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Natural Health => Nutrition & Food => Fermented Foods => : ForeverGirl July 06, 2006, 08:19:46 AM

: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ForeverGirl July 06, 2006, 08:19:46 AM
Question for you geniuses out there...

I've been making kefir and if I let it sit a little longer than necessary it separates and will have an inch of clear liquid that looks and smells like whey? Is it whey?

I want to make sauerkraut today and my recipe (Nourishing Traditions) calls for whey. Does anyone know if this clear liquid stuff from my kefir is whey and if it will work to make sauerkraut

On the subject of fermenting...

I have sour dough bread in the oven, Kumbucha in the laundry closet, kefir in the pantry, homemade chedder goat cheese stacked up in the fridge, and sauerkraut coming...

 8)

: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys July 06, 2006, 08:31:42 AM
Hey, your list sounds SO familiar! Just last evening I was naming off my current list to my husband.  :) Its fun!

Yes, your "clear liquid stuff" is whey (in fact, using kefir is my easiest, "favoritest" way to make whey) and the "curds" are delicious good-for-you cream cheese! You can use the whey for any recipe where Sally Fallon asks for whey.

As soon as my cabbage in the garden is ready, I plan to make kraut too!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ForeverGirl July 06, 2006, 08:35:26 AM
Thanks a bunch...

So if I strain the curds through a cheese cloth and hang or press them it will be a cheese?

I've just been shaking it all back together and using it to make smoothies in the morning - very good!

Thanks,

Rebekah
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Chickory Chick July 06, 2006, 08:39:16 AM
Thanks a bunch...

So if I strain the curds through a cheese cloth and hang or press them it will be a cheese?

I've just been shaking it all back together and using it to make smoothies in the morning - very good!

Thanks,

Rebekah

Yes, it is what is called Kefir Cheese!  :) Kefir is my quickest "whey" of making whey also!  :)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys July 06, 2006, 08:39:57 AM
Yes, we usually just line a strainer with a cloth and let it drip in the refrig overnight. It could probably be done is less time, that's just my way of sticking one thing away for awhile so I don't get too many projects piled up! ;D
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 06, 2006, 03:15:19 PM
Is whey preferable to the extra salt you could add (also in Nourishing Traditions book)??  I mostly used salt last year when making sauerdraut, just because I didn't have the whey, but made some batches with whey.  I didn't see much difference but am wondering if anyone knows if one is actually considered better than the other. 

Last year we made a lot of sauerkraut with RED cabbage - YUM!!  And pretty too!!  And I find my red cabbage has less bugs to deal with in the garden so is easier to grow.

Also, we don't have refrigeration.  Can whey be stored at room temperature and if so for how long?  Interestingly, the Maker's Diet book makes reference to overall health being poorer since the advent of refrigeration, and we have found since our refrig. died a slow and painful death over a year ago that we have had far far less colds/flus and NO stomach bugs........ ?????   
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: mishy July 06, 2006, 05:23:46 PM
Wow!  That is very interesting about not having a fridge.  Hm.  I wonder why.  "Cool" is always the old fashioned method.  So maybe there is something deathly in cold.  :)  We live in the tropics so I wonder what the natives did here.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: SHERRI REEL July 07, 2006, 05:42:39 AM
I'M IGNORANT OF THIS SUBJECT AND NOW MY LITTLE ONE IS ON AN ANTIBIOTIC SO I'M INTERESTED IN KEFIR,AND WHEY, AND DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE RAW MILK TO MAKE IT?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: SHERRI REEL July 07, 2006, 06:38:42 AM
WHAT IS KUMBUCHA ?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: queentea July 07, 2006, 06:39:24 AM
No you don't have to have Raw milk to make kefir.  Here in Ohio, we can't get Raw milk but I have found a milk that is not homogenized, but is pasteurized, so I buy that and use it.  You can use store bought milk, I think skim is best to avoid the Homogenization thing.  I got my kefir grains on ebay for $10 including shipping.  There is a whole thread on Kefir and Beka did a great article on NGJ this month about yogurt and kefir with instructions on how to make both.  Happy keffiring ;D
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: SHERRI REEL July 07, 2006, 06:43:17 AM
THANK YOU QUEENTEA I'LL CHECK THAT OUT P.S. E-  ME ABOUT THE NAME [QUEENTEA].
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ForeverGirl July 07, 2006, 07:34:18 AM
Sherri, if you child is on anti-biotics, kefir is great, but go buy a pro-biotic as well... you can get some kind of pro-biotic at any healthfood store. The biggest problem with taking anti-biotics is that they knock out all the good GI flora, and there is nothing to keep yeast overgrowth from occuring. Drinking kefir is good but does not deliver near the amount of flora that the GI needs in an "anti-biotic" situation... anti-biotics are un-natural, and it would be otherwise almost impossible to loose all your GI flora in a few days! Beeyoutiful.com's Tummy Tuneup8 is really good for this type of situation, but you should try to get something today if you can.

--gabe (...on Beka's computer...)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 07, 2006, 01:54:44 PM
Are acidophilus and pro biotics the same thing?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt July 07, 2006, 03:15:49 PM
Are acidophilus and pro biotics the same thing?

Acidophilus is one of many strains of probiotics.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: SHERRI REEL July 07, 2006, 06:19:38 PM
Thank you Gabe, I do have some acidophilus that I have been using is that enough or should I get something else also?
Sherri
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt July 07, 2006, 06:22:21 PM
WHAT IS KUMBUCHA ?

Sorry, I missed this earlier.  It's been a crazy week. 
CLICK HERE (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,832.0.html) for the thread on Kombucha.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: titus2wam July 08, 2006, 04:20:28 AM
Rebekah, i wish i had read this yesterday, i have a gallon of whey in the fridge. I would have sent some home with you last night. ;D If you need more let me know.

IN HIM
Jeri
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ForeverGirl July 08, 2006, 05:31:46 AM
Goodmorning! And thanks! I would have called to see if you had whey but it LOOKED like I had some, and I wanted to find out.

I made sauerkraut on Thursday, and it's looking really good. Got some hand made beef bratwursts from a really neat Mexican butcher guy (he practically gave them to me!) and now I want to make mustard...

I LOVE MUSTARD. I mean, some people are addicted to coffee - I'm addicted to mustard, and I'm looking for more foods to eat it with ::) - hence the sauerkraut and brats. ;D

Rebekah
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: dara July 08, 2006, 07:08:09 AM
Make your own soft pretzels! Your fam will love you!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ForeverGirl July 08, 2006, 08:21:48 AM
Recipe please!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: dara July 08, 2006, 09:44:57 AM
Soon!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: jamie July 09, 2006, 01:35:20 PM
How did you guys ever get to this place. I wish I had someone or a mother like Deb Pearl to spend a weekend or longer with to learn how to get back to nature. anyways can you make yogurt using rice milk or can you use kefir if kids are allergic or intolerant to milk? Also how do you make sauerkraut? I have cleaned up are diet alot but want to really get back to the basics. How do you make it without a refrigerator?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: queentea July 10, 2006, 09:38:53 AM
Can I use the whey from kefir in all the recipes from Nourishing Traditions?  Also, how long does kefir last in the fridge after it has cultured?  I used it in my baked oatmeal and wow it was much better than just milk!  What are some other uses for kefir as my family is not keen on drinking it plain!  I know about the smoothies, but are there other things I can use it for as well?

Thanks again!!
Lisa
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: fish7inTN July 10, 2006, 09:48:15 AM
I made several qts. of the sauerkraut last Sept. and still enjoy it now.  It's much much stronger now but very good - and I dont' even care for sauerkraut!

I highly recommend the corn relish recipe.  It's my favorite.  We've done her pickles and garlic naturally fermented also.

Does anyone know if the garlic will lose some of it's medicinal properties when fermented like that?  They dont' taste the same at all.  I read recently that cooking will kill much of the "healthiness" of garlic and we prefer it grilled till smooshie.  It kind of bummed me out to read that as it sure is easier to stomach and make the kids eat it when it's soft and overcooked.

: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt July 10, 2006, 11:19:46 AM
Can I use the whey from kefir in all the recipes from Nourishing Traditions?  Also, how long does kefir last in the fridge after it has cultured?  I used it in my baked oatmeal and wow it was much better than just milk!  What are some other uses for kefir as my family is not keen on drinking it plain!  I know about the smoothies, but are there other things I can use it for as well?

Thanks again!!
Lisa

There are four or five other Kefir threads with lots of ideas.  Just type "Kefir" in the search box up top on the home page and they'll come up.  ;)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt July 11, 2006, 06:09:00 AM
Recipe please!

It's posted here. (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php?topic=1226.0)

Thanks Dara.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 11, 2006, 05:22:36 PM
How did you guys ever get to this place. I wish I had someone or a mother like Deb Pearl to spend a weekend or longer with to learn how to get back to nature. anyways can you make yogurt using rice milk or can you use kefir if kids are allergic or intolerant to milk? Also how do you make sauerkraut? I have cleaned up are diet alot but want to really get back to the basics. How do you make it without a refrigerator?

My mother raised me on Lucky Charms cereal, Weaver's frozen fried chicken and steakums with white bread.  And now I live in the woods, have a great garden, eat well, have no refrig. and love this hard working life.  You just have to start, do one new thing at a time, and read a lot.  Start with the Nourishing Traditions book.  You could start with others, but eventually if you have found this forum, you will end up with that book anyway, so don't waste your time.  It will make you nuts, but just take one thing at a time from it.  Soon you'll be as whacky as the rest of us, trying to get back to where our ancestors were hundreds or thousands of years ago in the food preparation department of life.  Nuts isn't it???
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ForeverGirl July 11, 2006, 05:44:08 PM
Yep, and even my mom (Debi Pearl) started somewhere. We learned right along with her.

Rebekah
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 12, 2006, 05:31:50 PM
Yep, and even my mom (Debi Pearl) started somewhere. We learned right along with her.

Rebekah

And my guess it was great fun for her and you! 

I love batting new ideas around with my 16 year old daughter in the kitchen.  And my 10 year old and I love learning things about the garden together.  He's in the kitchen too a lot these days, made me some wonderful fresh ground grain pancakes for breakfast the other day.  He even knew enough to make the batter the night before and let them soak .....  ;D ;D ;D 
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys July 13, 2006, 04:04:31 AM
I'm with you on the learning together and batting ideas around! My two oldest seem to catch onto some things as fast as I do and they have really pitched in with all the experimenting, etc. And my hubby- he's been so helpful and encouraging- esp. with new stuff that I'm unsure of trying. So this way of life can be one big, fun family project! Everyday!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 13, 2006, 08:17:05 AM
I want to make my own fermented veggies using whey before I do the salt trick.  I don't have any access to raw milk in my area.  I did find some whey protein at my local health food store, today.  Is this the same thing?  It is like powdered and it is 90% protein and I have no clue as to what the other 10% is.  Do you think that I could sprinkle some of this to get it to ferment?  Or do I have to use the raw liquid whey.  Anyone know?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: mishy July 13, 2006, 11:07:24 PM
I don't know about the powdered, but do you buy plain yoghurt??  I just pour off the whey from the top of it to get my whey. 
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 13, 2006, 11:42:35 PM
I want to make my own fermented veggies using whey before I do the salt trick.  I don't have any access to raw milk in my area.  I did find some whey protein at my local health food store, today.  Is this the same thing?  It is like powdered and it is 90% protein and I have no clue as to what the other 10% is.  Do you think that I could sprinkle some of this to get it to ferment?  Or do I have to use the raw liquid whey.  Anyone know?

I do the same as mishy.  You don't need raw milk, just yogurt.  And you can drain it off the top of the yogurt for a little whey, or stain all the yogurt through cheesecloth, hang it over  a bowl overnight, and get lots more whey.  AND the remaining stuff is cream cheese.  We chop herbs and garlic up, mix it with the cream cheese and have our own very inexpensive Boursin cheese (??Spelling, it cost's $16/pound here!) for crackers!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 14, 2006, 02:12:58 AM
Thanks, ladies for your help!  That's what I'll do.  Here, I 've been giving my cats the creamy liquid!! :)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Soñadora July 16, 2006, 04:57:22 PM
Sorry! I didn't see that it had already been mentioned.  ::) LOL!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 18, 2006, 08:10:53 AM
Okay, just to make sure before I do this.  After your fermenting veggies sit for a few days, it says to move to cold storage.  This is referring to a dark and cool place, not a refrigerator, right?  Also, after you open it and eat some, should the leftovers be stored in a fridge, or is room temperature still the way to go on this?  Thanks everyone for your help! :)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: dara July 19, 2006, 10:14:42 AM
I just made goat milk ricotta for the first time (yeah! my boys can't wait to eat CHEESE!) and I'm wondering if the liquid left behind is whey. Any of you know? Thanks.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 19, 2006, 10:17:16 AM
Okay, just to make sure before I do this.  After your fermenting veggies sit for a few days, it says to move to cold storage.  This is referring to a dark and cool place, not a refrigerator, right?  Also, after you open it and eat some, should the leftovers be stored in a fridge, or is room temperature still the way to go on this?  Thanks everyone for your help! :)
I do just the cold storage, not the frig.  As for after they are open, cold storage or frig. works best, though mine sit a few days out in room temperature.  We usually eat them fast enough that it hasn't been a problem.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 20, 2006, 11:08:07 AM
Okay, I am going to be asking a million questions on this.  I seem to be lacto-fermented handicapped! :)  I grated my carrots and my ginger and put in the salt.  Then, I opened my new and very expensive container of organic goat's milk yogurt and I had NO whey.  I thought, NO WAY!!  So, I had to use the extra salt :-\  Where did my whey go?  I always have some with my cow's milk yogurt.
Also, I didn't get much juice out of the pounding of the carrots, so I hope it will still work.  Thanks for all of your help, fermenting experts.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Chickory Chick July 20, 2006, 11:10:29 AM

Then, I opened my new and very expensive container of organic goat's milk yogurt and I had NO whey.  I thought, NO WAY!!

 :D ROTFLOL! ;D

Ok that for some reason just hit my funny bone!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 20, 2006, 11:13:15 AM


 :D ROTFLOL! ;D

Ok that for some reason just hit my funny bone!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :) :) :) :)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: InEverything July 22, 2006, 08:52:02 AM
MUSTARD!

My six year old was sitting at the table raving about how much he loves mustard and I thought of Beka and what she had said about it.  Can you share a good recipe? It would be a good homeschool project for him.

I remembered that mustard is really good with peanut butter.  Mix it and eat it with a spoon or on a sandwich.  This is my mom's favorite sandwich. A good alternative to sweeter PB creations.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: SC July 22, 2006, 09:07:10 AM
I remembered that mustard is really good with peanut butter.  Mix it and eat it with a spoon or on a sandwich.  This is my mom's favorite sandwich. A good alternative to sweeter PB creations.

I'll have to applaud you from the sidelines, here. You've gone beyond some line in my brain that will not allow my tastebuds entrance. The voice in my head is going, "That's just WRONG!"

Enjoy! :P :P :P :P :P
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt July 22, 2006, 09:43:36 AM
I remembered that mustard is really good with peanut butter.  Mix it and eat it with a spoon or on a sandwich.  This is my mom's favorite sandwich. A good alternative to sweeter PB creations.
  Okay, I'm going to have to be honest.  I'm pretty skeptical.   :P
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: InEverything July 22, 2006, 02:22:05 PM
Well, you know how healthy fats are a must for most vegetables! The peanut butter gives you the fat to help digest the fat soluble vitamins in the mustard!   Do I sound like an expert or what?  Did I convince you yet? ;)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: SC July 22, 2006, 02:52:47 PM
NOPE. :-X  But, I think you're very brave. ;D
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: craig7 July 24, 2006, 01:05:28 AM
Yes, I need to start somewhere, but I just found this site and feel a little overwhelmed.  There are some things nutritionally that I have been doing for awhile trying to be healthy and "get back to basics," but there seems to be so much more to learn and implement.  If I were to start "somewhere", where would that be?????  We use only whole wheat flour, only raw sugar, eat lots of veggies from our garden, use SuperMom, etc.  would changing dairy intake be next????  adding this "kefir" thing everyone talks about???  Ugh... any suggestions.  I do have the Traditions book, but have never read it!!!!  It came in the mail at the end of my 5 pregnancy and suddenly I got really busy!!!!!  Suggestions Please!!! 
Laura
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 24, 2006, 02:47:17 AM
Okay, I am going to be asking a million questions on this.  I seem to be lacto-fermented handicapped! :)  I grated my carrots and my ginger and put in the salt.
Also, I didn't get much juice out of the pounding of the carrots, so I hope it will still work.  Thanks for all of your help, fermenting experts.

Were your carrots fresh?  I have found that using carrots or cabbage that has sat for even a few days produces far less juice.  I have made sauerkraut from grocery store cabbage when ours was used up and we were desperate for more.  It worked but didn't taste near as good.

Had some of our first batch of kraut from this year the other night.  It had only sat out at room temp. for 3 days but my kids were estatic.  It wasn't near as good as it gets when it sits for a few weeks.  Maybe it was just not having it for several months now.

I also made another batch of the ginger ale drink from Nour.Trad. but mistakenly put in lemon juice instead of lime.  We liked it "whey" better then with the lime juice.  No one, including myself, has dared try the beet kvass yet ...... it just sounds wrong. :)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: LoveSunflowers July 24, 2006, 05:07:38 AM
The beet kvass isn't nearly as scary as it sounds. Just don't smell it first! :) I wouldn't want to drink a large glass of it but I can handle a couple of ounces in the morning.  ;)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt July 24, 2006, 07:23:37 AM
If I were to start "somewhere", where would that be????? 

Start with the thread "Begin/Start a Healthier Lifestyle/Diet". (http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,1260.0.html)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: craig7 July 25, 2006, 12:58:44 AM
Thank you for the direction in looking at the how to start a healthy lifestyle thread!!!!  It was helpful.  I have never used a chat site before and am still trying to figure out exactly how to do it.  It seems to take me forever to get anywhere because there is so much to read, learn, and follow different threads, etc.   
Laura
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: diaperswyper July 26, 2006, 03:59:01 AM
O.k. i want to make raw sauerkraut, i have the cabbage, the sea salt and whey.( will the whey off of homemade, raw yoghurt work?) But it calls for cumin seeds and mustard seeds and all i have is ground mustard powder and ground cumin. Will that work?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds July 26, 2006, 05:04:30 AM
O.k. i want to make raw sauerkraut, i have the cabbage, the sea salt and whey.( will the whey off of homemade, raw yoghurt work?) But it calls for cumin seeds and mustard seeds and all i have is ground mustard powder and ground cumin. Will that work?
You don't have to put in the cumin and mustard. We just use cabbage, salt and whey.   I don't know about using the  ground seeds, if you want to put them in.  I wouldn't think that would work, but it is only an opinion. 
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ScottsHelper July 26, 2006, 07:25:38 AM
Sorry to jump in here, but it seems this thread might be the best place to ask about my NT pickles...I made some a few weeks ago, then put them in the fridge.  I decided to try them today.  One of the pickles popped up above the water while fermenting on the counter--that part is all mushy and gross (no mold and not smelly).  Is the whole batch ruined?  I threw that pickle out and tasted another...it was delicious, but then I got a bit concerned that I might be poisioning myself with botulism or somthing!!!  Are my pickles safe to eat?? 

Also, I only used a tiny bit of whey and did not make up the difference with extra salt, because when I tried the ginger carrots in the past with only salt (adding the extra tablespoon as Sally says to do) and they came out sickeningly salty!  Guess I'm now concerned that not following the directions could result in food poisoning!  I know Sally says that you would know it if the food went bad by the smell, but I didn't think you could smell botulism--as I've read in all the precautions with canning foods, how careful you have to be.

Maybe I'm just getting paranoid, but any thoughts would be appreciated!   :)

Heather
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 27, 2006, 07:27:42 AM
Sorry to jump in here, but it seems this thread might be the best place to ask about my NT pickles...I made some a few weeks ago, then put them in the fridge. I decided to try them today. One of the pickles popped up above the water while fermenting on the counter--that part is all mushy and gross (no mold and not smelly). Is the whole batch ruined?

Okay, let me get this straight.  You had the fermented cukes on the counter and one popped above the liquid?  Or, you fermented them, put them in the fridge and one popped up?  I don't know what to say?  I have made the ginger carrots and the sauerkraut with not much juice to cover  it and it tasted fine.  I actually enjoyed the really salty taste.  I'm weird, I know.  I like to lick the extra salt at the bottom of a pretzel bag.  :P  So, I guess that I am used to it.
I have made the pickled cukes this week, too.  Some cukes have risen above the mixture, but I don't think that it is a problem.  However, I don't know since you didn't follow the directions exactly, how safe it would be.  I would do the same thing and eat it anyways.
Botulin toxin is rare, but says that it is more common in canned foods with a low acid level such as beets, asparagus, corn and green beans.  It is also found in fermented fish.  But does not mention fermented veggies.  Just canned veggies and fermented fish.  Also, you will have symptoms in 12-48 hours with double vision, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc.  So if you are fine in a day or so, then it will be okay.  Hope you are still with us!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ScottsHelper July 27, 2006, 09:10:43 AM
 :) Yes, I'm still here among the living! One of the cukes popped up above the liquid while fermenting on the counter.  I'll probably go ahead and eat this batch, and next time I'll probably just stick to the instructions just to be on the safe side!  I used a highly processed cheap sea salt to make these, but once I get ahold of some better salt (healthier), perhaps the saltiness won't be as strong, as I've noticed it tends not to be with the other minerals in the salt diluting the saltiness.

Thanks for the response!

Heather
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 27, 2006, 05:34:35 PM
Okay, now I  have a question about my sliced pickled cucumbers.  I opened the container this evening and as I opened it up, it fizzed and bubbled like soda pop.  Is this normal?  This is the first time that I actually used the whey.  They did smell a little funny, but tasted okay.    Nothing like my carrots.  They smelled like well, carrots, so I don't know.  Anyone?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: ScottsHelper July 28, 2006, 04:05:19 AM
Don't know if that was normal, but, just to let you know, mine did not do that when I opened them the other day.  I had a glass jar that I had placed a piece of plastic wrap on, and then screwed on a plastic lid.  Are your pickles crisp?  Mine were a bit mushy in places.  I did add the dill and mustard (if I remember correctly!) when fermenting, and the pickles had a nice flavor!

I was reading about drinks now, and am determined to try the raspberry drink from NT...it sounds delicious...anyone tried it???

Heather
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio July 28, 2006, 05:38:34 AM
My pickles were surprisingly a little on the soft side, too.  I didn't expect just a couple of days would make them so soft.  Tastes okay, though.  I am trying the drink phase next, too.  Don't know which one, yet!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio August 01, 2006, 02:48:39 PM
Okay, my first batch of fermented ginger carrots were wonderful.  But my cukes and my second batch of carrots smelled so horrible.  I kept it at room temp for three days, but room temp in my house has been up to 90 degrees.  I detest everyone with air conditioning! ;D  Is this the reason my veggies are smelling horrible?  Should the heat have anything to do with this?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthybratt August 01, 2006, 03:17:35 PM
I detest everyone with air conditioning! ;D 

I'm sorry.   :-\  If it makes you feel any better we didn't have air last year.   ;D
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: sven August 09, 2006, 11:31:06 AM
....After your fermenting veggies sit for a few days, it says to move to cold storage.  This is referring to a dark and cool place, not a refrigerator, right?...

I do the fridge thing as I don't really have cold storage in the summertime hear in Tennessee.  They do just fine!  But cold, dark, root cellar type storage would be the best!  I think 40 degrees is the ideal but don't quote me on that.  It doesn't matter that much.

Kristin
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: sven August 09, 2006, 11:39:26 AM
I just made goat milk ricotta for the first time (yeah! my boys can't wait to eat CHEESE!) and I'm wondering if the liquid left behind is whey. Any of you know? Thanks.

Since Ricotta is made by heating whey to a high temp (180 or more), you cannot use it for fermenting.  The good bacteria is dead.  But that is the price you pay for real ricotta!  Hope you all enjoyed it.

Kristin
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio April 11, 2007, 08:04:54 AM
I have a question for all you sauerkraut makers.  Did you shred your cabbage or grate it?  I have made it in the past and didn't work very well and it was grated.  So, I am just about to make mine right now when the NT directions say to "shred".  Do you think this will make any bit of difference in the sauerkraut?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Nickole April 11, 2007, 08:20:13 AM
I have a question for all you sauerkraut makers.  Did you shred your cabbage or grate it?  I have made it in the past and didn't work very well and it was grated.  So, I am just about to make mine right now when the NT directions say to "shred".  Do you think this will make any bit of difference in the sauerkraut?

I grated it in my food processor with the grater attachment, but that pretty much shreds the heck out of it.  Also my first batch, I left the blade in there too (der) so it shredded it and THEN chopped it.  So it was pretty fine.  Tasted wonderful.   
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio April 11, 2007, 08:24:19 AM
Thanks, Nickole.  I will go ahead and try grating it, again.   ;)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys April 11, 2007, 08:38:20 AM
I have a question for all you sauerkraut makers.  Did you shred your cabbage or grate it?  I have made it in the past and didn't work very well and it was grated.  So, I am just about to make mine right now when the NT directions say to "shred".  Do you think this will make any bit of difference in the sauerkraut?

I shredded mine, but it was a fairly fine shred. It worked good, but I would like to try grating as it might be easier to get juice out of it. We had to pound the shredded quite a while.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: smartmommato4 April 11, 2007, 01:19:42 PM
Honestly..I've made it both ways and by far perfer the shredded method vs. the grated method.  Shredding definitely takes longer to ferment than grating..but the end result is much better when shredding the cabbage.  When I shred mine..I just pound the tar out of it before putting it in the jar just to make it extra juicy.  Yum..now you've got me craving so good ol' homemade sauerkraut.   
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Nickole April 11, 2007, 01:25:24 PM
I think I'm confused about the difference between shredded and grated.  To me it seems like the same thing, no?  I grated with my food processor like I said, but the end product also looked shredded to me.   
:-\  Does grated cabbage look different than shredded, and how so?  Sorry if this is a really stupid question.   ??? 
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio April 11, 2007, 03:06:16 PM

:-\  Does grated cabbage look different than shredded, and how so?  Sorry if this is a really stupid question.   ??? 

Well, as far as my home ec. knowledge goes, which may not get me very far... :D  Grating it would mean taking it to a "cheese" grater and grating it that way.(that is the way I HAD been doing it)  Shredding it would be taking a knife to it and cutting it very thin.  Am I wrong?

This time I used my food processor and "shredded" it, but they were really small fine pieces, so we will see.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: hollyolly123 April 11, 2007, 03:20:06 PM
For what it's worth, I've seen garlic shredders in the Lehman's non electric catalog.  You might try www.lehmans.com (I think that's it).
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys April 12, 2007, 05:45:48 AM

:-\  Does grated cabbage look different than shredded, and how so?  Sorry if this is a really stupid question.   ??? 

Well, as far as my home ec. knowledge goes, which may not get me very far... :D  Grating it would mean taking it to a "cheese" grater and grating it that way.(that is the way I HAD been doing it)  Shredding it would be taking a knife to it and cutting it very thin.  Am I wrong?

This time I used my food processor and "shredded" it, but they were really small fine pieces, so we will see.

I don't know that you're wrong, healthyinohio, my understanding of shredded vs. grated is probably wrong. :-\ I have several different cones with my KitchenAid attachment and I always considered the finest one a "grate" and the next bigger a "shred". That is what I was referring to in my earlier post... Someone set me straight!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio April 12, 2007, 06:44:06 AM


I don't know that you're wrong, healthyinohio, my understanding of shredded vs. grated is probably wrong. :-\ I have several different cones with my KitchenAid attachment and I always considered the finest one a "grate" and the next bigger a "shred". That is what I was referring to in my earlier post... Someone set me straight!

Yeah, it sure would make sense if the author of a recipe would specify grate and shred FOR a processor or grate or shred using a knife.  I suppose both would be two entirely different things, huh?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: here-n-there-a-little April 12, 2007, 09:51:34 AM
I looked up Grate and Shred in Wiktionary.  Grate seems to refer to what you get when you grate cheese using a grater.  Shred refers more to long thin strips.  Hope that helps.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Chickory Chick May 31, 2007, 07:11:24 AM
I have all this great whey from my kefir, so I bought some cabbage at Aldi's today....the problem is that I loaned my NT book to a friend (almost a year ago) and dont have the recipe.  If someone has a moment would you mind sending it to me?  Thanks!

Kay

OH.....I cant remember whether you are supposed to seal the jar  or put cheese cloth over the top.....also I have sea salt that isnt fine (its bulky), do I need to grind it or should I just stick it in as is!

K
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: NotLuckyButBlessed June 07, 2007, 06:20:37 AM
I just made goat milk ricotta for the first time (yeah! my boys can't wait to eat CHEESE!) and I'm wondering if the liquid left behind is whey. Any of you know? Thanks.

Since Ricotta is made by heating whey to a high temp (180 or more), you cannot use it for fermenting.  The good bacteria is dead.  But that is the price you pay for real ricotta!  Hope you all enjoyed it.

Kristin

I know this was posted awhile back but I am hoping someone will see and tell me, as ignorant as I am on this topic of cheesemaking. I made chevre  from our goat milk. The directions on the culture said to pasteurize first then heat to 86 degrees. I did not pasteurize it, but while heating it got to a little over 100 degrees (After reading Rebeka's post about cheese tasting better and lasting longer I will probably pasteurize next time -- opinions?).

That said, is the liquid I poured off my cheese and what is dripping through now whey?  ??? Can I use it for fermented veggies? If I pasteurize it will it still have the enzymes I need for fermented veggies? I don't mean to sound like too big of a dork but I have only read about whey from yogurt. :P
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lewisquiverfull June 18, 2007, 05:55:34 PM
You all have got me craving sauerkraut! I don't have a NT book, could you post the recipe for sauerkraut, or pm me? PLEASE!!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Texas Girl. June 18, 2007, 06:04:34 PM
I was just thinking about making sauerkraut in the next day or two!  I was planning on buying a bag of coleslaw mix in the produce section of my grocery store (the lazy way out).  Anybody know why you couldn't do that? 
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: herbalmom June 18, 2007, 06:08:22 PM
I was just thinking about making sauerkraut in the next day or two!  I was planning on buying a bag of coleslaw mix in the produce section of my grocery store (the lazy way out).  Anybody know why you couldn't do that? 

Those bags can be quite old before you buy them. It might work but it could very easily have a high bacteria &/or mold spore count & ruin your sauerkraut. HTH Blessings ~herbalmom
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Texas Girl. June 18, 2007, 06:10:43 PM
Nourishing Traditions Sauerkraut, p. 92
Makes 1 quart
1 medium cabbage, cored and shredded
1 tablespoon caraway seeds
1 tablespoon sea salt
4 tablespoons whey (if not available, use an additional 1 tablespoon salt)
In a bowl, mix cabbage with caraway seeds, sea salt and whey.  Pound with a wooden pounder or a meat hammer for about 10 minutes to release juices.  Place in a quart size wide mouth mason jar and press down firmly with a pounder or meat hammer until juices come at least to the top of the cabbage.  The top of the cabbage should be at least 1 inch below the top of the jar.  Cover tightly and keep at room temp for about 3 days before transferring to cold storage.  The sauerkraut may be eaten immediately but improves with age.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: cecac June 19, 2007, 04:23:35 AM
I've done the above recipe, but the first time we couldn't eat it with the caraway seeds.  Very overpowering taste (at least to us).  I just left those out the next time and went with a straight whey/salt mixture.  We all really like it. 

Cara
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: queentea June 19, 2007, 04:58:53 AM
I've done the above recipe, but the first time we couldn't eat it with the caraway seeds.  Very overpowering taste (at least to us).  I just left those out the next time and went with a straight whey/salt mixture.  We all really like it. 

Cara

I think it all depends on your taste.  We made it just like the recipe and loved it...but when I buy kraut, I buy the bavarian style with the caraway seeds in it, so that is our taste.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: NotLuckyButBlessed June 26, 2007, 02:29:56 PM


I made sauerkraut. I followed the NT recipe but cut back by half on the caraway seeds as per several comments on here. At first it tastes fine, but then it has a very bitter taste. Any ideas on why? I let it sit out for 2 days. Should I let it out longer? Any way to "fix" it?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys July 10, 2007, 10:44:28 AM


I made sauerkraut. I followed the NT recipe but cut back by half on the caraway seeds as per several comments on here. At first it tastes fine, but then it has a very bitter taste. Any ideas on why? I let it sit out for 2 days. Should I let it out longer? Any way to "fix" it?

I found with ours the bitter taste goes away with time.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: NotLuckyButBlessed July 10, 2007, 11:57:51 AM
I did leave it out longer and it did, indeed, become yummy. However, one jar turned goaty. Gross. I made it with goat whey. One was wonderful and one was gross. Same whey, same batch, different jars. Go figure.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: naturalgirl February 19, 2008, 02:46:27 PM
What is the difference between whey and buttermilk?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys February 19, 2008, 02:50:50 PM
What is the difference between whey and buttermilk?

Buttermilk is the liquid left after making butter and whey is the yellowish liquid that can be strained from yogurt, kefir, or raw milk left sit at room temp. for 3-4 days. Hope I made sense. :)
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio February 19, 2008, 02:52:50 PM

Buttermilk is the liquid left after making butter

I thought buttermilk was actually a cultured milk product?  :-\  Are there two different buttermilks?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys February 19, 2008, 03:04:00 PM

Buttermilk is the liquid left after making butter

I thought buttermilk was actually a cultured milk product?  :-\  Are there two different buttermilks?
Not sure what you mean by "a cultured milk product". :-\
But if you leave your cream at room temp. for 8 hrs to sour and then use that to make butter your buttermilk will be cultured. Sorry if I'm confusing. :P :-[
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: healthyinOhio February 19, 2008, 04:47:44 PM

Not sure what you mean by "a cultured milk product". :-\
But if you leave your cream at room temp. for 8 hrs to sour and then use that to make butter your buttermilk will be cultured. Sorry if I'm confusing. :P :-[

I think I know what you are saying, and it truly does make sense.  But I still think there is a bit of difference between the "whey" left over from butter and actually buttermilk.  Maybe this is what NLBB is trying to figure out?  I only made the mention of it, because you can buy buttermilk cultures at a co-op or on ebay, and it is a drink.  So, that made me think it was an entirely different thing than the leftover butter stuff. KWIM? ;) :D
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: lotsaboys February 19, 2008, 05:16:46 PM

Not sure what you mean by "a cultured milk product". :-\
But if you leave your cream at room temp. for 8 hrs to sour and then use that to make butter your buttermilk will be cultured. Sorry if I'm confusing. :P :-[

I think I know what you are saying, and it truly does make sense.  But I still think there is a bit of difference between the "whey" left over from butter and actually buttermilk.  Maybe this is what NLBB is trying to figure out?  I only made the mention of it, because you can buy buttermilk cultures at a co-op or on ebay, and it is a drink.  So, that made me think it was an entirely different thing than the leftover butter stuff. KWIM? ;) :D

Ahh, you make sense too! ;) I did some fast googling and learned something I didn't know before. It makes sense too. :D Lemme know what you think.

From this website: http://homecooking.about.com/od/cookingfaqs/f/faqbuttermilk.htm
Old-fashioned homemade buttermilk is the slightly sour, residual liquid which remains after butter is churned, ie. milk from the butter or buttermilk. It was usually flecked with tiny spots of sweet, creamy butter that didn't quite make it to the top to be skimmed. The flavor of buttermilk is reminiscent of yogurt and most people prefer it well-chilled. You'll find it is slightly thicker in texture than regular milk but not as heavy as cream. It takes one gallon of milk to yield one-half pint of true buttermilk.

Nowadays, most commercial buttermilk is made by adding a lactic acid bacteria culture to pasteurized sweet whole milk or, more commonly skim milk or non-fat milk, and it may or may not have added butter flecks.


From this site: http://www.mrbreakfast.com/ask.asp?askid=18
"In the old days," she said rhythmically pumping her fantasy stick up and down, "buttermilk was a byproduct of making butter. People would churn and churn and churn. The result of churning milk was butter and liquid. This liquid byproduct was buttermilk."

"These days," she said sadly, her lips softly pouting, "the buttermilk we buy at the grocery store is made by adding a lactic acid bacteria culture to skim or non-fat milk. The milk is then fermented to make modern buttermilk."

And then Wikipedia's explanation:
http://en.wiki
pedia.org/wiki/Buttermilk
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Aura December 08, 2008, 09:05:55 AM
Since Ricotta is made by heating whey to a high temp (180 or more), you cannot use it for fermenting.  The good bacteria is dead.  But that is the price you pay for real ricotta!  Hope you all enjoyed it.

Kristin
Uh oh. I didn't know this! I made some mozzarella cheese and then (attempted) ricotta. I just made a mess with the ricotta, but I had lots of whey so I used that for sauerkraut (NT recipe)...I thought it turned out good. It tasted fine. Nobody got sick.  :-\  I still have leftover whey and I was going to make some more sauerkraut. Maybe I shouldn't use this whey  ???

Would've been nice to have that info in the book.  >:(  Or did I just miss that?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Aura January 24, 2009, 04:57:35 PM
OH NO!! Have I ruined my sauerkraut by using iodized salt?!  :-[ Please, someone tell me it's still okay! I JUST made sauerkraut today out of 2 heads green cabbage and 2 heads of red cabbage, but I was out of sea salt and so I just used plain old table salt, except it wasn't PLAIN salt, it was iodized salt. Then, as I was researching info on yogurt, I found this...

3. Sauerkraut:
...A traditional recipe follows:
Ingredients:
1 Fresh Medium Cabbage (red or green)
2 Tablespoons Pickling Salt (Please no iodine, it will kill the bacteria)
Distilled Water (or filtered and non-chlorinated)
here: http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/ferfun.html (http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/ferfun.html)

Does anyone know anything about this? I SOOO hope I didn't ruin this.  :'(
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: tynnille January 24, 2009, 06:04:24 PM
Well, I guess you could maybe rinse the cabbage and start again adding non-iodized salt and more liquid than usual since some of the juices were washed away as well.  :-\ Do you have any kefir you can make whey from to add into the liquid to help the process?
I do hope you can still use the cabbage...I know the feeling when things haven't gone as planned and time and money were spent getting the 'thing' done.
Tennille
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: crystal April 12, 2009, 08:01:48 PM
About two to three months ago, I made sauerkraut, ala Nourishing Traditions, with red cabbage.  I tasted it today and it has quite a powerful zing to it.  It isn't the typical sour taste, but a bite,twang and pow!  I wonder if it is okay to eat.  It has been refrigerated since the three day mark.  Maybe it is like this because of using red, rather than green cabbage?  I have used the NT recipe for sauerkraut before, only using green cabbage.

What do you all think about the safety?  Does it maybe have even more good bugs, indicated by the zing?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: crystal April 15, 2009, 08:14:05 AM
About two to three months ago, I made sauerkraut, ala Nourishing Traditions, with red cabbage.  I tasted it today and it has quite a powerful zing to it.  It isn't the typical sour taste, but a bite,twang and pow!  I wonder if it is okay to eat.  It has been refrigerated since the three day mark.  Maybe it is like this because of using red, rather than green cabbage?  I have used the NT recipe for sauerkraut before, only using green cabbage.

What do you all think about the safety?  Does it maybe have even more good bugs, indicated by the zing?

BUMP!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: DawnsEarlyBirds April 15, 2009, 06:07:38 PM
We make the NT recipe with both green and red cabbage - we prefer the red by far.  It does have a lot of zing.  It's bad if it tastes ... bad, or yeasty, or nasty.

I don't know if more zing = better for you.  We will probably only make the red cabbage this summer.  And doesn't it look GORGEOUS on your plate?!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: MrsJ June 24, 2009, 12:33:54 PM
I am in the process of making sauerkraut a la NT for the first time, and I think I must have filled my jar too full because it seems to be bubbling out a bit (evidenced by a little ring of sauerkraut juice at the base of the jar).  And the lid is bulging a little too.  Does this ruin my batch, or is it still okay?  It's got one more day on the counter before I stick it in the fridge.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: aflora June 24, 2009, 12:56:34 PM
I haven't had this happen...but I have heard it will crack the glass if there is not enough room to ferment...don't know about ruining the batch though. I have had to reduce the salt NT calls for in that one. It turns out way to salty for us. Good luck!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: Jemima January 29, 2010, 05:10:18 PM
Just read through this thread and made sauerkraut for the first time... But as I'm reading the last page here (p.4) someone asked about using iodized salt, and if that would ruin it, or it wouldn't turn out. There was one response, but I'm looking for more.

I used iodized sea salt... has anyone had experience with it not turning out? Also, I didn't have whey (dairy allergies) so I used the extra Tab. of salt.

Thanks!
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: boysmama January 30, 2010, 04:37:52 AM
Cabbage is full of lactobacilli on it's own. It's one vegetable that lacto ferments quite nicely without added whey(for the lactobacilli). I suspect this is why your batch did just fine. You can use the kraut "whey" as the starter in other recipes.
Since Ricotta is made by heating whey to a high temp (180 or more), you cannot use it for fermenting.  The good bacteria is dead.  But that is the price you pay for real ricotta!  Hope you all enjoyed it.

Kristin
Uh oh. I didn't know this! I made some mozzarella cheese and then (attempted) ricotta. I just made a mess with the ricotta, but I had lots of whey so I used that for sauerkraut (NT recipe)...I thought it turned out good. It tasted fine. Nobody got sick.  :-\  I still have leftover whey and I was going to make some more sauerkraut. Maybe I shouldn't use this whey  ???

Would've been nice to have that info in the book.  >:(  Or did I just miss that?
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: boysmama January 30, 2010, 04:51:17 AM
Iodized salt will keep the batch from fermenting properly. I think  you can still get an edible product, but the quality and texture and also the probiotic content may be reduced. If it gets slimy I would start over. I've seen some decent kraut made with iodized salt, but it was much less salt than the NT recipe.

As for very "zingy" kraut....traditionally kraut is made in the fall when temps are low. It's kept at room temperature ONLY until wilted and packed down enough to be covered with it's own juices- no added water. Allowing it to ferment slowly over 2-3 weeks between 55* and 65* will give you a more mellow ferment that will store much better.
From what I can learn from my older relatives (German)  it was then usually moved to an even cooler location for storage over winter- a vacant smoke house where it might even partially freeze, buried underground or put deep into a root cellar.
: Re: Kefir, Whey, Sauerkraut
: HOMEFree October 31, 2010, 09:34:30 AM

After watching "Homestead Blessings: Canning" DVD, I got excited to do my own sauerkraut. The West ladies did a wonderful job of walking you through this project. I had never realized how extremely simple this can be.

Hand shred/grate cabbage, add uniodized salt and work with your hands for a few minutes, put into jar and leave a couple inches space on top, cover loosley but secure and wait a few weeks. They recommend you sit the jar in a pie pan in case of leakage.