Remedies & Therapies => Alternate Modalities => : JeffAngie October 18, 2007, 06:32:01 PM

: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: JeffAngie October 18, 2007, 06:32:01 PM
Has anyone tryed EFT from what I read it is a form of acupuncture but without the needles?
I still am very sceptical about Chinese Medicine being a Concervative Christian.

The other question is has anyone ever used this for weight loss?
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: JeffAngie October 19, 2007, 07:29:15 AM
bumping this question

: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: healthyinOhio October 19, 2007, 07:30:57 AM
If it is acupuncture, without the needle, then what is puncturing the skin?  Or is this like counseling?  I am confused, too.  :-\
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: herbs girl October 19, 2007, 07:40:01 AM
I have heard of it, Dr Mercola really encourages it.
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: JeffAngie October 19, 2007, 07:41:44 AM
They call it Tapping

Check this out and watch the video.


Please let me know what you all think.
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: healthyinOhio October 19, 2007, 07:44:11 AM
I have heard of it, Dr Mercola really encourages it.

Yeah, just because Mercola recommends it, makes me want to go out and do it.  ::) ;D

Here is what Mercola says about it:
What is the Emotional Freedom Technique?

The Emotional Freedom Technique, or EFT, is the psychological acupressure technique I routinely use in my practice and most highly recommend to optimize your emotional health. Although it is still often overlooked, emotional health is absolutely essential to your physical health and healing - no matter how devoted you are to the proper diet and lifestyle, you will not achieve your body's ideal healing and preventative powers if emotional barriers stand in your way.

EFT is very easy to learn, and will help you:

    * Remove Negative Emotions
    * Reduce Food Cravings
    * Reduce or Eliminate Pain
    * Implement Positive Goals

EFT is a form of psychological acupressure, based on the same energy meridians used in traditional acupuncture to treat physical and emotional ailments for over five thousand years, but without the invasiveness of needles. Instead, simple tapping with the fingertips is used to input kinetic energy onto specific meridians on the head and chest while you think about your specific problem - whether it is a traumatic event, an addiction, pain, etc. -- and voice positive affirmations.

Since this is getting into the "psychological" aspect of health, it will probably be moved to to 7x Sunday.  Personally, I would never recommend this type of health "movement". Too close to Eastern mysticism for my liking.  That's just my personal opinion. 
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: cecac October 19, 2007, 07:49:23 AM
I have had my chiro/Oriental Medical Doctor use little steel balls pressed into certain acupuncture points in my ears for healing of specific areas.  My MIL had them, also.  They were taped in.  We would remove them in 24-48 hours. That is the only time I've seen something other than actual needles used, but the concept was the very same and the pressure points were the same.  I've only had accupuncture one time, and it was used to stop my overreaction to cedar (cedar fever that had been ongoing for about 3 weeks).  It worked.  The little balls were used in a chronic condition, and it was not as black/white for me to tell whether it worked or not.  

The "Emotional Freedom" part of the EFT title would indicate that,perhaps, whatever this is it is not based on medical science, at least not completely.   :-\  

In my experience with Chinese medicine, my OMD never has in any way alluded to spiritual/emotional connections.  That would be a red flag for me.  

HTH, and it is my opinion only,

HIO posted at the same time as I was.  What she posted just underscores my concerns for this.

: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: JeffAngie October 19, 2007, 07:52:25 AM
This is one reason I am sceptical.  I have head good things about it but sometimes I wouder how much we as Christians can join in on.  

From what I heard it is like acupuncture just without the needles.  I would never do acupunture because I don't do needles.  I also question that and the religious aspect of it.  I have heard it said that you can do acupuncture and not do the religious practices of it.  If this is like acupuncture can you do the same with this and not get involved in religious aspects of it?

: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: cecac October 19, 2007, 09:24:56 AM
If, IMO, there is anything to do with the psychological in the treatment, then I don't believe it would be a situation where you could, say, have the accupuncture treatment but divorce yourself from any other things which you would be asked to do.  In what HIO posted, it openly says that you have to be thinking about the area involved.  That is mental in nature, and would likely require the practitioner to instruct you what to think.  I would be very uncomfortable with that sort of treatment.   Also, I have a concern about just applying pressure for short lengths of time.  Acupuncture with needles (as well as the steel balls that were used on me) require more time.  There were no instructions given for me to think about anything.  I wasn't instructed to do anything other than lie still and relax for acupuncture.  For the steel balls, they had to be applied and taped and that was it.

Just some thoughts,

: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: healthyinOhio October 19, 2007, 11:14:33 AM
you have to be thinking about the area involved.  That is mental in nature, and would likely require the practitioner to instruct you what to think. 


That sounds like it would be the new age procedure called "guided imagery".
That is what the EFT reminds me of.
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: mykidsmom October 19, 2007, 01:54:09 PM
The one person we know who practices this with clients is a very backslidden chiristian who has totally gone new age.  I would not recommend anything this psycological.  My ND asked me to consider it one time and we told her no way after reading about it.


: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: skelliott2 October 19, 2007, 03:09:56 PM
I don't have a problem with this technique at all.  It basically resets the electrical system, and helps a person refocus.  It has helped my son a lot.  When he gets very upset, I tap him on the suggested points, and he says "I am calm, I am calm."  while I tap him.  When I'm done, he's smiling, and ready to face the world again.  I'm not sure if it's the act of tapping him, or his saying that he's calm that makes it work, but it does work.

I don't really care whether it seems eastern.  A lot of our natural healing practices (such as herbalism) were also used in the east, but we don't throw them out just because they're strange.  It's just another tool we use to keep him calm and off behavior modifying drugs. 

I don't know if this would work for weight loss, but it does help with panic attacks, and I'm thankful for it. 
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: ScottsHelper October 19, 2007, 05:30:16 PM
Glad to see this topic addressed here.  I can see this thread going along the same path as the Muscle Testing/ Kinesiology thread...as some people will say they benefit from it and others will say they have big red flags about this. 

I know someone who has the videos which teach this technique, and I have gone back and forth with that person about why they think it is ok, and why I don't believe it is.   It is so hard to put your finger on! I have personally watched the first video, not to learn how, but to try to determine just why, even upon hearing the basic premise of the technique, that both my husband and I had major red flags go up about it. (For our family, there is no question, we will not participate in it.)  I won't go into a spiritual debate about this here, it is not my place.  I will only say that the process, from watching the video, is extremely humanistic.  It was interesting to watch a man who was deathly afraid of the water go through the technique on camera at a public pool and was able, that same day, to get in the water and go under.  Does it work?  Yes, I believe it just might in some cases.  My friend says she has seen it work.   

The technique has a person repeat out loud "Even though I have (fill in the blank with whatever problem you have), I completely and totally accept myself." (That right there seems off to me).  Then they tap in the designated places, make humming sounds and sing a short tune (if I remember correctly to engage the right side of the brain), and count (to engage the left side of the brain).  There may be more to the procedure, but it's been awhile, and I can't remember it all.  Now, the person I know who uses this says she simply skips the first part about accepting yourself and does the tapping while thinking of the problem, so that makes it all ok.   But, I even have to wonder about the "energy meridians" that are involved in this and other techniques like accupuncture that also involve that.

And, that is why I replied to this thread.  My husband and I are both Doctors of Chiropractic, and our training did not get into the area of energy fields or meridians.  We are very aware of how easily the Chiropractic profession itself can slide into New Age techniques and my husband (I have never been in practice) stays far, far away from it.  Our bodies DO have nerve impulses which travel through our nerves from the brain to all parts of our body.  There is definately an electrical system within the body, and it can be tested quantitatively.  It is the nerve impulse, for example that is sent from your brain down the nerve pathways to reach your big toe to tell the correct muscles to contract so that you wiggle your toe.  I don't believe these energy meridians that this technique deals with are the same thing...  I have searched some on the internet trying to find out just WHAT these energy meridians are...a "life force" ...this is where things seem to get "ify".  The explanation below that I will copy and paste here is just a small part of a larger explanation from http://www.tuberose.com/meridians.html (I know nothing about this site, just that I Googled "meridians", and this site came up with a pretty detailed description of what I have typically found.) The description seems to be of an intangable force that supposedly flows through all living things...

      "It is believed that two opposite ends of the spectrum--yin, the         energy of earth and yang, and the energy of heaven--combined with humans to create this vital force.The Chinese discovered and identified twelve acupuncture meridians along which this energy travels in the human body. Acupuncture meridians are like copper traces on an electronic circuit board, running throughout the body. They were named by the life function associated with them. To the majority of Western scientists, acupuncture meridians seem like imaginary structures because there are no published anatomical studies of the meridians in orthodox medical journals to substantiate their existence. They prefer to believe that nerve pathways constitute the true mechanism of acupuncture therapy. Meridians are the pathways of the positive and negative energy power, which carries on some of the communication between the various parts of human beings. 
Meridians connect specific teeth, organs, tissues, in fact, everything int he body. These have been measured and mapped by modern technological methods; electronically, thermatically and radioactively. Normal skin resistance over a healthy point is 100,000 Ohms. With practice and awareness they can be felt. Through these meridians passes an invisible nutritive energy known to the Chinese as Ch'i. The Ch'i energy enters the body through specific acupuncture points and flows to deeper organ structures, bringing life-giving nourishment of a subtle energetic nature. Acupuncture points have unique electrical characteristics, which distinguish them from surrounding skin. These acupuncture points exist along the meridians. These points are electro-magnetic in character and consist of small palpable spots, which can be located by hand, with micro-electrical voltage meters and with muscle testing, when they are abnormally functioning."

So, they are saying that these meridians can be measured, but the "Ch'i" that flows through them is what I don't get.  What is its source if it flows into our bodies by way of these accupuncture points?   My friend's argument is that just because we don't understand it or have good scientific knowlegde of it, that God made it and put it there, so there is nothing wrong with working with it....it is not satanic or evil.  It is at this point that I am not sure how to respond to that without knowing better the nature of "ch'i".   My husband has no doubt that this "energy" from the cosmos or wherever that you are supposedly letting in through those points may very well be a demonic influence.  If that is possible, and until we do have a true understanding of what it is we are dealing with, and even if we remove the positive affirmation part of it, then, for us, it's best just to stay away, even if it can bring about a desired result. Besides, the Lord Himself and His Word are really the best places to go with our psychological problems! (I am not discounting the instances where there is a true organic cause, though I know He's able to fix that too!)
I'd like to hear if anyone has better knowlege of these meridians and ch'i. It would definately help in evaluating competely this technique as well as accupuncture and other techniques that we might consider "eastern". 
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: ScottsHelper October 22, 2007, 07:06:13 AM
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: born-an-okie October 22, 2007, 08:09:02 AM
I'm glad to see this topic addressed as I have wondered about it.  I'm not going to get into any kind of religious debate about it as that is a personal issue.  The mother of my sister in law has used EFT a lot in the last year, and it is amazing to see the difference in her.  She has struggled with depression and a large variety of health issues for years.  From what I have read and watched about it, it seems to be (in my opinion) a combination of acupressure and the power of positive thinking.  My mother had a frozen shoulder a few years ago and nothing at all helped until she went to an MD that also used alternative medicines like acupuncture.  After the acupuncture she regained full mobility of  her shoulder. 

I guess the spiritual debate belongs on a different forum.  I would like to know what those who use EFT use it for and how it has helped them.  Any stories?
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: Lizzy October 22, 2007, 01:11:13 PM
I was fascinated with EFT when I first heard about it. My 10 year old son
had seasonal allergies and not this past Spring, but the year before his
face swelled and his eyes were watering and itching, so I did EFT with
him. After 2 times, it cleared up, and never came back, not even this
past Spring. It helped me with TMJ alot, but one day while praying, I felt
very uneasy about it and I'm not sure why. But until I get assurance from
the Lord, I can't use it anymore. But, it does work. I sure would like to be
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: skelliott2 October 22, 2007, 02:34:14 PM
Maybe the good or bad of any program depends upon how you use it.  For example, I wasn't comfortable with my son saying that he totally accepts himself regardless of his behavior, so I just had him repeat the good behavior that we were working towards, like "I am calm, I am calm", instead of "even though I am angry, I totally accept myself."  I didn't ever want him to think it's OK to be upset and anxious over every little thing, so he said the desirable behavior instead.  It still worked.
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: SC December 27, 2007, 03:06:01 AM
Here are two quotes from Gabe Anast on some related topics. These may offer you some points of direction when considering alternative practices (he is referring to muscle testing in his comments in this first quote):
There is no scientific evidence for it because it is a method that cannot be repeated. It is in this respect identical to crystal balls, ouija, pendulums, water witching, etc. Further, it is not only not "scientific" but it is irrational. Muscle testing expects a response similar to that of higher cognitive process from muscle, just like ouija expects an answer from paper and a movable indicator, pendulums from the motion of a pendulum, water witching from a metal rod, etc. Whether or not these methods "work" is not the issue.

To clarify what I mean by irrational, lets look at the idea of prayer:

Prayer, interestingly, is in my experience different from the above methods in that the answer to prayer most often comes through a rational means. I pray about my child's illness, and a friend of mine tells me about a study regarding a similar illness and the effects of a specific supplement or therapy.

Can prayer be tested? Not really. Is prayer scientific? Hardly. Is it irrational? In many cases (to the amazement of many skeptics), no.

When a person prays, they ask for a specific thing, help, insight, support, etc... from a god or the universe or whatever. Either the asked for thing manifests or it doesn't. This is just the same as asking a friend for a ride to the store, maybe they can help you maybe they cannot... the response is conditional on the relationship. Most Agnostics and atheists say prayer is a joke because either there is no God, or he is not listening. Maybe this is the case, but it does not change the nature of prayer. Prayer as an idea is not irrational. It might be irrational to talk to the air, but if there is indeed someone on the other end of the conversation, the conversation is not irrational. For those who pray, the assumption is that there is a listener who can respond.

Some would say, "Its just as irrational to pray to God as it is to pray to a muscle, since neither are capable of giving an answer." I would agree in general, except that in the case of God (as regards the Bible anyway) He claims that He is real and that He proves it by telling the end from the beginning. If indeed the Bible's prophetic assertions are correct, at least that gives some reason to believe that there is a God... even if it is not a testable hypothesis in the classic sense. I know for certain that my muscles do not purport any manner of ability to tell me about anything.

In the case of crystal balls, ouija, pendulums, water witching, muscle testing, etc, there is always an immediate response, but there is no reason that the asked object should be able to give an answer.

So... I guess I will have to turn this into a new rule:

WTM is not for the discussion of irrational methods of wellness and healing. I am willing to allow discussion of the method and techniques of strict Applied Kinesiology (...which seems to be what Cecac's doctor practices...) as outlined here: http://www.icakusa.com, and in part here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_kinesiology ... but that's all. Strict Applied Kinesiology as I understand it seems to be a type of bio-feedback that is testable, methodic, and rational... as opposed to most "kinesiology / muscle testing."

There are many ways to arrive at conclusions... some better than others:

1) Use scientific method type testing and analysis to determine (for instance) which herb seems to work best for killing bacteria.
I [am uneasy] when fear is used versus wisdom and knowledge.

2) Use a trusted source to give you reliable information: this might include someone with a lot of experience, a person with educational credentials, a person with much success in a specific area, or a person that would have a good reason to want to tell you the truth like a close relative or friend.
One reason [I trust it] is because I have known a Christian doctor at my parents' church since I was a kid and he has always used it.

3) Draw your own conclusions from another person's experience: learning from another person's mistakes. Learning by observing.
what did we do before x-rays and scans and what are they doing to help?
Before we had xrays and scans we had to use other methods to figure out what was going on inside, or we just had no idea. It is amazing how much alternative medicine relies on what allopathic medicine has discovered, or failed to discover as the case may be...

4) Seek answers from a source outside of rational existence. This might seem odd, but it is very common. Many people seek a palm reader so that they can know their future as it stands written in the lines of their hand, many others play with various card or board games specifically designed to divine answers to specific questions or to simply tell the future.

...there are arguably other possibilities as well...

The question you might ask if you have trouble with any method is, "Into which category of drawing conclusions does method this fall?"

1) Is there repeated, falsifiable testing going on with muscle testing? No, just a yes or a no to a specific question. So we don't have scientific method.

2) Is there a trusted source of information giving us the answer? No, we have a muscle giving us the answer...

3) Is it possible to get this information from watching a friend succeed or fail any of the tests? No, we have to ask the muscles.

4) Is there an answer found by presuming upon some indicator outside of rational understanding. Yes. Somehow, the muscles sense the intent and nature of the question being asked and give a definite answer.

There is no understood mechanism by which the muscles might be able to tell what is in the practitioner's hand, or what the practitioner is saying, but the muscles always give a definite answer to the practitioner. Where is the answer coming from? We cannot really tell. Is there an actual answer? Yes, this has been verified with a semi-rigorous scientific method type test (http://www.holisticdental.org/muscletestcomparison.html). Is the answer true? Well this can also be verified... by a different method, but it must be verified every time since we do not know where the answer is coming from or by which mechanism.

Many people rely heavily on "super-rational" insight, however, it is by its very nature untestable. The only way one might verify a super-rational source is to test it against measurable events: for instance, if a palm reader could list all her predictions, and all of them came true... we could, with some amount of safety trust her next prediction... the problem with super-rational sources is that, to my knowledge, very few have ever passed the 100% test.

So, if the question is: "Is muscle testing / kinesiology / strength testing rational?" The answer is, "No." It does give definite (but not necessarily true) answers sometimes for some people, but the method of gaining understanding is not reliable unless one can find a practitioner with a 100% "true answers" history.

If the question is, "Is muscle testing / kinesiology / strength testing divination?" Well, that is a question for another forum... ;)

It is easy to make the mistake of thinking that alternative medicine is all the same bunch of stuff. The FDA states clearly that only drugs can cure diseases, and "alternative medicine" roughly means anything that disagrees with that claim. That is a lot of open territory. There is some good out there, and probably a lot of bad... do your research, look before you leap, and if my opinion means anything, don't trust answers from thin air...

: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: Momofone December 27, 2007, 05:19:41 AM
I've never heard of this EFT to really say much about it, except what I've read here.  But, what I've read so far on this thread reminds me of two things: 

1)  Maslow's dogs (don't think I spelled that right) - but the premise with the tapping of the shoulder reminded me of the bell going off before the dogs were fed....  It caused the dogs to start drooling whenever they heard a bell, whether they were being fed or not.  Conditioning.

2)  The other thing it reminded me of was how we are supposed to take control of our thought life - which also reminded me of how MP preaches that we are supposed to consider ourselves dead to sin, even though our flesh is still alive. 

"I am dead to that piece of pie!!!"  Well, ok.  Maybe that is an oversimplification of the EFT process.  ;) ;D   All I've gleaned about it so far was the experiences and things others have written about here.  But, I thought it was sorta funny.  Speaking of taking hold of your thought patterns.......  I have some rather strange ones some times!!! :D

: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: AndysJess December 27, 2007, 09:11:22 AM
It just seems weird to me to be depending on myself for emotional freedom.  One thing I have learned in my short life is that I, in and of myself, am the most undependable creature.  Any kind of freedom has to come from the Lord, right?  Otherwise, we are accepting and practicing humanism.

Just my .02
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: SC December 27, 2007, 05:01:23 PM
After going through their free book, it appears that it is a lymphatic stimulation technique. Skin brushing, IMO, is a more effective lymphatic support. However, the technique described with EFT is easier to do in various circumstances/situations as it can be done fully clothed and by tapping rather than with a brush and without clothing.

The belief in meridians is not based on anatomical science but a belief system based in eastern traditional (alternative) medicine which was developed before the human anatomy had been dissected and understood. I believe that the reason meridian stimulation/activation is effective is because it helps to clear congested lymph glands -- not because it allows 'energy' to 'flow' -- unless you count lymph glands opening up as energy flowing.

As far as the chanting and speaking words as you go through the motions, I believe that the rush of wellbeing that comes over people when their lymph system is stimulated (this is even discussed on the skin brushing thread) tends to reinforce the hope that the words are being addressed physically. So, it isn't so much that the words are doing anything -- or are even required (he says they aren't always) -- but rather that it helps the participant be encouraged that he is improving.

I'm not surprised that people are seeing positive results. The lymphatic system is how the body rids itself of all sorts of toxins that cause a multitude of symptoms. Stimulating lymph glands -- especially those that are congested and not working well -- will give noticeable relief. Even people who are without symptoms should experience positive results, IMO.

Does this have anything to do with the emotions or spiritual healing or healing of memories or anything along those lines? Not in my book. God made our bodies with the wonderful ability to rebuild and rebound given the proper tools -- even when we mistake this natural occurrence for something else. Just as a poor physical condition can exacerbate certain conditions, improving the physical condition will help improve other conditions -- physical, emotional, mental, etc.

These things seem more like normal outcomes to me rather than a 'miraculous cure.' If they are used as part of a systematic plan to improve the overall condition, I can see how a person could become quite pleased with the improvements. For example, if it were used to correct a physical ailment that was affected by diet and the person refused to keep the proper foods available in the home, I would think the effect would be nullified by the continued poor food choices.

Just as many people are hoping for a magic pill or potion, we all would like to be instantaneously restored physically. This does happen for some. For others, it is a process of learning to make better choices and take care of what we have been given. Some of the things we will need to do will require self-control, patience and a willingness to learn. For most people, it is just easier to go for a quick fix.

I don't think this method is a quick fix. I don't think it is miraculous. I do think that it can be used to open doors to dangerous spiritual practices if the user believes lies. It is likely a useful tool to clear lymphatic congestion, especially for someone that has been dealing with toxins, cleanses, etc. as part of an overall change in their diet/lifestyle.

Just my $.02
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: healthyinOhio December 27, 2007, 05:09:28 PM

1)  Maslow's dogs (don't think I spelled that right)

I think you are thinking of Pavlov's dogs.  Unfortunately, I majored in psychology  pre-salvation.  ::)
: Re: Emotional Freedom Technique [EFT]: Founded by Gary Craig
: Momofone December 28, 2007, 04:45:45 AM
PAVLOV!!!  Yeah, that's it!  I've slept since I read about it. 

The "Meridian" stuff being lymph nodes sorta makes sense, SC.  I had a chiro get on to me because I wore underwire bras.  He said it could exacerbate cancer problems since it puts pressure on lymph nodes under there, and doesn't allow them to function properly.  At the time, he used that word, "Meridian".  What did I know from China, at the time??? ???  Still learning, in fact.

Anyway - I'm off to chant......  "I'm dead to all this fudge my mother sent meeeee..."  tee, hee! ;) :D