Vaccinations: Dealing With Doctors & Pressures

[Mamato6]

Wow it is great to find other that do not vac.  My preachers wife and I were talking recently and in a wisper she told me of a family at their old church that didn't vac.  I just smiled and nodded.  I told DH on the way home and he started laughing.  So many of the vacs are for children in high risk situations.  We were told by a RN in the hospital that the Hep B shot is given to children who might go to a day care and might be bitten by a child whose caregivers have hep.  Oh my so many assumptions.  Any how all of that to say my ped. is wonderful  He picks and chooses the vacs he gives to his children very understanding of us and he said if his children get the chicken pox.  which he is looking for a family to give them to his children  He will call us and let us exspose ours.  Great DR.  My thir boy we believe had the mump  a very light case.  His grandfather just got them a couple months ago. 

[jewels]

I just found this website and I feel like I'm home!  What a great resource and support!  Though this thread hasn't been active lately, I thought I'd add two links I've found most helpful.   I'm heading in for a well baby check with my 5 wk old daughter this week.  My first two girls were both vaccinated (no residual damage, thank the Lord!) but we're planning to hold off on this one for at least her first 2 years.  I'm a nurse with some pediatric training, so I have no problem standing up to doctors (o.k., I gotta admit I kinda enjoy it actually! ) but I do want to appear somewhat informed when I face the doctor.  Based on previous visits, I know she'll challenge me.  So I'm planning to present her with printouts of both of these links:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html
I think this Dr. Miller gives a balanced view of the vaccine issue, and I like his "schedule"... if we decide to vaccinate at all. 
http://chetday.com/novacform.html
This one I may present to her if she tries to pressure me into vaccinating.  Tell her when she's sincerely ready to take on the full God-given responsibility of raising my child (including financial repercussions) then she can sign the form. ... 
The point is, no physician out there would dream of signing something like this because they don't accept the responsiblity that comes with their action of administering the shot!
We'll see how the visit goes.  After reading the threads on this site, I think we'll likely be shopping for a new doctor as well; one that will support our rights as parents.   
Don't be daunted by your physician:   even the insurance companies (who sign the big paychecks) refer to doctors as "Medical Service Providers".  If they don't provide the level of service you want, then take your "business" elsewhere! 

[lovingmomof2]

My Pediatrician used to ask me about shots everytime I went in.  My hubby went with me one time and told him we were waiting until we put her in school.  We aren't going to put her in school.  That has solved the problem for now anyway and he hasn't asked about shots for our new son.

[Monita]

I am in the same boat.  Because my husband is military and stationed in Japan, we only see the Dr.s on base.  They are sooooo intimidating and mean about his issue.   They are so used to vaccinating our husbands without a thought that they act the same way towards us. 
I pray that I can find a more open minded Dr. as we have two more years here.  I've already been called.....at home and told that my daughter needed to be brought in to update her records.  They just told me to come in and do it.......
I haven't and she is due for her 6mo. shots and 12 mo shots and what ever comes after that.  I have not taken her to the Dr. since she was about 4-5 months and she is now turning two.  She is so healthy, more so than my other two children ever were.  I just pray for her health and safety so that I don't have to go in to the Dr's office.   (my older 2 were vaccinated)
My hubby is feeling the preassure and has not done the reserch that I have so, he is allowing me and trusting me to make this decision for the kids.  I feel that if he does cave in and tells me to get them vaccinated then I will and I will have peace about it.  God will take care of them!

[Simply Kristen]

  Because my husband is military and stationed in Japan, we only see the Dr.s on base. 

Monita,
Is it true the Japanese wait until after two to begin vaccinations? I have read this on 909shot.com and mercola.com.  Then, I looked up "Japanese Vaccination Schedule" and it looked almost identical to AMA's schedule.
What's the deal?

[Isaacsmama]

We decided against vaccines before Isaac was born.  We are military too.  Luckily, the vaccination department is seperate from peds, so the first time, I just walked out of the hospital without getting them.  the next time we had to face the doctor.  We were lucky and only got a lecture on how good they were and how safe they are.  I have friends who were told they were bad moms and guilty of child abuse.  Crazy!
a great web site with lots of links:
http://www.marytocco.com/
If you are wondering about laws for your state, you can find them on there, or send her an email and ask, she is VERY helpful.

[Monita]

  Because my husband is military and stationed in Japan, we only see the Dr.s on base. 

Monita,
Is it true the Japanese wait until after two to begin vaccinations? I have read this on 909shot.com and mercola.com.  Then, I looked up "Japanese Vaccination Schedule" and it looked almost identical to AMA's schedule.
What's the deal?

I heard that this is how things used to be until recently.  I don't know for sure about when they recommend administering vacs. and when it changed from the 2 year policy.  But I've seen many of the Japanese babies come into church after they have gotten their shots and they seem to get them before two but not as young as ours.  I will ask someone specifically though and get back to ya.
 I did watch the whole 1hour and 30min. video recommended by someone on 7xsunday.(sorry no specifics on who) , but there was a link to the video.  It mentioned that Japan did not vac. until age two but that since that policy had changed their had been more complications occurring with the children here.
Also, I have seen the way the vac. site of the babies arm looks and it is so weird.  The child will have several prick marks(little red dots) together in a line in 2-3 rows.  It leaves a mark for a long time, like scarring.   Yikes!

[blessedwife]

Oh boy!  Although our "family doctor" tried to pressure me into continuing vaccinations on our 3 children (including telling me that I was naive and that my concerns about vaccine safety was due to my consulting "old data") I stood firm.  It was difficult for me, as I'm not one who gets charged up when it comes to confrontations.  However, I did not give in and in the end the Dr. did not drop us as patients, but he clearly does not approve.  Oh well...

After consulting with my husband, I have decided to make sure that he is always present, should a Dr. visit be needed.  People usually do not give him a hard time!  (What a blessing it is to have a STRONG man!!)

Incidentally, since we have decided to forego all "well baby" checks and scheduled vaccination visit, our kids have been shockingly healthy.  Praise the Lord!

One source of info. that I found to be quite informative is a Dr. by the name of Russell Blaylock.  He is a neurosurgeon (or neurologist?).  I don't have the web address available, but just google his name and you'll find what he has to say about childhood vaccinations.  Highly recommended!! 

Continue in prayer... the Lord WILL give you the wisdom that you and your husband need to make the right decision for your kids.

[milmuth]

My problem is that Hubby is in the military and it is a very communistic environment.  I live overseas and depend on the Military Docs and clinics.  They are so scary! 

Ditto!  We too are in the military.  I just had my first child, born overseas, and refused to start vaccines yet-not until at least 1 yr and then only a few.  My doc was family med and young and a mother.  I used the excuse that we were moving at three months and I didn't want to risk a reaction while in that process, esp with flying, etc.  She just noted it in his chart and didn't argue with me.  We are now stateside at a military base again.  They are brutal in their pushiness!  And not so wise as to all the info on vaccines.  I again have chosen to see family med, but needed to see peds for one visit and they were down right insulting and mean.  I will not go back to them.  However, my family doc on base just had me sign a waiver form and that was the end of the discussion.  He is the only one here that has not badgered me about it.  Even in the military they CANNOT force the dependents to get the vaccinations, only the active duty military personal.  However, it could affect your ability to go/stay overseas- at least that is what they say, but legally they have NO right to do that.  I hope you take your time to make a wise decision.  God will give you strength to stand as long as you and your hubby walk His ways

[lluviame]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Today I have been searching the web like crazy trying to get info on  immunizations. My husband and I are house parents and we are thinking about going back into child care. We took a 4 yr break and God gave me a little girl during that time. We agreed to only work for an agency that will allow us to continue home school. I really don't think that will be a problem.
   As for immunizations we are sure it will be. I searched on the web for immunizations that do not contain mercury and I found a lot of mention of them. Most people reported that they just requested them from their doctor. I saw directories for mercury free dentists and was hoping the web would have the same type of info for doctors as well.
   Is there anyone out there who could refer me to a great doctor that is willing to order mercury free immunizations. I know those kind of doctors are hard to find and going around looking for one can be riskey too. I don't care what state you are in, I think this is worth traveling for. 
                     
                                      Thanks for this web site its wonderful.

[SC]

It isn't as uncommon as you think to find these kinds of doctors now. Many parents are becoming more proactive. Very few doctors haven't already been approached on this matter, so I don't think you'll find much shock at the request. However, just to save gas, I would call and speak to the doctor's nurse. Ask her about how this is handled by that doctor. Tell them you are looking for a doctor in the area that is receptive to this. If her doctor isn't open to this, she may know who is. Better yet, call the local hospital's pediatric ward and talk to the head nurse on that floor. THEY know ALL the junk on ALL of the local pediatricians. If you ask them off the record and are very friendly, you'll get the real scoop on doctors in your area. 

[lluviame]

 Thanks for your advice.  I will ask around and see what I can find out in my area.

[KeepItSimple]

This morning at the Dr.'s office.......they told me they won't see my children if I do not get them vaccinated.  They don't want to be "responsible" if anything were to happen. 

Ditto..the same happened with us with a new doctor after we moved out to Washington State.  She refused to see my children when I refused to have them vaccinated because she said something very close to ... 'If I could not trust her ability as a doctor, then she could not treat my children as they would need to be treated and I would be a detriment to them and an obstacle to her'

I thanked her for her time and left.  The kids have not had a 'primary' doctor since, other than dad. 

Hubby is a chiropractor and the kids have had adjustments since birth.  None of my children have ever had ear infections, been on antibiotics, or been sick for a lengthy time.  Of course, we also follow the no medication rule in our house, too.  If one of our children get a fever, we let it burn.  If it gets too high we will slowly cool them off with tepid water baths or a cool cloth, etc., etc. 

God has been very good to us, we are truly blessed to have relatively healthy kids.  (I say relatively because I recently started reading Nourishing Traditions....one word, eep!)  At any rate, I know that I give my children things I shouldn't, so we say an absolute 'no' to some things (like vaccines, artificial sweetners, 'energy' drinks, etc.) because there are some things that go into their bodies that shouldn't.  Much to the kids consternation, Mom is still learning, so a few more things are being added to the 'no-no' list.  Don't tell them, but breakfast cereal is next on the list...as soon as I make a great loaf of bread!

Peace,
Camille

[healthybratt]

I thanked her for her time and left.

Just curious, were you charged for this visit?

I find it very interesting and very frustrating that one cannot browse for doctors without paying first.   To me that's like paying to walk in the door at Walmart and then walking out without making a purchase.   

[ShabbyChic]

I am so sorry that these doctors have tried to force you to succumb to their views by using intimidation, fear, lies, and shunning.  I have a pediatricians office here that is very laid back, punctual, and genuinely friendly.  We are never rushed.  They come in and pray with us and play and discuss everything.  They always recommend herbs and homeo treatments first.  They are slow to prescribe drugs of any kind, particularly antibiotics. 

My older son went in with RSV, pneumonia, and an ear infection and their advice was for me to bring him in that morning and we talked via telephone that afternoon and twice every day (even on Sat. and Sun.) for a week.  No meds.  Ear infection ran it's course.  We only gave him Tylenol and honestly, I would have absolutely given him antibiotics had she prescribed them.  He was down and out for a month.  Then it was over.  He is fine.

Our RN/lactation consultant is a retired mom who LOVES kids.  When I told her I would immunize on my schedule and give vaccinations one at the time, she said she didn't care if I vaccinated at all.  She was glad I was breastfeeding and feeding them such a good diet.  Because I have sons, however, she did recommend the Rubella shot because there is a risk of sterility.  And she told me the pros and cons (including contracting Hep B from saliva) of all the shots.  No pressure.  And they don't offer the kids CANDY!

Is it possible to recommend specific practices?  If anyone lives in the Raleigh, NC area, you can send me a personal e-mail and I'll tell you who our beloved RN is.

[DawnsEarlyBirds]

We have found a chiropractor who is quite helpful.  He is more of a natural dr./chiro. but he encourages us not to vaccinate.

[KeepItSimple]

Hi Wendy..

We had the same thing happen to us.  Meaning, we were asked to leave because there would be a 'trust' issue.  To be quite honest...we don't have a pediatrician.  I wanted to do the whole 'well baby check ups', but the more I thought about it...the more I saw it really was no benefit.  So, I don't know where my kids fall on the 'percentile scale'...so what?  As long as my kids were gaining weight and progressing, I was fine.  Now, that is not to say that we don't seek medical counsel on some occassions.  Our son had a rash..and we took him to a dermatologist.  Our youngest daughter had a thing on her eyelid and we took her to an eye doc.  Our youngest son had an undescended testicle, so we took him to a pediatric urologist.  So, we seek help when things aren't as they should be..but not monthly.

The hardest part for me on this journey has been getting rid of all the stuff I heard growing up.  What the world tells you you should do, KWIM?  It's just like the homeschool thing...if your kids aren't doing exactly what they are doing in the classroom..then somehow you're not doing a good job.  It takes a long time (for me anyway) to get rid of the old way of thinking. 

God bless you in your journey - Camille

[AnnaBanana]

We had a great Pediatrician who pushed the importance of vaxing but really let us make the call.  He actually took the time to teach us why he thought certain ones were more important than others.  Alas, he has retired, and although we still use his office (with the new peds) when necessary, we don't do any well baby checks or routine vaxs.  I've just been upfront with them on the order and schedule WE have chosen for our children, and said, "I will bring them in according to what is right for OUR family."  They do tend to badger a bit, but this particular office has been very wonderful to work with compared to others.

[savedbygrace]

My husband was the skeptical one and I knew nothing about vaccines. He didnt really want to but he left it up to me. I dont really like being an odd ball but the more I learn the more I realize that I would rather be an odd ball then go the way of the world on almost EVERY issue! Vaccines included. My son got his first shots at 2 months. The nurse came in and just stabbed him with 4 different shots in his tiny little thighs! He screamed of course and I was so horrified and cried for him too. He never got any more. My second and third child have never gotten any. They dont go to "well child" check-ups either. It is so nice to see that there are others who believe like we do! There is a lot of pressure from doctors to vaccinate. They always try to scare me into submission. They tell me horror stories about children who havent been vaccinated and caught some horrible thing as a result.  I just say uh hu. They look at me like Im crazy and like my children are suffering and neglected because of my choices! Oh well! My husband and I will answer to GOD for what we do with our children. I am more fearful of Him then I am of the doctors. Know what I mean!?

[JoyInHim]

Any Doctor who would 'harrass' me regarding the choice I make, as an -educated- parent with full responsibility of the outcome on my child, would be promptly FIRED as my Doctor.  I'd simply smile and say, 'Thank you.  I'll have our new Doctor request records from your office,' and excuse myself and pay the office call fee.  And leave 

I've done this over and over until I've found doctors (of all sorts - including our OB, our urgent care clinic, and our Pediatrician for newborns) who RESPECTED our choice regarding health care for our children.

It's that simple!  (And yes - it is a pain!)

With three neices/nephew with Autism, we don't mess around with vaccines.

[4lilkeepers]

 through the "kindergarten shots and our second through her 1 1/2 shots but then started researching and decided to stop.

When our thrid came along we decided no vax.  I did however need the reassurance that she was doing okay (she was a tad premature) and so I opted to take her to a recommended ped.  Big mistake!  He was busy and scurrying here and there and when he finally spoke to me, he said, " today she needs to get her two month shots." I told him no we weren't going to do that right now and he precedes to ask me why, what research have I done, have I gone to the AAP site or the CDC, etc...... He then took me to his office and closed the door and gave me all the time in the world to try try and convince me that I needed to do this.  I politely said no than you and left.  Two days later we get a call "surveyor" from the CDC on whether the children residing in our house are vaccinated or not.  I just treated them like a telemarketer once I heard the initials "CDC and the word vaccines" and I said " We're not interested and hung up.  A few days later they tried again and my hubby answered and said " We don't want any" and hung up. 

I found that all a little too coincidental.  WE have never gone back there and dd, now almost 4 has never seen the dr. again, except when she cracked her elbow and we took to the emergency room. 

I'm beginning to believe that it's easier to take your kids to afamily practicioner than it is to a pediatrician.  They're not so nosy and forthright!

4lilkeepers

[healthybratt]

' and excuse myself and pay the office call fee.  And leave 

This is the part that burns me up.  You don't like the doc.  He does nothing for you.  You leave and you still have to pay him.  Sounds like a racket to me.  If you were shopping for a car, you get to test drive it, poke it, prod it, gawk at it and ask questions, but they don't make you pay for it, if you decide you'd rather have another car.

[4lilkeepers]

a doctor is just as , if not more so, than choosing a car!   

Surely there is a list somewhere on the net that has the names of dr.s that don't believe in vaccines or at least is known for giving options! I've looked, but to no avail.

4lilkeepers

[4myhoonie]

' and excuse myself and pay the office call fee.  And leave 

This is the part that burns me up.  You don't like the doc.  He does nothing for you.  You leave and you still have to pay him.  Sounds like a racket to me.  If you were shopping for a car, you get to test drive it, poke it, prod it, gawk at it and ask questions, but they don't make you pay for it, if you decide you'd rather have another car.

i couldn't agree more!!!  ridiculous!!!    

[mxmom]

There is a website where you can go in and rate your doctor.  I just heard about it on the radio.  Apparently 90% of the visits and ratings came from us Canadians - so either we are either really disappointed with our physicians or really happy!  Although I am not sure if he meant overall or just on that day.  I will have to check.  The gentleman on the radio said the doctors are really upset about the sight.  I wonder if he is correct.  Here is the site:  http://http://ratemds.com  I hope I inserted this right as a link!!

[healthybratt]

' and excuse myself and pay the office call fee.  And leave 

This is the part that burns me up.  You don't like the doc.  He does nothing for you.  You leave and you still have to pay him.  Sounds like a racket to me.  If you were shopping for a car, you get to test drive it, poke it, prod it, gawk at it and ask questions, but they don't make you pay for it, if you decide you'd rather have another car.

i couldn't agree more!!!  ridiculous!!!    

Maybe the next time I go in for an interview for a new job, I should write out an invoice for my "office call".  You think they'd pay it?

[4myhoonie]

' and excuse myself and pay the office call fee.  And leave 

This is the part that burns me up.  You don't like the doc.  He does nothing for you.  You leave and you still have to pay him.  Sounds like a racket to me.  If you were shopping for a car, you get to test drive it, poke it, prod it, gawk at it and ask questions, but they don't make you pay for it, if you decide you'd rather have another car.

i couldn't agree more!!!  ridiculous!!!    

Maybe the next time I go in for an interview for a new job, I should write out an invoice for my "office call".  You think they'd pay it?

sadly, HB it's doubtful.  are you job hunting?

[healthybratt]

' and excuse myself and pay the office call fee.  And leave 

This is the part that burns me up.  You don't like the doc.  He does nothing for you.  You leave and you still have to pay him.  Sounds like a racket to me.  If you were shopping for a car, you get to test drive it, poke it, prod it, gawk at it and ask questions, but they don't make you pay for it, if you decide you'd rather have another car.

i couldn't agree more!!!  ridiculous!!!    

Maybe the next time I go in for an interview for a new job, I should write out an invoice for my "office call".  You think they'd pay it?

sadly, HB it's doubtful.  are you job hunting?

nope, just hypothetically speaking.  I love my job. 

[makingchanges]

This morning I went in for a checkup for Hannah, our youngest. I really don't like going to see the doctor as generally medical personnel are so focused on maintaining their own certifications, avoiding legal liability, properly executing reporting procedures, and keeping the peace with their own employer.

I am not saying that these things are inherantly wrong... I deal with them all myself to a lesser degree, however, on top of these distractions there is this psycho-social imprint on most Americans that attributes a definite patriarchal authority to doctors in specific, and to the medical community in general.

So you have on the one hand a powerful managed pressure placed on doctors by Insurrance companies (We're out to getcha!), Drug companies (We can pad your paycheck), the AMA (use our rules or you'll be an X-MD), the CDC (Get the paperwork right), the employer, co-workers, continuing education, education loans...

But on the other hand you have this "god complex" that most people willingly give to doctors and to the medical community.

So on the one hand, my physician really cannot give quality care, but on the other hand he thinks that he is my only hope for a long healthy life... and he is amazed when I do not feel the same way. My pediatrician does not know me or my child. He does not know how I live, how I raise my kids, what I believe. He just has a checklist, and a set of procedures that he must complete before he hands me a bill for $100 and sends me and my child out the door. The really odd thing is that he is comfortable with this.

Today, I spent 50% of the visit talking about vaccines. The funny thing is that my pediatrician told me that he respected my beliefs. I replied that I respected his as well, but that I wish that he would respect my education. He sort of halted, and then continued to explain that every person must follow his conscience and that he just presents the facts so that each person can make an informed decision.

I thought that was pretty fair, and I pressed my point saying that I respected him for being honest and up front. I also said that like any education his was limited. It only included those things that his teachers knew or desired to teach. Then I mentioned that my disagreement was not with him but with the AMA that designed his education. That they have to deal daily with powerful special interests, and that they have chosen to design a program that is based on the best fit for society in general instead of for the individual.

I am not sure what he thought about that, he really didn't have much to say. I concluded by thanking him again for his work, his professionalism, and his dedication. I said that I would like a list of the vaccinations he would recommend, and thatI would consider them as I would be back to visit him with my other two children in two days.

He appeared genial at this, got me the vaccination informaitonal papers, and his RN finished up with an Anemia / Lead lab test.

So I am doing my homework today.

The pediatrician recommended these vaccinations:

Diphtheria Tetanus & Pertussis
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Haemophilus Influenzae Type b (Hib)
Polio
Pneumococcal Conjugate
Chicken Pox
MMR

See all CDC Vaccine Information Statements here

I did some searches and found these interesting links in wikipedia:

List fo Vaccine Topics
anti-vaccinationists (written by a "true believer")
Controversies in Autism
Vaccine Controversy
MMR Vaccine

After readnig all that... and a couple others, I went to this site:

Think Twice

...and bought a couple of their books, and a DVD. We'll see how it goes.

I will report my findings and my interaction with my pediatrician.

--gabe

Gabe,
I noticed on the thread that we never heard back from you. What are the results? This is so interesting.

[Mamaofthree]

Just so everyone knows, there are several different shots (including Varicella/chickenpox) that are made from cells from aborted babies. 
Check out these sites for more information or simply type in 'vaccines made from aborted babies' on your search engine.  These shots will never be given to my children.  They do make alternative shots that are not from aborted babies, but you have to ask for them.
http://www.eadshome.com/vaccines.htm
http://www.whale.to/m/aborted.htm