infections. He said it could also be a cyst in my ovary, or indimitriosis, either things an  IUD supposedly helps. He said if I got it taken out the pain would more than likely get worse, not better, and there was no proof or record of anyone having pain like I had from the IUD. I told him I wanted it
out anyway but he could still run all of the tests.
 Long story short -- after a bill of $580 :o (all the test he convinced me to do) ALL OF MY TESTS WERE NEGATIVE!! And, over a month later and I have had NO PAIN since having it removed.
  I have no idea why I was having the pain and no clue what it was. But I know it was GONE after having it removed. My skin is clear and hormones are balanced. I am now using the lady comp and will keep everyone posted on my progress! ;)
 

Grocerygetter, your experience w/the mini pill sounds somewhat encouraging.  Did it give you the mood swings mentioned as a possible side effect?

As far as bc goes I have had the best experience with the mini pill. My hubby and I have not noticed and mood swings (out of the normal :) J/K) I too realize that be on bc is not ideal. However, given my last pregnancy and the state of my body. We felt it was completely necessary to avoid pregnancy at all costs right now.

The way the mini pill was explained to my was that it was only completely effective if you were also b*feeding. Or are you referring to the mini pill as something else? I'm currently on Camila. I do intend to speak with my new midwife tomorrow about an IUD. I'll keep you posted on that if you wish :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt June 13, 2008, 06:23:07 AM
I think I may have a latex irratation...hate to call it an allergy since I sleep on a latex bed and don't have a problem...but i can't stand the latex condoms...any thoughts on the polyuethane ones...I also like those cause you can use an oil lube w/ them and we use coconut oil I can't stand KY...any ideas on the polyurathane ones health wise or anything ... do I need to be worried about that kind of plastic being down there, etc?
This conversation has been split and moved here. 

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,18889.0.html

No rules broken, but this thread is getting long and I think it's time to start subdividing.   ;D  I'll probably try to do more organizing of this thread as time allows.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: carolina girl June 13, 2008, 07:40:37 AM
I had the Mirena IUD after both pregnancies and would not recommend it.
The good thing was that as soon as it was removed I was able to get pregnant, but it did have side effects. I had no period (you may be thinking "WHooo hooo no period!" but it's not healthy!!) and I had a hormonal imbalance the whole time which led to breakouts and slight facial hair.
 Then after about a year I started to have a sharp pain on my left side, almost where you get menstrual cramps. I didn't even connect that it could be due to my IUD until a few months ago and I started researching. I went to curezone.com and searched Mirena and there were SEVERAL stories of people with side effects, and strangely most everyone who had problems had them on the left side of their body. I knew I had to get mine out! Especially because the pain had almost become unbearable. It was very random pain, no clue when it would come or go - but it got BAD. So I made my appt to get it taken out. It costs $100 to get it taken out if you get it out before 3 yrs, so I planned on that. When I got to the dr. office and explained to my gyno what was going on he told me there was no way that the IUD was causing this pain, and that the pain was probably from some sort of infection and convinced me to test for all the possible kids of infections. He said it could also be a cyst in my ovary, or indimitriosis, either things an  IUD supposedly helps. He said if I got it taken out the pain would more than likely get worse, not better, and there was no proof or record of anyone having pain like I had from the IUD. I told him I wanted it
out anyway but he could still run all of the tests.
 Long story short -- after a bill of $580 :o (all the test he convinced me to do) ALL OF MY TESTS WERE NEGATIVE!! And, over a month later and I have had NO PAIN since having it removed.
  I have no idea why I was having the pain and no clue what it was. But I know it was GONE after having it removed. My skin is clear and hormones are balanced. I am now using the lady comp and will keep everyone posted on my progress! ;)
 

Grocerygetter, your experience w/the mini pill sounds somewhat encouraging.  Did it give you the mood swings mentioned as a possible side effect?

As far as bc goes I have had the best experience with the mini pill. My hubby and I have not noticed and mood swings (out of the normal :) J/K) I too realize that be on bc is not ideal. However, given my last pregnancy and the state of my body. We felt it was completely necessary to avoid pregnancy at all costs right now.

The way the mini pill was explained to my was that it was only completely effective if you were also b*feeding. Or are you referring to the mini pill as something else? I'm currently on Camila. I do intend to speak with my new midwife tomorrow about an IUD. I'll keep you posted on that if you wish :)

I had a friend who had an IUD put in just about a month after her little one was born.  After a week of having it in, he broke out in horrible acne and she started getting these horrible headaches every afternoon at the same time with Nausea accompanying them.  She started doing some research and found that MANY people have side effects from these things that they say there are no side effects for.  She had it removed and within 3 days - no more headaches - within one week - no more acne on baby.

It's enough to keep me from having one.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: IMPersuadd June 18, 2008, 07:07:53 AM
With an advance apology to HB and others - but I don't have time to read through 17 pages - much of which is personal stories - great to read but not the info I am looking for at this time.

Does anyone have a straight forward list of all the types of birth control including a brief description of each?  The info I am most interested in is knowing which are chemical and which are potentially abortifacient.  Or any other negative side affects.  Just the facts, ma'am.  :-) 

I need to pass this on to a couple without the emotional or spiritual aspects.  I am very ignorant myself which is why I am asking for help.  Thanx alot to whomever may know where to find or have it at their fingertips.  :-)

Lori
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen June 18, 2008, 07:35:48 AM
Four Methods
There are four basic forms of birth control: chemical, barrier, intrauterine devices (IUD), and fertility planning.

1.   Chemical - Two Methods

Oral: Birth control pills which are taken orally.

Injectable: Injections to the woman's body of chemicals which prohibit conception or which prohibit live birth of the conceived child.

2.   Barrier

Examples of barrier methods are condoms, diaphragms, cervical caps, and anti-sperm methods such as sponge, jellies, foams, and creams which impede or delay the sperm in its efforts to reach and fertilize the ovum.

3.   Intrauterine Devices (IUD)

The uterus wall is irritated by a device placed within the uterus making it difficult for the newly conceived child to attach to the lining and thereby begin to receive nourishment.

4.   Fertility Cycle Planning (often called Natural Family Planning):

Avoiding or seeking pregnancy based upon the fertile cycle of the ovum.

How They Work
A.   Chemical (Birth Control Pills, injectable Depo-Provera, and Norplant)

1.   Suppress ovulation. The two ovaries are motivated to not emit ovum (the egg) during its normal monthly time. The combination birth control pill (estrogen and progesterone) fails to prevent release of an egg in 23% to 50% of monthly cycles. The "mini-pill" (progesterone only) and other progestins such as Depo-provera and Norplant, probably have the same ovalation rate over a years time.

2.   Thickens cervical mucus. The mucus within the woman's cervix is thickened. As a result, the sperm have difficulty reaching the ovum (egg) for fertilization. If any sperm are successful in fertilizing the egg to produce a baby, it has difficulty in timely reaching the wall of the womb in order to implant and sustain itself within the normal 4 to 10 days.

3.   Alters uterine lining. The chemicals retard normal build-up of nutriments on the uterine (womb) wall, leaving the newly fertilized egg (baby) without nourishment, causing its death and elimination in the menstrual period.

B.   Barrier

1.   Condoms. A latex "balloon" is placed over the male's penis in an effort to capture all of the sperm on ejaculation.

2.   Diaphragm. A soft latex device placed within the vagina in an effort to seal off access by the male's sperm into the uterus and fallopian tubes.

3.   Cervical cap. A latex cover, or cap is placed over the cervix of the woman in an effort to restrain sperm from reaching the egg. A seldom used method.

4.   Sponge. A sponge is placed in the vagina in an attempt to absorb the sperm before they reach the egg. A seldom used method.

5.   Anti-sperm jellies, foams, and creams. Liquids placed within the vagina in an effort to intercept and kill sperm.

C.   Intrauterine device

Copper coated tubes or other foreign objects are placed in the uterus in order to cause a minor irritation or infection of the uterus wall. The device does nothing to disrupt ovulation, the menstrual cycle, or to thicken the cervical mucus. Sperm reach and fertilize the ovum (egg), but the newly conceived baby is unable to attach to the infected or irritated uterus wall for development. Thus, the baby is flushed out of the woman's body. It is, therefore, not a "barrier" method.

D.   Fertility Cycle Planning, also known as Natural Family Planning (NFP).

There is only a 24 to 72 hour period each month when a woman's egg/ovum is capable of being fertilized. NFP, therefore, is the timing of intercourse based upon the number of days in a woman's monthly menstrual period in an effort to either seek or to avoid pregnancy for that month. Need more information? Try Couple to Couple League. Also, Natural Fertility Regulation in a Nutshell, by Lloyd Duplantis.


Are They Safe?
Some women experience no immediate side effects from birth control devices. Some women, however, do suffer side effects.

Norplant: Lawsuits by approximately 30,000 women injured by Norplant are now pending in a South Texas state court. Source: The Associated Press, August 8, 1997.

"The Pill": "An increased risk of thromboembolic and thrombotic diseases associated with the use of oral contraceptives is well established." PDR 1997, p. 2564.

"Warning: Cigarette smoking increases the risk of serious cardiovascular side effects from oral contraceptive use." PDR 1997, p. 2563.

Depo-Provera: "A significant increase in incidence of polysyndactyly and chromosomal anomalies [birth defects] were observed among infants of DEPO-PROVERA users, the former being most pronounced in women under 30 years of age. . . . Several reports suggest an association between intrauterine exposure to progestational drugs in the first trimester of pregnancy and genital abnormalities in male and female fetuses." PDR 1995, pp. 2543-2546.

"Because no long-term studies have yet examined this question, especially in the case of women under the age of 18, no one knows how often the use of this injection can result in permanent sterilization." "Patient Counseling with DMPA," The Contraception Report, Vol. 6, #5, 11/95.

"In 1990, in Issues in Reproductive Genetic Engineering, Claire D.F. Parsons recorded the following complaints from women who had used Depo-Provera: 'headaches, abdominal discomfort, anxiety and nervousness, adrenal suppression, weight gain, hair loss, decreased libido, mood swings, dizziness, fatigue, allergic reactions and severe mental depression. Such effects cannot be reversed quickly.'" Claire D.F. Parsons, "Drugs, Science, and Ethics: Lessons From the Depo-Provera Story," Issues in Reproductive and Genetics Engineering, Vol. 3, #2, 1990, pp. 101-110.

Intrauterine Devices: "Reports indicate an increased incidence of septic abortion with septicervia, septic shock and death in patients becoming pregnant with an IUD in place" PDR 1997, p. 1936.

Condoms and Diaphragms: They are made of latex. In October of 1997, The Wall Street Journal reported that the Center for Disease Control, Atlanta, Georgia, has concluded that all medical devices (gloves, etc.) made of latex must now be labeled with a warning that latex can cause allergic reaction. More information on this subject can be found at http://www.pals.net

 


Definitions
(AHD = American Heritage Dictionary. PDR = Physician's Desk Reference. WD = Explanation furnished by the publisher, Wonderful Days.)

Abortifacient (a-bort-i-fa-cient): anything used to induce abortion. AHD. It also means preventing the fertilized egg/zygote from being able to implant into the uterine wall and grow to maturity, WD.

Anti-implantational: A drug or device serving to prevent the fertilized egg (zygote) from implanting on the wall of the uterus in order to obtain nourishment, WD.

Barrier methods and devices: Condoms, diaphragms, cervical caps, and anti-sperm methods such as the sponge, jellies, foams, and creams which prevent sperm from reaching and fertilizing an egg, WD.

Breakthrough Ovulation: An egg emitting from the ovary despite the fact the ovary had been motivated, by birth control drugs, not to emit an egg, WD.

Conception: The formation of a zygote...an embryo..., a beginning capable of survival and maturation in normal conditions, AHD.

Contraception: Prevention of conception, capable of preventing conception, WD.

Contraceptive birth control: Preventing birth by preventing the sperm from fertilizing the ovum, thus forming a baby, WD.

Ectopic Pregnancy: An improper, death-threatening pregnancy in the fallopian tubes rather than in the womb, WD.

Endometrium: The lining of the uterus, AHD.

Estrogen: Any of several steroid hormones produced chiefly by the ovary and responsible for promoting estra and the development and maintenance of female secondary sex characteristics, AHD.

Fertilization: The process in which two gametes unite to form a zygote, AHD.

Gamete: A cell possessing chromosomes; a mature sperm or egg capable of participating in fertilization. [Note: the Greek word gamete means wife, the Greek word gametes means husband, and the Greek word gamos means marriage. ] AHD.

Hormone: A substance formed by one organ and conveyed, as by the bloodstream, to another, which it stimulates to function by means of its chemical activity, AHD.

"Mini-Pills": A birth control pill which contains only progesterone. Regular birth control pills contain progesterone and estrogen, WD.

Ovulation: The release of an egg from the ovary.

"The Pill": One of over 40 chemical pills taken orally to prevent birth by (1) suppressing ovulation, (2) preventing sperm reaching the egg by thickening the mucus, and (3) making the uterus (endometrium) unable to receive and nourish the fertilized egg (baby), WD.

Progesterone: A female hormone secreted by the corpus luteum of the ovary prior to implantation of the fertilized egg, AHD.

Zygote: The cell formed by the union of two gametes. The organism that develops from such a cell as characterized by its genetic constitution and subsequent development, AHD.

http://www.days.org/birthcontrol.html#1
: Re: All About Birth Control
: IMPersuadd June 18, 2008, 09:47:16 AM
Thanx so much KristenA!  :-)  Exactly what I was looking for. 

So my understanding briefly is that chemical and IUD forms definitely are not healthy and potentially abortifacient.  Barrier seems to be a "mixed bag" as obviously some of those methods contain ingredients that would be unhealthy.  And NFP is self-explanatory.

Thanx again.  Lori
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen June 18, 2008, 10:14:54 AM
So my understanding briefly is that chemical and IUD forms definitely are not healthy and potentially abortifacient. 

Chemical/hormonal BC can be abortifacient.
IUD is ALWAYS abortifacient.... unless it is coupled with a chemical component (i.e. Mirena) that makes is less potentially abortifacient (supposed to make you ovulate less.....).
: Re: All About Birth Control
: TJ June 30, 2008, 02:11:03 AM
Has anyone every heard of or used the creighton model as a form a natural family planning?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: SarahK June 30, 2008, 04:22:32 AM
Has anyone every heard of or used the creighton model as a form a natural family planning?

Yes.  We used it to avoid conception after the birth of our first and for a while after the birth of our second.  It was effective, but we chose to discontinue it.

http://www.creightonmodel.com/ (http://www.creightonmodel.com/)

: Re: All About Birth Control
: MommyGus June 30, 2008, 11:00:10 AM
Has anyone every heard of or used the creighton model as a form a natural family planning?

Yes.  We used it to avoid conception after the birth of our first and for a while after the birth of our second.  It was effective, but we chose to discontinue it.

http://www.creightonmodel.com/ (http://www.creightonmodel.com/)



How does this compare to "Love and Fertility" by Family of the Americas?  If I am not being too personal SarahK, why did you decide to stop using it was it difficult to do?
MommyGus
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac June 30, 2008, 11:10:24 AM
Has anyone every heard of or used the creighton model as a form a natural family planning?

Yes.  We used it to avoid conception after the birth of our first and for a while after the birth of our second.  It was effective, but we chose to discontinue it.

http://www.creightonmodel.com/ (http://www.creightonmodel.com/)



How does this compare to "Love and Fertility" by Family of the Americas?  If I am not being too personal SarahK, why did you decide to stop using it was it difficult to do?
MommyGus

Hope you don't mind my opinion--Creighton model may be more effective, IMO, than Love & Fertility.  Unless you go on ahead and call one of the counselours from the list they send to you with the book.  I do not believe the book gives near enough detail about the proper way to wipe and distinguish mucus signs, the feel of each wipe, etc.

I used Love & Fertility for a short time before we conceived #10.  We needed some space after a miscarriage to make sure my body was straightened back out.  I was glad that I had already had a counselour train me in the Creighton Model years earlier.  We discontinued the use of the Creighton Model and used breastfeeding only for spacing for quite a while after our training.

HTH,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: SarahK June 30, 2008, 12:20:30 PM
How does this compare to "Love and Fertility" by Family of the Americas?
MommyGus

Cecac answers this one best I think - I had not heard of the "Love & Fertility" method.

If I am not being too personal SarahK, why did you decide to stop using it was it difficult to do?
MommyGus

No, it was not too difficult.  From our instruction/materials, it may be a bit longer to figure out if you have a continuous mucous pattern, but it seems to be comprehensive and well taught by the folks we met.

Sarah K
: Re: All About Birth Control
: SC June 30, 2008, 06:57:52 PM
Just got my hands on a copy of a REALLY good book called
Honoring Our Cycles, A Natural Family Planning Workbook
(For Knowing Which Days You Can and Can't Get Pregnant)
by Katie Singer
(a Companion Book to Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions)
ISBN 0-9670897-6-X
Easy to read charts, clear illustrations, includes sections on fertility awareness while breastfeeding, spacing, feeding, different methods, thyroid gland, night lighting, and the effects of nutrition/foods as well as blank charts. . .
All in about 100 pages. GREAT resource!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: chrysalyde July 12, 2008, 03:10:43 AM

Chemical/hormonal BC can be abortifacient.
IUD is ALWAYS abortifacient.... unless it is coupled with a chemical component (i.e. Mirena) that makes is less potentially abortifacient (supposed to make you ovulate less.....).

Hi,
I just came accross this article : http://www.aaplog.org/decook.htm
It seems to say that hormonal birth control does not have an effect on the lining of the endometrium. What do you think about these explanations ?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hi_itsgwen July 12, 2008, 03:45:02 AM
A friend of mine didn't believe that chemical birth control had an affect on the uterine lining.  But she learned otherwise in pharmeceutical school. 

Personally, I will never be able to trust 'studies' quoted by my doctor.  I learned this the hard way when I got pregnant and miscarried with an IUD properly in place for over a year.  My doc had told me that the IUD was over 99% effective if in place for over a year, and the next best thing to abstinenece.  It occurred to me later that the birth control companies probably pay for the studies to 'help' the doctors promote their products.

I've had 2 midwives tell me that condoms are way more effective than 'studies' show, because the studies factor in all the people who claim to have used a condom (read pregnant teens) and those who don't use them correctly (teens).

My hubby told me early on that he didn't want me on any chemical hormones, and chose to use barrier (condoms).  We've used this method for 14 years with no problems or 'oop's'-es.  And believe me when I say that we are very very fertile.  We've tried to get pregnant 3 times, and were successful at first ovulation every time.  Since this method works so well for us, I've never tried another.  I like it that my man makes the decisions about when he wants another child and mucus surveilance is just not my thing :)

Sorry for tmi, but I just think personal experience in important issues like this is as valuable as 'studies'. :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac July 12, 2008, 08:16:50 AM

Chemical/hormonal BC can be abortifacient.
IUD is ALWAYS abortifacient.... unless it is coupled with a chemical component (i.e. Mirena) that makes is less potentially abortifacient (supposed to make you ovulate less.....).

Hi,
I just came accross this article : http://www.aaplog.org/decook.htm
It seems to say that hormonal birth control does not have an effect on the lining of the endometrium. What do you think about these explanations ?

I am printing the article to read.  I did read the first of it. I have a few thoughts from my first perusal. 

Even if the first two points are the only ones available, the BCP's  have still altered cervical mucus and raised a woman's horomone levels.

Anything that requires the body to come out of balance is something that must be considered very carefully.  BCP's can have some positive affects for a woman occasionally, and I do understand the decision to use them for a time if they will contribute to the ongoing health of the woman.  However, I don't believe that could be said for the majority of cases where the BCP is used to simply avoid pregnancy.  I believe there are healthier options for the woman to use, much healthier options. 

I will read the rest as time allows, and comment if I have anything more to add.

Blessings,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: starryiz July 15, 2008, 03:32:24 PM
I need some advice on birth control.  I have a 3 year old and a 10 month old.  My husband does not any more children for at least 2-3 more years, and I agree.  My pregnancies were difficult, even though my labors were easy, and I had post-partum depression with my last baby.  I am still nursing and have not had a period yet.  I did not get a period after my first baby until he completely weaned at 16 months.  I plan to nurse this baby until she is 2 or until she weans herself.  So I may not have a period for that long.

I used NFP to get pregnant with my 2nd baby, so I am familiar with it.  However, my cycles have always been very sporadic.  In fact, the cycle I got pregnant I thought I had totally missed my ovulation day, only to find out about five days after I actually ovulated, that I had ovulated on a day different than my chart originally indicated (I used online fertility friend).  So had I been using it to prevent pregnancy, I would have messed up! 

Right now we are using condoms, but my husband does not like them and wants to find another method.  I am scared of pills and iuds, they all have bad side effects.  I have an rx for diaphragm, but havent had it filled yet since I already know I'm allergic to condoms with spermicides.  It makes sense I'd be allergic to the spermicides you have to use with a diaphragm as well.

My question is, can NFP work with sporadic cycles and not having periods while nursing?  And how does it work in those situations?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen July 15, 2008, 03:43:27 PM
It makes sense I'd be allergic to the spermicides you have to use with a diaphragm as well.

You don't have to use spermicides with diaphragms. Sounds like a diaphragm would be a good option for you since it is SO hard to NFP if you haven't had a cycle yet.  :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: chrissyjoymom July 15, 2008, 03:58:17 PM
NFPing w/o a cycle is VERY hard imo. My temps are always all over the board and I have NO way of knowing what is going on. You can use the position of your cervix and cervical mucous as an indicator although depending on how fertile you are and if you ovulate before you get your period back (I normally do) it might be too late (sperm can live up to 9 days from my understanding)  It kinda depends on how fertile you are and how problematic an unexpected blessing might be. :) Have you tried other kinds of condoms (w/o latex, non-latex - polyurethane, polyisiprene, lambskin, etc. They also say different brands are better and worse for each person...there is a thread on condoms on here. Just a thought.)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: starryiz July 15, 2008, 04:05:54 PM
My doctor said that I had to use spermicide with the diaphragm, and everything I've read said is only about 85% effective if you dont use the spermicide. 

We've tried many brands of condoms, even non-latex ones.  I'm not allergic to latex, I am just very sensitive.  Every time we use a condom, I have lots of discharge, itching, and burning for 2-3 days afterwards.  And in order to satisfy my husband, that'd mean I'd never stop itching and burning!

The NFP is confusing without a cycle.  I am having very mixed fertility signs right now...days of lots of fertlie like CM, days of nothing etc.  So far no period.  While I'd never be upset about having a baby, my husband definately does not want more babies right now, and I agree.  I'm wore out and tired as it is.

I guess our only option then is to use either condoms or diaphragm, and itch and burn, until I get a cycle back and can do NFP more easily.  I've b
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hi_itsgwen July 15, 2008, 04:15:30 PM
Maybe you could try the coconut oil to give a bit of a barrier to the laytex?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie July 15, 2008, 04:23:22 PM
unfortunately coconut oil will break down the latex or polyisiprene condom.  You can use coconut oil w/ polyurethane condoms but none of those come w/o lube from what I can tell. I'm guessing you're allergic to something in the lube on the condoms....you've tried non lubricated and than tried different kinds of lubes ??? and when you say your CM changes are you checking it at your cervix or are you just talking in general ... your reaction to the condom/lube may be causing confusing signs?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: queentea July 16, 2008, 04:36:18 AM
It makes sense I'd be allergic to the spermicides you have to use with a diaphragm as well.

You don't have to use spermicides with diaphragms. Sounds like a diaphragm would be a good option for you since it is SO hard to NFP if you haven't had a cycle yet.  :)

I got pregnant with #2 using a diaphragm with no spermicide...so beware. I am very fertile though, got pregnant with 2 other birth control methods.  So glad I did though!!!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen July 16, 2008, 05:04:05 AM
My doctor said that I had to use spermicide with the diaphragm, and everything I've read said is only about 85% effective if you dont use the spermicide.

85% are pretty good odds. I thought we were talking about what to do in the meantime before you start cycling again. If you are using a diaphragm with 85% effectivness AND you are nursing (some protection there) AND then you start marking your fertility (NFP) and use a diaphragm if you want too.... Then I think that is a good amount of coverage and all without using abortifacent methods.  :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 16, 2008, 01:23:51 PM
I agree that NFP can be difficult when you haven't returned to your cycle yet, but it isn't THAT bad. The hardest time for me was the first 3 or 4 months post after my babies were born. After that it was.... well, not cake, but much easier. Here's what I suggest:

   DON'T take your temp; it won't show you anything until after you've ovulated and you're not ovulating now, so it won't tell you anything. It only becomes one more thing to do.

   DO pay attention to you cervical fluid every day. If it becomes more fertile, abstain. This can be the most frustrating part b/c you're paranoid and wondering, "Is this fertile? Honey, let's not, just in case." And that adds to more stress. But, this was key for me....

   DO check your cervix every day, at about the same time of day; afternoon naps perhaps (just a time marker to remind you). It will always be somewhat open if you have delivered vaginally. But, checking every day will cause you to be very aware of what the non-fertile position is so that when you do become fertile, even if there isn't much fluid, your cervix will be SHOWing you that are approaching ovulation and you should abstain. (SHOW reminds you that fertile is Soft High Open & Wet. This is what your cervix will resemble when you are fertile.)

   DO keep your own chart and don't rely on a computer. You know your body better than any computer. You can print charts off here (http://www.tcoyf.com/library/chartpdf.asp). Just pick the one you want. I suggest the basic BC Farn chart (http://www.tcoyf.com/library/pdf/bc_fahr.pdf).

My husband and I used this and, I would be lying if I told you that it wasn't difficult. But, again, that was the first 3 or 4 months that were the hardest. After that, my body got in the nursing groove and hormones had pretty much smoothed out so I wasn't dealing with a lot of fluid issues (I kept having fluid one day and none the next in the early months. Stressed me out!) So, we used this and didn't get preg after either child. DS is oldest and DD was planned. (We're very fertile as well; both were conceived on a first try using NFP.) I'm still not prego and she'll be 3 in Nov.

HTH. Please don't be discouraged to use NFP. If you've used it before, you're ahead of the game. I hope you find something that's best suited to your family.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac July 16, 2008, 02:56:29 PM
I did not rely on NFP without a counselor during breastfeeding.   If you really, really don't feel it is good to get pregnant right now, then it might affect you mentally to do that on your own.  Fear in the bedroom isn't very fun.

Have you looked into the Ladycomp?  There's a thread here on it.  With it, you could use condoms on yellow/red light days and you could rely on it to where you wouldn't have to use anything on green light days.

Although, I'm not sure how well it will do picking up the very first ovulation during the breastfeeding time.  I just got mine and am still getting yellow lights (cautions).  I am breastfeeding my 8 week old son partially, so I should be getting a better understanding on what it will do very soon.  That is because I should begin to menustrate very soon since I'm only partially breastfeeding.

Just some thoughts,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: pljammie July 16, 2008, 03:08:40 PM
Is there a good book on NFP or do you have to take a class...the only people I know who use it took classes.

Jammie
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac July 16, 2008, 03:15:36 PM
Is there a good book on NFP or do you have to take a class...the only people I know who use it took classes.

Jammie

The classes I took were for the Creighton Model.  I've also got the book Love & Fertility.  They send you a list of counselors in your state.  I used it with no counselor.  However, I wasn't breastfeeding at the time and I thought then that I was glad I had had training with the Creighton Model prior to getting the book.  I do not feel there is enough instruction in observation of mucus to avoid pregnancy, or even achieve pregnancy if you are having weak mucus symptoms around ovulation.

HTH,
Cara
: Re: All About Birth Control
: kcb July 16, 2008, 03:20:03 PM
The Couple To Couple League is a Catholic ministry that teaches NFP.  They will sell their materials as a "home study course" if you can't take the class.  I think mine was $70 and included a BIG book, charts, thermometer, and access to having your charts analyzed and questions answered.  

The home study worked for me -- but I tend to have very clear signs.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie July 16, 2008, 03:45:48 PM
Taking Charge of Your Fertility is a good book. I also took a class before I got married and the lady gave me a "package" w/ a thermomator, book, charts, etc like KCB said I loaned the book out and don't know what it was called now. But I'm assuming its the one that comes wl/ the home study course and it was pretty good!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 16, 2008, 06:18:16 PM
Is there a good book on NFP or do you have to take a class...the only people I know who use it took classes.

Jammie

My husband and I took a class at a Catholic hospital in our area. (Check that out in your area if you are looking for a class.) It was the $70 + reading material and thermo deal as well. I also got the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. That book was a life saver; I didn't understand all the information in the class and the book set me straight on a lot of stuff. The book covers lots of things and gives tons of info.

Re: Cecac's post
      I forgot to mention the lady comp and I was going to. Oops! I've never tried it, but I've followed the thread on it and it seems a lot of gals love it and that it works really well for them. If I wasn't already comfortable with NFP and had the finances, I'm sure I would go that route. And I agree that fear in the bedroom is not good :-[. I dealt with that too in the first few months. But it got better. I guess in my post I was trying to encourage Starryiz that NFP can be done and it doesn't have to be so scary; maybe just have some questions answered.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Peg4Jesus7 July 16, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
After my second daughter, I was still very young and didn't know I could make my own disicions I got an IUD when my lovely dr suggested it. BAD mistake.

I'm VERY curious, why was this a bad mistake?  We are considering the IUD now that we've had our fourth (and most likely final) child.  I don't want to use something chemical, neither of us can quite take that step of doing something permanent, and yet can't take the thought of making a mistake w/NFP and ending up pregnant.

Any advice on the IUD is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peg
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lewisquiverfull July 17, 2008, 02:00:13 AM
After my second daughter, I was still very young and didn't know I could make my own disicions I got an IUD when my lovely dr suggested it. BAD mistake.

I'm VERY curious, why was this a bad mistake?  We are considering the IUD now that we've had our fourth (and most likely final) child.  I don't want to use something chemical, neither of us can quite take that step of doing something permanent, and yet can't take the thought of making a mistake w/NFP and ending up pregnant.

Any advice on the IUD is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peg

From my personal experience using the IUD, I bled about twice as much every month (not sure if the device was aborting, or if it just affected me this way) (from our opinion conception starts in the fallopian tubes and the iud doesn't work until the fertilized egg is into the uterus). I lost over 30 pounds, and got down to weighing 95 lbs. from losing so much blood every month. I had severe pain in my hips, looking back I am wondering if that was my bodies reaction to being allergic. (I have since found many other allergies) My husband and I loved the idea of no birth control, but my health was being robbed away from me, and I could not further keep it. I had it for about 3 years.
This is just my experience, I am sure there are some ladies that have no problems with them, but I would never recommend them to anyone.

If you have any other questions, pm me!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen July 17, 2008, 03:27:47 AM
After my second daughter, I was still very young and didn't know I could make my own disicions I got an IUD when my lovely dr suggested it. BAD mistake.

I'm VERY curious, why was this a bad mistake?  We are considering the IUD now that we've had our fourth (and most likely final) child.  I don't want to use something chemical, neither of us can quite take that step of doing something permanent, and yet can't take the thought of making a mistake w/NFP and ending up pregnant.

Any advice on the IUD is appreciated.

Thanks,
Peg
While the IUD seems easy and non-complicated..... The medical community doesn't know exactly how the non-hormone IUD works.... except that it doesn't allow the embryo to implant in the endometrium.
They were pulled from the market in the US back in the 90s for causing some serious health problems.
You'll just have to research it. The "regular IUD" (one without hormones to cause you to not ovulate) is, IMO the most abortifacent birth control method on the market. It allows you to ovulate and concieve..... It just does not allow the baby to stay. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cecac July 17, 2008, 04:39:55 AM
Is there a good book on NFP or do you have to take a class...the only people I know who use it took classes.

Jammie

My husband and I took a class at a Catholic hospital in our area. (Check that out in your area if you are looking for a class.) It was the $70 + reading material and thermo deal as well. I also got the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. That book was a life saver; I didn't understand all the information in the class and the book set me straight on a lot of stuff. The book covers lots of things and gives tons of info.

Re: Cecac's post
      I forgot to mention the lady comp and I was going to. Oops! I've never tried it, but I've followed the thread on it and it seems a lot of gals love it and that it works really well for them. If I wasn't already comfortable with NFP and had the finances, I'm sure I would go that route. And I agree that fear in the bedroom is not good :-[. I dealt with that too in the first few months. But it got better. I guess in my post I was trying to encourage Starryiz that NFP can be done and it doesn't have to be so scary; maybe just have some questions answered.

Ya know, you could use a condom while you're learning NFP and then once you get more ahold of it you could venture off to no condom, right?

We never did that, the Creighton Model as well as Love & Fertility (If my ever failing memory serves me correctly) tell you it isn't good to mix BC methods like that.  From the Creighton Model point of view it had to do with messing up cervical mucus. 

But anyway, there's a thought.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Peg4Jesus7 July 17, 2008, 05:25:00 AM
Thank you, lewisquiverfull and KristenA!

I certainly will do more research on this.  I definitely don't want to use an abortifacient, nor do I want health issues from it.  It sounds worse than the Pill.  Sorry to hear about your experience, lewisquiverfull   :(

I'll go back and finish reading this thread ....

-Peg
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Peg4Jesus7 July 17, 2008, 05:54:47 AM
My 28 year old girlfriend was just told by her Dr.. three weeks ago that she is pre-menopausal, probably bc she got her tubes tied!

She told me how a man's chances of developing prostate cancer increases dramatically after getting snipped and that out of the three other men in her family that have had the procedure done, those statistics are apparently VERY accurate. Only 3 years after her uncle had it done, he was going in for radiation. And secondly, among her friends whose husbands have had it done, they complain that their husbands have lost interest. In my opinion, I think it is more mental than physical for a man, but what do I know? I think many men may feel less manly.

I find this very interesting, because one of the reasons we have decided not to do anything permanent, is the question of what happens to all the hormones/sperm/eggs after surgery (male or female)?  Are they just floating around with nowhere to go?  Or does your body stop producing them?

I seem to remember that Bill Gothard/Institute for Basic Life Principles has an article (somewhere, I forget where I came across it) that says those surgeries are risky/questionable, for that reason and probably other reasons.  I'm very hazy on it, I'd have to do more research.

Any thoughts?

-Peg
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie July 17, 2008, 06:05:16 AM
I'm pretty sure there are threads dedicated totally to 1-tubal litigations and 2-vasectomies. Those would probably have more in depth info for you...but yes, I think there are definately risks involved IMO.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MommyGus July 17, 2008, 06:33:46 AM
We have always wondered the same thing.  It just doesn't make sense to us to take a perfectly good, healthy, functioning body part, and then wreck it w/o having some consequences.
just my opinion
Mommygus
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 17, 2008, 07:33:03 AM
My 28 year old girlfriend was just told by her Dr.. three weeks ago that she is pre-menopausal, probably bc she got her tubes tied!

She told me how a man's chances of developing prostate cancer increases dramatically after getting snipped and that out of the three other men in her family that have had the procedure done, those statistics are apparently VERY accurate. Only 3 years after her uncle had it done, he was going in for radiation. And secondly, among her friends whose husbands have had it done, they complain that their husbands have lost interest. In my opinion, I think it is more mental than physical for a man, but what do I know? I think many men may feel less manly.

I find this very interesting, because one of the reasons we have decided not to do anything permanent, is the question of what happens to all the hormones/sperm/eggs after surgery (male or female)?  Are they just floating around with nowhere to go?  Or does your body stop producing them?

I seem to remember that Bill Gothard/Institute for Basic Life Principles has an article (somewhere, I forget where I came across it) that says those surgeries are risky/questionable, for that reason and probably other reasons.  I'm very hazy on it, I'd have to do more research.

Any thoughts?

-Peg

I remember in my NFP class they discussed these procedures and talked about the risks. The prostate cancer was something they mentioned. As far as the sperm, it's still being produced and seeps out into other places in the body. Not where they were meant to be.... not good. That's about all I can remember from 6 yrs ago ::).
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 July 17, 2008, 07:43:35 AM
Is there a good book on NFP or do you have to take a class...the only people I know who use it took classes.

Jammie

My husband and I took a class at a Catholic hospital in our area. (Check that out in your area if you are looking for a class.) It was the $70 + reading material and thermo deal as well. I also got the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. That book was a life saver; I didn't understand all the information in the class and the book set me straight on a lot of stuff. The book covers lots of things and gives tons of info.

Re: Cecac's post
      I forgot to mention the lady comp and I was going to. Oops! I've never tried it, but I've followed the thread on it and it seems a lot of gals love it and that it works really well for them. If I wasn't already comfortable with NFP and had the finances, I'm sure I would go that route. And I agree that fear in the bedroom is not good :-[. I dealt with that too in the first few months. But it got better. I guess in my post I was trying to encourage Starryiz that NFP can be done and it doesn't have to be so scary; maybe just have some questions answered.

Ya know, you could use a condom while you're learning NFP and then once you get more ahold of it you could venture off to no condom, right?

We never did that, the Creighton Model as well as Love & Fertility (If my ever failing memory serves me correctly) tell you it isn't good to mix BC methods like that.  From the Creighton Model point of view it had to do with messing up cervical mucus. 

But anyway, there's a thought.

In our NFP class they stressed that as well; not using barrier methods along with NFP. They said that if you were using barrier methods you couldn't claim to be practicing NFP b/c it's the only way they can claim 99% efficacy. Meaning that if you're using a barrier method during fertile times and it fails, it's not NFP that failed, but the barrier. That messes with their statistics.

If you use barrier methods along side observing your fertility it's called Fertility Awareness Method (FAM), which is what Taking Charge of Your Fertility (TCOYF) teaches.  I think that's a viable option. I don't think it would be bad to mix dry condoms (no spermicide) with FAM. I can see the pill or spermicides or something like that messing with your cervical fluid. We did use dry condoms when we were unsure and it did help to relieve some of the anxiety when I just wasn't sure. Then we got to the point when we didn't need them at all, I think even before my cycle returned, but I'm not sure ::).
: Re: All About Birth Control
: chrysalyde August 20, 2008, 12:29:51 AM
How long does sperm live ? I've read three different numbers on WTM : 3 days, 5 days, 9 days... that makes a big difference ! I'd appreciate it if anyone knew the right answer with perhaps the source. Thanks !
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie August 20, 2008, 04:14:49 AM
i think the book # is 3-5, but I've seen charts in my old NFP book that I can't remember the name of and sperm lived up to 9 days! So I always say for me it would be 9!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: miff aka Missi August 20, 2008, 04:20:09 AM
How long does sperm live ? I've read three different numbers on WTM : 3 days, 5 days, 9 days... that makes a big difference ! I'd appreciate it if anyone knew the right answer with perhaps the source. Thanks !
This site
http://www.early-pregnancy-tests.com/studies.html

says- In most cases, sperm can survive in the womb for just a few days. Under optimum circumstances, and with optimum sperm health, a few sperm can live up to about five days, but that is rare.

And this one
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pregnancy/AN00281

says- Answer
The life span of sperm after they're ejaculated depends on the environmental conditions. Sperm ejaculated into a woman's vagina remain alive in the mucus of the cervix and are able to fertilize an egg for three to five days. Sperm ejaculated outside the body usually live only a few hours.


This is what I have always heard also.

Hope this helps.

Missi
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie August 20, 2008, 06:19:12 AM
http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/sperm+live-dead+ratio 2-9 days

: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 August 21, 2008, 09:01:01 AM
i think the book # is 3-5, but I've seen charts in my old NFP book that I can't remember the name of and sperm lived up to 9 days! So I always say for me it would be 9!

Yeah, if you need to be very careful, I would go with 9 days. But, it's important to remember that they can only survive that long in fertile quality cervical fluid. If you're "dry" they won't last very long. Just like it said above about being in the woman's body or outside of it. It won't last too much longer inside the woman's body than on the ground if she doesn't have that fertile cervical fluid. Her body is actually a hostile environment in non-fertile conditions.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: chrysalyde August 24, 2008, 10:23:19 PM
Ok, now how long does the ovum live ? I thought 24 hours... and to be sure abstain 48 hours after ovulation. We abstained 8-9 days before ovulation and 36 to 60 hours after (I'm not sure because I missed a day taking my temp) and somehow I'm pregnant...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: cjanderin August 24, 2008, 10:55:35 PM
Ok, now how long does the ovum live ? I thought 24 hours... and to be sure abstain 48 hours after ovulation. We abstained 8-9 days before ovulation and 36 to 60 hours after (I'm not sure because I missed a day taking my temp) and somehow I'm pregnant...

I always thought it was the other way around - abstain for 4 days before and 7 days afterwards (ie. the longer time is after ovulation).  Of course, if you ovulate at a completely different time to when you always ovulate then it's all going to be wrong isn't it!  That's why our #5 is arriving in January  :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: blessedmama August 25, 2008, 08:43:57 AM
I got pregnant with #3 five days after ovulation and I said "it's safe", well he sure has turned out to be a wonderful blessing and wouldn't trade him.  I was just wanting the "romantic we're making a baby" ombiance to go with it.  Not "it's ok".  Oh well wouldn't change a thing. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 August 25, 2008, 08:49:16 AM
Ok, now how long does the ovum live ? I thought 24 hours... and to be sure abstain 48 hours after ovulation. We abstained 8-9 days before ovulation and 36 to 60 hours after (I'm not sure because I missed a day taking my temp) and somehow I'm pregnant...

My "book knowledge" tells me that it stays alive for 6-24 hrs. By the book abstaining would look like this:
    Cervical fluid = wet - egg white --- abstain
    Cervix = soft, high, open & wet --- abstain
    3 day of temps at least .2 of a degree higher than past 6 days highest temp --- you may resume intercourse.
You may be prego b/c you missed taking that day's temp and you hadn't actually ovulated as soon as you thought. Or, it could just be that you're prego b/c God wants to bless you with another child ;). I know that NFP boasts their 99% efficacy rate leaving that last 1% to the hand of God.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain August 27, 2008, 05:59:01 PM
Just wanted to report that we've passed the one-year mark of success with the Ovulation Method of birth control. You need to know how significant this is, since I am known around these parts as "Fertile Myrtle". (Both of our kids were conceived with condoms!)

My husband likes this method too because it allows for less "interference" by barrier methods and he feels like he is an active part in our family planning.

I love it because I finally feel like I "know" my body. I used a sticker chart for the full year to be sure I could "read" myself correctly, but now I am just keeping track on a calendar. For reference...it took me about 6 months to feel confident in identifying my cervical mucus stages, but I am very irregular.

I will also add that two of my lady friends used this method to try to get pregnant and they've told me it worked very well (they're both pregnant!  :D ).

For more information:
http://familyplanning.net/

The initial cost of the book and sticker chart was much less than the cost of other contraceptive methods during the fertile years of marriage. The benefit of understanding how God designed my body to work: priceless.

kate  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Aura September 01, 2008, 12:09:59 PM
I did read through the first few and last few pages of this topic, but I admit I didn't read all 19 pages of it :o so please forgive me if this has been posted.

I am still nursing (ds is 7 mos) and I've had a cycle fairly regularly since 6 wk pp. In the past, we've used dry condoms with much success at preventing pregnancy. However, I am really tired of it and so is hubby, not to mention that I seem to be more sensitive to them after this last pregnancy and things just "aren't right" with them. We tried NFP before and that's how my 7 mos ds got here--I had just stopped nursing when I got pregnant and I don't think my cycles were regular enough then and I think that's the case now as well.

What other options do I have besides condoms and snipping? What about the neem oil? Any updates on that?

Maybe I don't understand NFP enough (We didn't do that much research, just followed the dr's suggestion)...will that work even if you're not regular?

Thanks,
Aura
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mhoward1999 September 01, 2008, 12:20:06 PM
Hi Aura,
I would suggest getting your hands on the book, "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" by Toni Weschler, MPH. You can use this method to prevent or to TTC. The book teaches you to understand your body, how it works, and how to understand your body's fertility signs. I charted for three years using her method, which includes a minimum of taking basal body temperature, cervical position, and cervial mucous data.  I got to the point where I didn't feel I needed to chart, I was so in tune that I could just tell what my body was doing on a given day. Now, if I were using it for prevention, I would definitely go back to charting. HTH!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Aura September 02, 2008, 11:47:19 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, and I would love to read this, but money is tight right now and I don't want to buy a book only to find out it doesn't apply to me since I'm nursing and my cycles are not regular. Will this method still work in spite of this?

: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain September 02, 2008, 12:13:02 PM
Maybe I don't understand NFP enough (We didn't do that much research, just followed the dr's suggestion)...will that work even if you're not regular?

Here's my opinion (and story)...

When my husband and I were first married, we did what we *thought* was NFP. You know, the "count 14 days after your period...that's about when you ovulate...yada, yada, yada...". We have two kids now. :D

Then when I was reading a No Greater Joy article, Debi Pearl mentioned this "Ovulation Method" of birth control, so I checked it out. My husband and I talked it over and decided that it couldn't hurt to try it, since condoms had failed us already and we weren't comfortable with birth control pills.

I ordered the Love and Fertility book and chart from Family of the Americas and began to implement the process immediately. I am very irregular, so it took me a good six months to really feel confident in the system. A big difficulty was "identifying" my current stage from the mucus. I often would confuse one type for another and had to reference the photos in the book. Also, I had difficulty knowing the difference between drainage after marital relations and the first stage of fertility beginning (solved by recording specific observations about drainage after each time, then comparing with regular mucus).

Things that helped me:
1. In the book it says to record your "most fertile sign" for the day. It took me a while to get this. Some days I would have what seemed like 3 different types of mucus. Which one should I record?! Record your MOST fertile sign. Even if it wasn't the last type you saw before going to bed.

2. Record EVERYTHING for several months. This helped me to know what is "normal" for me. I recorded how I felt that day, significant events (went camping, exercised, death in the family...) that might have affected my cycle, my own descriptions of mucus ("rubber cement, snot!"), etc. Now when I see what the book might describe as something else, I know, "Aha! Rubber cement means such-and-such."

3. Read the whole book. Once you read it, it makes SO much sense. I kept thinking, "Of course! This is so simple! Why doesn't everyone know this? Why didn't I  know this?!" It really is simple. When you are attentive and observe your body's symptoms (mainly the mucus) you can know your fertility stage at a glance. I do it now without charting.

As for the irregularity of cycles, this method is ideal! Because you are observing your mucus, and it directly correlates to a stage of fertility, you can see patterns. "Okay, so I've had no mucus today...not fertile!" "Well, I had a thick mucus today...maybe fertile...wait three days to see if it progresses...nope back to dry, not fertile." "Wet again...wait three days...okay, this looks like it's progressing each day, I'm probably fertile!" The book talks specifically about fertility during nursing too. Very helpful!

Final note: there are many ladies on WTM who would encourage you to also physically check yourself and take your temperature. I have no experience with those methods, so you should ask them about it!  :) I will say, however, that in over a year I have used ONLY the diligent observation of mucus and we have been successful.

If you have more questions, please ask!!

kate  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild September 02, 2008, 01:57:49 PM
We used the billings ovulation method for a year and it worked perfectly until we didn't follow the method perfectly.

I read about it online and started following it. I did later pick up a book at the library, but I could find everything I needed to know online. Just google "billings ovulation."
: Re: All About Birth Control
: jacknjill September 02, 2008, 02:26:21 PM
Hi Aura,

I'll share my fertility-charting-while-nursing story and hopefully it'll give you some more insight on your questions. I began using charting (using the methods in Taking Charge of Your Fertility) to try to get pregnant last year, when I thought I was having trouble conceiving. I got pregnant the first month I charted!

After giving birth, I was breast-feeding and began charting just to see when/if my cycles were returning, and because we didn't plan on having another baby very soon. I had a couple months of strange cycles; but when I charted correctly (basal temp., cervical mucous, cervical position) I could tell what was "going on" with my cycle. (i.e. was I ovulating? or just having an anovulatory cycle?)

However, because breastfeeding and taking care of a baby tends to disrupt schedules and make for strange sleep patterns, I wasn't able to chart very accurately or consistently. For example, for the most accurate waking basal temp you need to have 3 hrs. of deep sleep in the early morning before waking and taking your temp. That didn't happen very often for me with a young baby! 

All this to say, I ended up getting pregnant when my daughter was 5 month old. If I had thought about it, and deciphered my slightly inaccurate temps, I would have known I was ovulating, and prevented a pregnancy. But I was just too busy...

So, my opinion is:
1. I love using charting for birth control/pregnancy achievement!
2. Even while breastfeeding and with irregular cycles, charting is a very effective method of birth control. BUT...
3. If you REALLY need to prevent a pregnancy, and if your life is TOO hectic to chart accurately, then it may not be the best option for you.

I would highly recommend reading "Taking Charge of Your Fertility". And if after baby #2 is born we decide to try to wait a while before conceiving again, I'm confident that with a little more dedication I can easily use charting for birth control. I would far rather spend 5 minutes a day paying attention to my cycle then using some other method!

Hope this helps.   




 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Mrs. JDT September 03, 2008, 07:36:09 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, and I would love to read this, but money is tight right now and I don't want to buy a book only to find out it doesn't apply to me since I'm nursing and my cycles are not regular. Will this method still work in spite of this?



I found this book at my local library.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 September 04, 2008, 07:56:46 AM
I did read through the first few and last few pages of this topic, but I admit I didn't read all 19 pages of it :o so please forgive me if this has been posted.

I am still nursing (ds is 7 mos) and I've had a cycle fairly regularly since 6 wk pp. In the past, we've used dry condoms with much success at preventing pregnancy. However, I am really tired of it and so is hubby, not to mention that I seem to be more sensitive to them after this last pregnancy and things just "aren't right" with them. We tried NFP before and that's how my 7 mos ds got here--I had just stopped nursing when I got pregnant and I don't think my cycles were regular enough then and I think that's the case now as well.

What other options do I have besides condoms and snipping? What about the neem oil? Any updates on that?

Maybe I don't understand NFP enough (We didn't do that much research, just followed the dr's suggestion)...will that work even if you're not regular?

Thanks,
Aura

Maybe you missed this since you didn't read the whole thread (I'm there with you; I do the same thing when there are pages upon pages and I just need an answer ;)). I posted this just 2 posts before yours. Of course, it gets more involved than this, but this is the basics.

By the book abstaining would look like this:
    Cervical fluid = wet - egg white --- abstain
    Cervix = soft, high, open & wet --- abstain
    3 day of temps at least .2 of a degree higher than past 6 days highest temp --- you may resume intercourse.

Be encouraged - a "regular" cycle is as rare and precious to most women as a trip to the potty w/o the little ones following you into the bathroom. There are always possibilities every month for any woman's cycle to be irregular, effected by stress, change in schedule, etc. If you just do the "14 days after your period is when you ovulate" thing, you still have no idea of whether or not you will get pregnant. I tend to ovulate somewhere between day 17 and somewhere in the 20's. I'm on day 25 right now. I was approaching ovulation last week (in my fertile phase), but went to youth camp and was a counselor to jr high girls, bunking in a cabin with 6 of them and my children for 3 days while my husband was at work. Talk about stress :o :D! So, my body backed off ovulation and now I'm fertile again, and about to ovulate. By the time I do, I won't be starting my next period until day 40 or so. If I just went by the "day 14" thing, I'd be freakin' out, thinking I'm pregnant. But, by following my cervical fluid, cervix and taking my temp, I know I'm not. And I don't chart myself religiously as I used to when I started. I've gotten very lazy, but still know where I'm at.

On taking temps, I know it's been mentioned that you have to have 3 hrs of sleep. I used to say that too, b/c that's what the book/class teaches. I've since been told and found from my own experience that you don't need that much time. If you can get settled back to sleep for another 1/2 hr, that would be fine. You should take your temp about the same time every morning, but if you can't, that's alright as well. You can adjust your temps for the time difference. I do it all the time; never get up at the same time everyday. Just add .1 of a degree for every 1/2 hr earlier you get up and subtract .1 for every 1/2 you sleep in. So. if you're normally getting up at 6:00, but get up at 4:30 w/ baby, take your temp first (if possible) and add .3 to the reading (ie. 96.7 = 97.0). The idea is that the longer you sleep in, the warmer your body becomes. A baby friendly thermometer is one w/ a memory; you can take your temp and turn it off and the next time you turn it on your temp will still be there for you to record. I wouldn't go w/o that feature. Plus, mine only takes about 5-10secs. It was $12 at Walgreens.

I'm pretty sure you can get the book "Taking Charge..." at the library. Mine has it, anyway. It's worth the read.

I looked into peoples' testimonies here on WTM about neem oil and it didn't seem to be that reliable. Those who tested on their peak days of fertility got pregnant quite often, which is too unreliable for me. May as well use nothing.

My husband and I have been using NFP/FAM (what TCOYF teaches; we use condoms every once in a while, but hardly ever) almost since the very beginning of our marriage. My first pregnancy was an oopsie, but I knew I was fertile and our decision was based on the fact that we may well have a baby, which we did. Love him :-*!!! Our second was planned, a one try deal. Love her :-*!!! They will be turning 5 and 3 in Sept and Nov. My cycle didn't return till my dd was almost 1 so, w/ the possibility of pregnancy for about 2 yrs, we haven't had one. Please be encouraged - it can work for you.

HTH!!! Please PM me if you have any questions.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: boysmama September 04, 2008, 11:03:23 AM
We found success in NFP through the couple to couple league. http://www.ccli.org/ (http://www.ccli.org/) My fertility signs were very irregular at the time, but with the method they teach there's virtually no  chance of pregnancy if you follow the strictest set of rules. DH and I went to the couple's house one evening and after that I emailed the lady a few times. We had previously tried billings ovlation. I now know my body better and think that billings would not work so well for me as the NFP which includes basal temps.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: maceoghain September 04, 2008, 11:52:06 AM
We used the billings ovulation method for a year and it worked perfectly until we didn't follow the method perfectly.

I read about it online and started following it. I did later pick up a book at the library, but I could find everything I needed to know online. Just google "billings ovulation."

You just reminded me! Love and Fertility is based almost entirely on the Billings' Ovulation Method. This is an excellent suggestion for a low/no-cost way to learn the method. You could simply make your own "code" system of marking a calendar to keep track of everything. Good idea!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: iluvphil September 05, 2008, 08:13:43 AM
 Have any of you used the withdrawal method successfully as a means of avoiding pregnancy? This is what we do during my fertile time instead of condoms (we both despise those). I've heard that it's a very unreliable method but then I've heard from others that this is all they do. Perhaps it depends on how fertile a woman is and how easily she gets pregnant. So far we've been successful with it but I do have a nagging worry every month until I get my period. I once read in a NFP book that men dribble before they shoot but my dh insists that this isn't true for him. He's much more convinced of this method than I am. :) I am planning on purchasing the Ladycomp but not for another few months and really want to avoid pregnancy. Are we taking a huge chance?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Simply Kristen September 05, 2008, 08:24:46 AM
  Are we taking a huge chance?

Most men have a pre-ejaculate that occurs before orgasm.... and this can contain sperm.
http://www.sexhealthinplainenglish.com/men_articles/cowpers_gland_secretion/cowpers_gland_secretion.htm
: Re: All About Birth Control
: havasmama_05 September 05, 2008, 12:46:47 PM
Have any of you used the withdrawal method successfully as a means of avoiding pregnancy? This is what we do during my fertile time instead of condoms (we both despise those). I've heard that it's a very unreliable method but then I've heard from others that this is all they do. Perhaps it depends on how fertile a woman is and how easily she gets pregnant. So far we've been successful with it but I do have a nagging worry every month until I get my period. I once read in a NFP book that men dribble before they shoot but my dh insists that this isn't true for him. He's much more convinced of this method than I am. :) I am planning on purchasing the Ladycomp but not for another few months and really want to avoid pregnancy. Are we taking a huge chance?

My husband seemed to think he wasn't standard mold either  ;). But, that's how our first came to be. We used withdrawal for a few months while we were learning NFP, but it was never that close to ovulation. But, when I got prego w/ my ds, it was on the day of ovulation or the day before (it was fun telling people we were having a boy even though we never had an ultrasound). So, YES, you're taking chances. But, I don't blame you on that vs. the condom  :P.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama September 05, 2008, 02:06:22 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We use withdrawal in (combination with breastfeeding well beyond the 6-month mark) and we have had great success with it.  And as for getting pregnant on purpose, all 5 times it happened within the first 2 months of trying, so I don't think our success was related to low fertility.  I actually recently read that there is evidence that there is rarely any viable sperm in pre-ejaculate emissions.  However, I still don't think it is considered as effective as the less natural methods.  ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Peg4Jesus7 September 05, 2008, 06:23:41 PM
Have any of you used the withdrawal method successfully as a means of avoiding pregnancy? This is what we do during my fertile time instead of condoms (we both despise those). I've heard that it's a very unreliable method but then I've heard from others that this is all they do. Perhaps it depends on how fertile a woman is and how easily she gets pregnant. So far we've been successful with it but I do have a nagging worry every month until I get my period. I once read in a NFP book that men dribble before they shoot but my dh insists that this isn't true for him. He's much more convinced of this method than I am. :) I am planning on purchasing the Ladycomp but not for another few months and really want to avoid pregnancy. Are we taking a huge chance?

I am interested in this too .... We use it, although we mostly abstain for a few days around what I think is ovulation (just going by tracking my cycles on a calendar, noticing any mucous).

So far it has been reliable, but our last two children were the result of knowing we were taking a chance and conceiving right away each time (no fertility problems, I guess).

This wasn't too much of a problem, as we did want more children, we were just surprised that it only took one "chance" each time.  However, we both feel our family is complete now, and in our circumstances, REALLY don't want to conceive again.

So withdrawal would be our preferred method also, if we knew it was reliable, because we do not plan on taking any more "chances"!

BTW, I read somewhere (wish I could remember where) that ovulation is better calculated by tracking your cycles, then counting 14 days BACK from the onset of your period to figure out when you ovulated.  Rather than 14 days forward from onset.  That means you have to track for a while to have enough months to look at 14 days prior and get a feel for your ovulation days.

Not very exact, but since I'm very regular, it has worked so far.  Just not sure I trust it completely, enough to gamble on another pregnancy!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Peg4Jesus7 September 05, 2008, 06:30:10 PM
So far it has been reliable, but our last two children were the result of knowing we were taking a chance and conceiving right away each time (no fertility problems, I guess).

To clarify, by "knowing we were taking a chance" I mean that we took a gamble and DIDN'T withdraw even though we knew I might be ovulating.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: iluvphil September 06, 2008, 02:13:52 PM
 Thank-you, ladies, for your input! It seems like we are taking a chance, maybe not a huge one, but a chance just the same. This method has worked for us in the past so I'm not sure why I don't trust it anymore except that this time around we are serious about avoiding pregnancy for a few years. We have a 2 yr old and 7 mo. old and we'd like a nice break. We used the withdrawal method for a little over a year after we were married before dd was conceived. We weren't necessarily trying to get pregnant but it was an iffy day and we decided to just take a chance and did it the "right" way, and voila! i was pregnant. After she was born it was back to withdrawal, then the Pill for a few months (because I was ridiculously paranoid; got off then because I felt so dreadful) and then second dd was conceived, but we were trying. So, like I said, it's worked! But until I get my Ladycomp I think we'll combine withdrawal with contraceptive jelly. Just to make SURE.... :)
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama September 07, 2008, 01:53:50 AM
  Does anyone know of anything similar to the Ladycomp that is not so pricey, or perhaps a place to buy it for less?  I can't believe it is $600!
  I guess it's worth it, but we just wouldn't be able to come up with that much money for over a year and I would likely already be pregnant again by then.  If not, I guess I'll plan to use a combination of LAM, withdrawal and maybe the leasshield.  Since we don't want to deal with the side effects of chemical/hormonal methods and I am allergic to spermicides, we are limited to barrier and natural methods, but I don't trust myself to be diligent enough in tracking NFP the right way.   ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: herbs girl September 07, 2008, 03:09:32 AM
  Does anyone know of anything similar to the Ladycomp that is not so pricey, or perhaps a place to buy it for less?  I can't believe it is $600!
  I guess it's worth it, but we just wouldn't be able to come up with that much money for over a year and I would likely already be pregnant again by then.  If not, I guess I'll plan to use a combination of LAM, withdrawal and maybe the leasshield.  Since we don't want to deal with the side effects of chemical/hormonal methods and I am allergic to spermicides, we are limited to barrier and natural methods, but I don't trust myself to be diligent enough in tracking NFP the right way.   ~L


The Pearly is quite a bit cheaper, is exactly the same thing, but there a few nice things it does not have like it does not light  up in the night when you push buttons.

We did not come up with that much money all at once. They set up 38.00 a month to come from our checking account automaticly for 10 months, and it was interest free! We did do a 88.00 down payment.  Also, you can get used Ladycomp's from aphroditewomanshealth.com natural birth control forum. Sometimes a girl tries it and she decides she doesnt want it so she will resell it on there for cheaper. You can get a new temperature sensor for around 35.00 or so.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: iluvphil September 07, 2008, 10:09:38 AM
 I recently saw a new Ladycomp advertised on Amazon.com for $480. Shipping was less than $8. The seller claims she bought it a year ago and never took it out of the package. If you go to amazon.com and type "ladycomp" in the search bar you should be able to find it.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: iluvphil September 07, 2008, 10:20:14 AM
 Another place you can buy the Ladycomp for cheaper is raxmedical.com. I'll probably purchase mine from here.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama September 07, 2008, 12:54:29 PM
Wow!  that's great!  I'll talk to my dh tonight and see if that price sounds more practical. 
Also, has anyone heard of the Ovacue Fertility Monitor?    ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: petrimama September 20, 2008, 08:11:46 AM
I am not sure where to post this, so forgive the multiple post.  eBay has two LadyComps listed right now.  I also just bought a Baby Comp new at a fraction of the cost.  I have been watching prices on these and they are not usually listed there, so I wanted to put the word out. Oh, neither listing is mine and I don't know the sellers.    ~L
: Re: All About Birth Control
: larissakissa October 05, 2008, 11:44:04 AM
I really liked this form of birth control. ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lovingmomof2 October 06, 2008, 02:07:49 AM
I really liked this form of birth control. ;D

That never worked for us. ;)  DH's motto is "Where there is a WILL there is a WAY!"
: Re: All About Birth Control
: LKS October 06, 2008, 08:16:11 AM
Same for us!  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild April 01, 2009, 04:07:52 PM
i have found a new form of birth control... the honey cap... you use a diaphragm with manuka honey as a spermicide. to read more just google "honey cap contraception". The great thing is that the honey cap can be left in up to 72 hours and some say up to 7 days without requiring additional honey. more info can be found here... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DiaphragmsAndCaps/

it seems to be working so far...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: lewisquiverfull April 01, 2009, 05:43:01 PM
Anyone use the Mirena? DH and I are looking into them, not sure if we want to use it or not. There aren't too many options when you look into all the side effects of birth control. Been using NFP, but apparantly I'm not too diligent, preg, with #6 now.  :o
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild April 02, 2009, 02:44:32 AM
here is a support group for those with mirena side effects... http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=713

: Re: All About Birth Control
: Darcy August 06, 2009, 09:53:59 AM
Mirena is an IUD. Yes, it does emit a hormone that is supposed to supress ovulation, but all IUDs work with a Plan A and a Plan B. Plan A is the hormone and suppression of ovulation. But if that fails (like it does often with all hormonal b/c) Plan B is spontanious abortion of a fertilized egg, i.e., a baby. I know many women who weren't told this by their doctors and ened up surprised when they had a miscarriage while on the Mirena. If you are at all concerned about using a method that could cause an abortion, this is not the method for you.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hi_itsgwen August 06, 2009, 10:59:27 AM
I was told by my doctor that an IUD was 99.8 percent effective against conception, and the percentage is higher after it's been in place for a year.  Well, a year and a half after I got it, I was laying on an ultrasound table looking at my baby attached to the IUD instead of to my womb...and he/she wasn't living.   :'(  That was probably one of the worst days of my life, and I would never wish for any couple to go through the guilt that we did after this happened.

I doubt that the doctor ever even reported it as a pregnancy with an IUD. DNC caused me to miscarry with the next pregnancy.

So, I would advise against it, obviously.  DH and I are fertile like nobody's business, and we have had excellent success in using c*ndoms.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie August 06, 2009, 11:24:22 AM
So, I would advise against it, obviously.  DH and I are fertile like nobody's business, and we have had excellent success in using c*ndoms.

yeah, us too! aside from going on a trip and no one thought to bring them.  i had just finished my period two days before.......i am 12 weeks pregnant!   ::)  severely fertile i would say!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie August 06, 2009, 05:22:19 PM
No one thought to stop at the store?! That is pretty funny!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie August 07, 2009, 02:34:04 AM
No one thought to stop at the store?! That is pretty funny!

yeah, later when we found out i was pregnant, i jokingly said Geez we couldn't have just went down to the gas station and bought one? like all the teenagers do?  what gives???  i was actually uneasy the whole time, cuz i am known to be way too fertile. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: AndysJess August 07, 2009, 05:02:34 AM
Yup...our last 2 babies happened kind of that way.  I would tell my dh..ok, this is a very, very fertile.  He would shrug it off..AW it'll be ok.  Well, it was ok.  38 weeks later, we had a new baby...both times
I'm like you 4myhoonie...very, very fertile!!! Now, if I say it's probably a good day to conceive, hubby makes sure to use something..lol
: Re: All About Birth Control
: floydian August 07, 2009, 07:04:54 AM
No one thought to stop at the store?! That is pretty funny!

yeah, later when we found out i was pregnant, i jokingly said Geez we couldn't have just went down to the gas station and bought one? like all the teenagers do?  what gives???  i was actually uneasy the whole time, cuz i am known to be way too fertile. 

You will be VERY glad that he didn't stop at that gas station in about 28.5 weeks from now!!!  Those little suprises are the best gifts ever!!! ;) :-*
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie August 07, 2009, 01:37:32 PM
it is funny, it only took 3 "surprises" before we caught on that there are no safe days!  yes, a sweet baby to have around is jut what our family needs right now.   ;)  looking forward to it!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: floydian August 07, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
it is funny, it only took 3 "surprises" before we caught on that there are no safe days!  yes, a sweet baby to have around is jut what our family needs right now.   ;)  looking forward to it!

Heh....I have a few of those myself.  I finally figured out that there are some months I ovulated twice.  I sure am glad I didn't figure that out earlier.  I'd be missing out on a couple of really cute boys and one girl.  And seriously, the last little guy was the absolute worst timing I could ever have immagined, and he was the best thing that could have happened to our family at the time.  God planned "accidents" are so much fun!!!!   :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MacyMay August 07, 2009, 08:45:21 PM
it is funny, it only took 3 "surprises" before we caught on that there are no safe days! 

Hay, I'm wondering if any of you "SuperFertileWonderWomen" have had any success using charting or something similar. I know that lots of people do use it with success, but I'm one of those people that can get pregnant at the drop of a hat (so I avoid graduations - ha ha!).  :D :D So does anybody that's extra, EXTRA fertile use charting or something similar, and have done so successfully? Especially long term? I know babies are the sweetest things, really I do, and I love mine with all my heart. But my body needs a break, man. It's just worn out. It can't take a "happy accident" right now, KWIM?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: 4myhoonie August 08, 2009, 02:25:01 AM
not me, but my friend who teaches it tends to ovulate twice, and let's just say she's better at teaching it.   ::) ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mykidsmom August 08, 2009, 05:11:38 AM
it is funny, it only took 3 "surprises" before we caught on that there are no safe days! 

Hay, I'm wondering if any of you "SuperFertileWonderWomen" have had any success using charting or something similar. I know that lots of people do use it with success, but I'm one of those people that can get pregnant at the drop of a hat (so I avoid graduations - ha ha!).  :D :D So does anybody that's extra, EXTRA fertile use charting or something similar, and have done so successfully? Especially long term? I know babies are the sweetest things, really I do, and I love mine with all my heart. But my body needs a break, man. It's just worn out. It can't take a "happy accident" right now, KWIM?


I also ovulate twice a month.  Day 8 and days 16-19.  We tried to use NFP with charting when we were first married but it was really difficult because my first ovulation I don't really have any signs other then slight mucous change.  With my second ovulation I have all the classic signs and it's easy to figure out.  We only did it for a few months because my hub kept having, "I wonder if" happen because of that second ovulation.  I know for sure my first pregnancy was on the first ovulation.  The others were the second.  So...... I'm sure it can be done.  You just need to be prepared that it CAN fail with double ovulation. 

If you need a break, will your husband use c*nd*ms?  I don't necessarily love them either, but we've been using them successfully for 14yrs and have never had a pregnancy off of them.  Also, when you're ready to be done with them, you're done.   From a health standpoint I think they're about the best thing there is because of no hormones, etc.  Of course, I happen to be allergic to latex and we didn't know it so after ten years of using them I ended up with an autoimmune disease.  So, make sure you're not allergic to latex first!

patti
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MacyMay August 08, 2009, 05:58:56 AM
Hum... how should I put this? Um, let's just say that c*nd*ms are SO disliked (by both of us) that we often don't do the deed at all rather than try to put up with them. (Which I guess is its own form of birth control  ::)). I don't know that I'm actually allergic to latex, but it is very irritating to me and not a pleasant experience. My hubby hates them, too, for other reasons, which I'm not sure are appropriate to mention here. We've found one kind that makes things much better for both of us (lambskin), but they are way too expensive for us to use all the time right now. (Watch for the two people cheering the loudest when the recession is over - haha!)

It gets old feeling like there is no "Freedom" in marriage, KWIM? It's just worrying all the time, or saying, "Not right now, this might be a bad time." . I can't and won't do hormonal birth control, can't afford lambskins all the time (and even those aren't perfect), and don't trust charting. No vasectomies or tubals. We would (crazily enough ;D) like to have more children some day. Just not right now.

I really want to find a natural option that could reliably inform me which days were safe. I was thinking about trying to invest in a LadyComp, but is that still an option if you ovulate more than once a month?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mykidsmom August 08, 2009, 08:49:33 AM
Hum... how should I put this? Um, let's just say that c*nd*ms are SO disliked (by both of us) that we often don't do the deed at all rather than try to put up with them. (Which I guess is its own form of birth control  ::)). I don't know that I'm actually allergic to latex, but it is very irritating to me and not a pleasant experience. My hubby hates them, too, for other reasons, which I'm not sure are appropriate to mention here. We've found one kind that makes things much better for both of us (lambskin), but they are way too expensive for us to use all the time right now. (Watch for the two people cheering the loudest when the recession is over - haha!)

It gets old feeling like there is no "Freedom" in marriage, KWIM? It's just worrying all the time, or saying, "Not right now, this might be a bad time." . I can't and won't do hormonal birth control, can't afford lambskins all the time (and even those aren't perfect), and don't trust charting. No vasectomies or tubals. We would (crazily enough ;D) like to have more children some day. Just not right now.

I really want to find a natural option that could reliably inform me which days were safe. I was thinking about trying to invest in a LadyComp, but is that still an option if you ovulate more than once a month?

Why not use a diaphragm then?  I hate the things but you could at least use it on days 8-10 and then again 15-20 or 21 just to be sure.

patti

p.s  btw, we HATED the lambskin!   :P
: Re: All About Birth Control
: floydian August 08, 2009, 08:56:20 AM
Or a cervical cap.  I have never used one, but I have a friend that does, and she prefers them over a diaphragm.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen August 08, 2009, 09:46:56 AM

I really want to find a natural option that could reliably inform me which days were safe. I was thinking about trying to invest in a LadyComp, but is that still an option if you ovulate more than once a month?

We happily used a cervical cap for many years.  You may want to find a midwife to talk to about them.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: MacyMay August 08, 2009, 11:07:43 AM

I thought you had to use a spermicide with both the diaphragm and the cervical cap, and I have had a very bad reaction to spermicide. O'course, I'm not crazy about putting those chemicals in that area that frequently, either.  ::)

: Re: All About Birth Control
: mykidsmom August 08, 2009, 11:47:12 AM

I thought you had to use a spermicide with both the diaphragm and the cervical cap, and I have had a very bad reaction to spermicide. O'course, I'm not crazy about putting those chemicals in that area that frequently, either.  ::)



You are *supposed* to use a spermicide, however they can be used without one and quite honestly, this would be *some* protection vs. no protection.  I also think their MUST be something natural you could use as a spermicide.  I thought I saw someone mention something about using something called a "honey cap" on here that actually uses raw honey??????  I wonder if you google "natural barrier methods of birth control" if you'd find something more natural as a spermicide.

patti
: Re: All About Birth Control
: queentea August 08, 2009, 11:54:34 AM
I have a "diaphram baby" ran out of spermacide, so it isn't very effective that way.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen August 08, 2009, 06:20:53 PM

I thought you had to use a spermicide with both the diaphragm and the cervical cap, and I have had a very bad reaction to spermicide. O'course, I'm not crazy about putting those chemicals in that area that frequently, either.  ::)



If the cap is rinsed with apple cider vinegar immediately prior to insertion, it seems to work alright for us.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Darcy August 09, 2009, 10:39:28 AM
it is funny, it only took 3 "surprises" before we caught on that there are no safe days! 

Hay, I'm wondering if any of you "SuperFertileWonderWomen" have had any success using charting or something similar. I know that lots of people do use it with success, but I'm one of those people that can get pregnant at the drop of a hat (so I avoid graduations - ha ha!).  :D :D So does anybody that's extra, EXTRA fertile use charting or something similar, and have done so successfully? Especially long term? I know babies are the sweetest things, really I do, and I love mine with all my heart. But my body needs a break, man. It's just worn out. It can't take a "happy accident" right now, KWIM?

I consider myself "super fertile" and have Irish twins to prove it. :) My body always ovulates at about 8 weeks post-partum. There's no such thing as LAM for me! :P I chart my signals and we only use barriers during my fertile time. I don't ovulate twice, however, so that makes successful charting easier. It's not difficult and it's nice knowing what my body is doing. I recommend it for every woman whether you're trying to avoid pregnancy or not. We're now pregnant again and there will be a nice 2 1/2 year gap between this and the last baby.
: Re: All About Birth Control
: floydian August 09, 2009, 01:05:55 PM

I thought you had to use a spermicide with both the diaphragm and the cervical cap, and I have had a very bad reaction to spermicide. O'course, I'm not crazy about putting those chemicals in that area that frequently, either.  ::)



If the cap is rinsed with apple cider vinegar immediately prior to insertion, it seems to work alright for us.

LH, are you saying that the apple cider vinegar works as a natural spermicide?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: ladyhen August 09, 2009, 04:03:55 PM
floydian, I tried to find some actual research on the web that wasn't filled with a bunch of other nonsense that I don't particularly care to recommend and couldn't find anything right off the cuff.   Sorry. 

My midwife had a magazine article many years ago with some research about the spermicide effect of an acidic solution, like acv or lemon juice.   Since the commercial preparations weren't something we wanted to use, we decided to use the acidic solutions.   Never did check with a microscope, but . . . .   ::)  seemed to work. 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hi_itsgwen August 09, 2009, 05:03:40 PM
I was just doing a little googling myself on similar issues, and I did find something referring to lemon juice as being a sperm imobilizer (this is what the wikipedia spermicide article described it as).

This article has more on its use historically as a spermicide.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2910

But please, don't take this as a personal testimony...I've never tried it. :)

More historical spermicidal options (according to http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761588849/spermicide.html )

"One of the earliest mentions of spermicide appears in the Ebers Papyrus, a medical guide written in 1550 bc. The guide suggested that a lint tampon medicated with a mixture of acacia tree leaves, dates, and honey would prevent pregnancy. Acacia leaves break down into lactic acid, which today is recognized as a spermicide. Other substances once used as spermicides include lemon juice, vinegar, soap solutions, cocoa butter, and crocodile and elephant dung."

crocodile and elephant dung...really?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: hi_itsgwen August 09, 2009, 05:12:57 PM
http://www.ehow.com/how_2160941_juice-as-birth-control-alternative.html
How to use lemon juice as a birth control method.

and Dr. Mercola weighs in (at the bottom of the article)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/10/26/lemons.aspx
: Re: All About Birth Control
: floydian August 10, 2009, 04:09:21 AM
cocoa butter, and crocodile and elephant dung."

crocodile and elephant dung...really?

I think I'll pass!   :P  :D ;D :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: Jade August 10, 2009, 07:04:41 AM
Other substances once used as spermicides include lemon juice, vinegar, soap solutions, cocoa butter, and crocodile and elephant dung."

crocodile and elephant dung...really?

Actually, I think they got a little confused. The crocodile and elephant dung wasn't used as a spermicide, but rather as a very, very effective deterrent. It was the desperate man, indeed, who persisted in spite of the crocodile dung!  ;D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild August 10, 2009, 11:15:24 AM
i use manuka honey with my diaphragm. there is a diaphragm and caps yahoo group that gives info on that... also how to use other natural spermicide alternatives. http://groups.yahoo.com/adultconf?dest=%2Fgroup%2FDiaphragmsAndCaps%2F
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie August 12, 2009, 05:25:43 AM
man none of those options sound too nice...I've sprayed diluted vinegar down there before and thought I was having a baby!  :o  I think Praire child is right about the dung being a deterent!!! that is toooooo funny!! and gross, I don't think I want to know any more about that!!!
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie August 29, 2009, 05:47:54 PM
yes, more info please. :) I mentioned this to a friend and she also couldn't get into the group...
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild August 30, 2009, 04:40:19 PM
Yes, it is only a certain kind of honey. Manuka honey with umf of 16 or higher. I buy mine at vitacost. No, it doesn't cause yeast issues as it is considered to be medicinal honey, antiviral and antifungal.

you have to join the group to access it, it is a women's only group.

btw, you have to actually use it for it to work... I'm pregnant now, but it certainly wasn't the diaphragms fault. :D
: Re: All About Birth Control
: prairiechild August 30, 2009, 04:51:44 PM
Here is a link that gives a general idea of how the honey cap works...http://thewelltimedperiod.blogspot.com/2007/05/honey-cap.html

Here is a cut and paste of some detailed info from the yahoo group...


in regards to the use of honey, would you coat the D
in the honey, if not storing in the honey, then insert it? and I was
reviewing the files section, as per Q&A, if using honey it is good
for 72 hours?

Trevor says 72 hours is the accepted standard in Europe.

per your MD Trevor. And his anwser in the Q and A
wasn't clear, does MORE honey need to be added after each act? and
how would you get the honey up there?

No, you would not need to add any additional honey for the entire 72
hours. It is acceptable to do this, but the diaphragm must be stored
and kept in honey for 12 hours in between uses to kill bacterial and
to gather enough honey to act as a spermicide. Then the diaphragm is
inserted without washing and can be worn for the 72 hours. After
removing the diaphragm it should be rinsed and replaced into the
honey for minimum 12 hours. Trevor says many honey users need two
diaphragms and two honey jars for this reason.

Regarding the AVLJ spermicide, it is not advisable to substitute
limes for lemons simply because there have not been any tests to
determine if using a lime as active ingredient is effective.

Please feel free to ask questions anytime you have them.

Jennifer





: Re: All About Birth Control
: pelican July 29, 2010, 01:35:05 AM
Prairie Child, do you actually buy the honey cap that is impregnated with honey from the UK or elsewhere or do you use the diaphragm from a local gyn. and just use it with honey?  Do you also keep it in the honey or only add when it will be used?
: Re: All About Birth Control
: mommie July 29, 2010, 11:40:04 AM
I'm curious how the honey effects anyone w/ yeast infections???
: Re: All About Birth Control
: pelican July 29, 2010, 03:05:21 PM
Bump.....Anyone else with any experience with this? 
: Re: All About Birth Control
: healthybratt March 22, 2012, 04:35:21 AM
I am "reviving" this thread. DH and I are going to have to do something after this baby comes and are looking at ALL our options. Basically we've narrowed it down to 2. Vasectomy or NFP.  We would go with NFP hands down but pregnancy is not an option. So we lean toward vas BUT are concerned about the long term affects. SO all you out there that have gone this route can you please tell me if you have had long term (I'm thinking REALLY long term) affects. Like 20 and 30,40,50 years. Concerns are but not limited to : prostate cancer, impotency, on going pain,pregnancy risk. I have read all 21 pages of this post so I am looking for any new info. And please don't blast me with your "spiritual" answers. Just facts please.

this question certainly warrants it's own discussion.  i split it and moved it here.

http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,28865.0.html
: Re: All About Birth Control
: babymakers August 29, 2012, 03:44:13 PM
First off I want to say I just FOUND A LADY COMP ON EBAY FOR $135 BUY IT NOW. I also went to www.allofcraigs.com and www.amazon.com Lots of these places have some that or 200 or 300 buy it now but on ebay I saw more than one starting bids off at around 100 dollars.

Secondly, I have seven children and have learned a bit about natural spacing of my children. My seventh child is about a year and a half and I just got my period back. This is not always so with the other children, as sometimes I get my cycle back sooner, and I have found a direct link between how my child is raised and how quickly my fertility comes back.

For the longest spacing I do ALL of the following....
NEVER give the baby ANY solids or liquids until THEY want the food and reach for it.
I always SLEEP with my baby until they are done nursing.
I NEVER, unless it is a VERY special occassion, get a baby sitter. The baby is WITH ME. Day and night.

If any of these things start to slip I will likely ovulate and start my cycle again. I think this is where many women make mistakes and say nursing does not work. (Not all- just many women give it a bad rap) You have to do all three. Pumping so you can work or go someplace even once a week is dangerous! Getting a sitter for a few hours here and there is not advised. Baby has to be in bed with me (I don't know why... my body just knows)

Yes, it does get frustrating at times to have a baby in bed tossing around- get a bigger bed- we live in the USA and have that luxery LOL

And I would like to say I AM VERY, VERY, VERY fertile. Like usually I only have 1 to 3 cycles before I am pregnant again. I have seven children aged 15 down to 1. Some closer together than others and always directly affected by how I raised them as babies.

Hope that helps someone....