Shabby's 40 Day Nursing Mama's Yeast Cleanse...

[YoopreMama]

What about soup?  Or baked veggies?  Duck eggs?  Hmmm...that's tough, 4MH...

Welcome, Jemima--I was hoping you'd join.   

Shabby--did you have headaches from this?

I've upped my water lots and I think it helped ward some off.  Decreasing my dairy and carbs is hard...a menu will definitely help...we'll have to post threads w/ raw recipes or low-carb and try and modify.  I'll check in tonight.

I'm also adding aloe vera for my supplements..to heal my gut...that and something to boost my immune system to avoid getting sick (vitamin C?)...probiotics, of course...EFAs...and whatever else I've listed previously (CLO, coconut oil, pumpkin seed oil capsules, garlic, power tonic, lemons, Eppie baths) . Oh!  Herbs girl mentioned olive leaf on the nursing/yeast thread...for parasites.  That and milk thistle for liver support are in my cart, too, at Vitacost.  I'll place my order today.   

I think the brown rice is the best grain to eat while nursing...hoping the supplements and low carb diet will compensate for that.  Let the buggers STARVE!   

[4myhoonie]

4myhoonie, we too are allergic to eggs in our home and I have discovered that we can eat quail which are always in season, you might check the asian markets to see if the carry any, they usually do.  As well as duck eggs, goose, guinea hen eggs etc.  However they are all seasonal except the quail eggs.  It takes 3 quail eggs to equal one chicken egg but they are so good and it is such a pleasure to have eggs again.  I get mine from a local man who raises, ducks, quail, pheasant, geese etc and he always has a bunch.  HTH

hmmm..........thanks!  will start looking for someone.  we are getting fresh free range eggs.  it's so hard to give those up!   

[Jemima]

Ok, my couple questions are... (for now )

- What is the reason for the cloves? Maybe I missed it, but I'm thinking maybe they're anti-fungal?

- What do you all think of this plan for a 19 mo. old boy? I don't want to distract the focus from the nursing mother, but my little guy has some eczema patches that I think may be yeast related, and I think I may have him do this w/me, but modified a bit, perhaps. Do you other mom's think this would be ok?

- Yooper, I'd like to hear your finalized list of supplements, and what they're for - I'd prefer to keep my supplements to a minimum, but I want to make sure I do this right and take what I need, too.  (I like the idea of the Candex, versus a Candida Clear.  I'll have to check into that.)

I'm definitely going to need to do some shopping, too! Keep the meal ideas coming...I need to see if there's threads on quinoa or amaranth - I'm new to that...

[YoopreMama]

You're right--

Clove''s healthful help comes courtesy of eugenol, a powerful, multifaceted phytochemical that anesthetizes, kills bacteria and fungi, fights free radical oxidation and thins the blood. Clove oil is virtually pure eugenol.

--James Duke

If I had a 19 month old, I'd certainly think about it...if it goes well, I'll have a 9,7, and 5 year old on it!   

Ok, my couple questions are... (for now )

- What is the reason for the cloves? Maybe I missed it, but I'm thinking maybe they're anti-fungal?

- What do you all think of this plan for a 19 mo. old boy? I don't want to distract the focus from the nursing mother, but my little guy has some eczema patches that I think may be yeast related, and I think I may have him do this w/me, but modified a bit, perhaps. Do you other mom's think this would be ok?

- Yooper, I'd like to hear your finalized list of supplements, and what they're for - I'd prefer to keep my supplements to a minimum, but I want to make sure I do this right and take what I need, too.  (I like the idea of the Candex, versus a Candida Clear.  I'll have to check into that.)

I'm definitely going to need to do some shopping, too! Keep the meal ideas coming...I need to see if there's threads on quinoa or amaranth - I'm new to that...

Will post final list later today.   

ETA:
Olive leaf extract capsules
EVCO
NSI probiotics 15-35
Aloe vera capsules
CLO [orange ]
Milk thistle--Herb Pharm
raw garlic cloves
pumpkin seed oil capsules
candex
cloves
I have fenugreek???
Schulze's Master Tonic
lemons for lots of water
Eppie baths
prenatal vitamins w/ digestive enzymes and antioxidants/immune boosting vitamins
extra vitamin C

[YoopreMama]

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,995.msg6946.html#msg6946 is the thread on foods to eat while fighting candida.  Better start reading it...

I may try modifying my GF pancake recipe...it may work for the 40 day plan.  That would be fabulous (using brown rice and/or millet).  The liquid is supposed to be sour milk...even kombucha worked...maybe a nice tea for extra flavor?   

Made a yummy French Onion soup today...and added bacon, spinach, and brown rice.  Yeah, I snuck on some Parmesan.    Too bad PB isn't included (or raw honey).  

Placed my order...glad I have lots of blueberries...   That chocolate mint drink will be on the menu, too. 

[4myhoonie]

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,995.msg6946.html#msg6946 is the thread on foods to eat while fighting candida.  Better start reading it...

I may try modifying my GF pancake recipe...it may work for the 40 day plan.  That would be fabulous (using brown rice and/or millet).  The liquid is supposed to be sour milk...even kombucha worked...maybe a nice tea for extra flavor?   

Made a yummy French Onion soup today...and added bacon, spinach, and brown rice.  Yeah, I snuck on some Parmesan.    Too bad PB isn't included (or raw honey).  

Placed my order...glad I have lots of blueberries...   That chocolate mint drink will be on the menu, too. 

let us know if you get the pancake recipe modified.  the Maker's Diet says no pork in the first phase.  the soup sounds soooo yummy!  i may do that anyway!  thanks!

[Julia]

You guys don't seem like you're eating very much. When you take out all the supplements, all I see is 2 eggs for breakfast, rice and veggies for lunch, and a salad for dinner. Are you getting enough calories?

This is where I'm having a hard time trying to eat anti-candida-style. I'm not trying to lose weight and if I don't get enough to at least feel satisfied, I'm more likely to break down and eat something I shouldn't.

[skelliott2]

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,995.msg6946.html#msg6946 is the thread on foods to eat while fighting candida.  Better start reading it...

I may try modifying my GF pancake recipe...it may work for the 40 day plan.  That would be fabulous (using brown rice and/or millet).  The liquid is supposed to be sour milk...even kombucha worked...maybe a nice tea for extra flavor?   

Made a yummy French Onion soup today...and added bacon, spinach, and brown rice.  Yeah, I snuck on some Parmesan.    Too bad PB isn't included (or raw honey).  

Placed my order...glad I have lots of blueberries...   That chocolate mint drink will be on the menu, too. 

Are you eating any nuts at all??  If so, you can have almond butter.  If you have a vitamix, or a juicer, you can make it with bulk almonds from Sam's.

Also, if almonds are allowed, almond meal really enhances the flavor of pancakes.  Just a thought...

[YoopreMama]

let us know if you get the pancake recipe modified.  the Maker's Diet says no pork in the first phase.  the soup sounds soooo yummy!  i may do that anyway!  thanks!

I'm not following the Maker's Diet, so I'm OK w/ bacon/pork.     I'm doing it for yeast...do they affect yeast?

Skelliot2's got some great ideas/points...I'm going to try and quote her from the other WTM board...

You guys don't seem like you're eating very much. When you take out all the supplements, all I see is 2 eggs for breakfast, rice and veggies for lunch, and a salad for dinner. Are you getting enough calories?

This is where I'm having a hard time trying to eat anti-candida-style. I'm not trying to lose weight and if I don't get enough to at least feel satisfied, I'm more likely to break down and eat something I shouldn't.

I'm eating big quantities of this stuff, and the fatty supplements help...are you eating nuts, Julia?  I'm surely going to have to snack more than I do now.  3 meals/day will not do it while nursing, for sure.

Are you eating any nuts at all??  If so, you can have almond butter.  If you have a Vitamix, or a juicer, you can make it with bulk almonds from Sam's.

Also, if almonds are allowed, almond meal really enhances the flavor of pancakes.  Just a thought...

Mmmm...thinking about nuts...the mold is what I'm wondering about, re: yeast.  No concern of allergies here...just the mold factor.  Nuts would make it much more pleasant.     Thanks for the pancake tip--may use that!

[skelliott2]

Donna Gates does allow almonds during her yeast cleanse.  No peanuts or cashews(I think).  Those have a high tendency to mold, but the almonds are OK according to her.

Yooper, if you want, I'll look it up to be sure.  I know peanuts are no and almonds are yes, but I'm not positive about the cashews or other nuts...

[YoopreMama]

Donna Gates does allow almonds during her yeast cleanse.  No peanuts or cashews(I think).  Those have a high tendency to mold, but the almonds are OK according to her.

Yooper, if you want, I'll look it up to be sure.  I know peanuts are no and almonds are yes, but I'm not positive about the cashews or other nuts...

Thanks, again!   

I'm going to post some stuff soon I found...mostly from the "foods to eat while fighting candida" thread...lots of meal ideas and common ?s...

[YoopreMama]

Some useful posts from around WTM...not everything is dairy-free or even strictly no carb, but some good info, nonetheless:

Candida / Yeast: Symptoms & Cures
Fungal-Bacterial Infections
Treating Children for Candida/Yeast
Candida Cleanse Without Supplements
Treating Candida/Yeast While Pregnant
Natural Antifungals
Fighting Candida w/o Sugar [Carb] Restrictions
Candida Albicans vs Other Yeasts: Are All Yeasts Created Equal
Die-Off from Candida/Yeast: Causes, Effects, Risks & Reduction
Leaky Gut:  The Cause of it All?
I Think I Have Candida and/or Leaky Gut:  What Now?

Amaranth and quinoa are gluten free, and allowed on an anti-candida diet.  So are millet and buckwheat.  These are the only grains we used when we fought candida.

We made a lot of soups, salads and stir fries.  You'd be amazed how much variety you can get when you really think about it.  We threw out everything that wasn't allowed, so we wouldn't be tempted, and then just went with it.  You can  make flours by grinding the allowed grains, dredge veggies (like zucchini slices) in the flour, and fry in coconut oil.  We did a lot of root vegetable dishes using red potatoes, carrots, taro root, olive oil, and seasonings like sea salt, rosemary, etc.  You can have veggies with a simple dip, omelets with veggies like peppers and onion or salsa, meat and fish, lots of raw foods work as well.  We made crackers from sprouted buckwheat, or flax seeds, or nori with veggie nut stuffers on top.  Recipes in raw foods books have lots of great ideas for crackers that are allowed on a candida diet.  My favorite book is Rejuvenate your Life by Serene Allison.  Some of these crackers are good with guacamole and/or salsa.  Celery with almond butter is also good.

It's hard to change habits, but there are lots of foods you can eat.  It just takes more time to cook, and a lot of thinking.  Have fun!

Off the top of my head things like ketchup and Worst. have sugar in them..so....NO ! Instead of margarine, use coconut oil. Its a delicious alternative. Use Amaranth and Quinoa with veggies.. I will roast a bunch of cut-up veggies in a 450 oven with salt and oil, then during the week throw them in pasta or grains. ...Try Stevia as a sweetener. I've been drinking Yerba Mate Tea...not only tasty and energizing but it seems to me I am LESS HUNGRY !!

Red potatoes are also allowed, but not russet.  For some reason, red potatoes are not as starchy.  We would slice these really thin, and bake with olive oil and sea salt until they were crispy.  Or, you can bake them, slice them open, pat on butter and rosemary, and rebake for about 15 minutes -- YUM!  Also, carrots are allowed.  You can serve these with stevia and cinnamon.  Stevia is a great sweetener that makes a lot of things taste better.  Makes it a little easier to give up sugar.  You can also put stevia and cinnamon into the millet.  It's somewhat like having oatmeal for breakfast.

Gluten free biscuits would probably not work, since they're usually made from starchy flours, unless you can come up with a recipe from the four acceptable grains.  You can make pancakes with buckwheat, but they're a little strong tasting.  We did make them, though, since we were a little desperate. 

I got all of this information from the Body Ecology Diet by Donna Gates.  It's really helped a lot of people with yeast problems.  The other thing to remember, though, is you have to repopulate with the good bacteria.  We had kefir everyday, and tried to get in lots of cultured veggies.  These are an acquired taste, so we weren't as consistent with the cultured veggies as we should have been, but every little bit helps! 

I keep reading in places that peanuts are not good while on the anti-candida diet. Why aren't they good to eat?

The reason that most candida experts say you shouldn't eat peanuts is that they believe that fungus and mold cross react.  This is the same reason they say not to eat cheese, vinegar, fermented foods, etc.  Peanuts are commonly stored in such a way, that they contain mold spores (which might also explain why they are a common allergen).

http://www.drlockie.com/profiles/diet_ymf.htm
http://allergyexpert.wordpress.com/category/mold/

I personally had no trouble with peanuts during my cleanse, but if you're having trouble, don't eat them.

I have been doing the cleanse now for 5 days.  For breakfast we mostly eat eggs, omelets with onions, mushrooms, a little cheese then after it is cooked we add salsa and sour cream.  We also eat them poached, scrambled with salda and sour cream etc.  A crustless quiche is yummy as well.  I know that you can have buckwheat, millet, quinoa and amaramath.  If you look on the first page of posts there is a recipe for coconut flour muffins.  I plan on making those today.  For lunch we have had chili, pork chops, red potatoes sliced thin that I baked at 450 with green beans and some bacon grease.  I added a little garlic and onion salt and hubby requested it again the following night.  Tonight I am making taco soup and last night we had roasted chicken.  I took the left over chicken bones, the drippings along with the inside parts will make a broth tomorrow and then make chicken and wild rice soup with veggies in it.  Oh and the other night we had lamb steaks.  HTH

Glutino makes flax crackers that are just whole flax seeds deyhdrated into flat crackers.  It was a big help for my DS, who has a love affair with crackers.  They're fairly low carb, and his pooping habits have never been better!

I eat a brown rice cracker...Lundberg maybe is the company?

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,3101.0.html
(Candida Albicans vs Other Yeasts: Are All Yeasts Created Equal)

Can I drink kefir while fighting candida?  Does the probiotics outweigh the yeast that is in it?

I'm interesting in knowing about the previously mentioned grains as well.
Jammie

The kefir bacteria eat the sugars in the milk, so it doesn't feed the yeast at all.  It just populates your stomach with the good bacteria.  Wonderful stuff!

Those grains are actually seeds, and don't feed the yeast.  Carb counts don't matter as long as you strictly follow the diet, and only eat approved foods. Millet is also allowed!

I made a batch of the Nourishing Traditions mayo to go on a salad last night for supper.  Do you all think this is an ok substitute for salad dressing?  It does have some lemon juice, but mostly it's egg and olive oil.  It tastes very similar to Hellman's mayo.  Anyway, it was better than dry salad but not as good as ranch.   Jammie

just as a lunch or snack idea, i've been wrapping tuna salad or leftovers of it in a lettuce leaf, it's not hugely filling, but it's not something i would have thought of if WTM'er skelliot2 hadn't mentioned it!   

Is unsweetened Chocolate ok to eat while on a candida cleanse? Like the bakers choc?

Absolutely but good luck with that.   

I am thinking of mixing some xylitol in with the choc and then use the sweetened choc to cover almond butter(made into balls). Sort of like Peanut butter balls.

Let us know how that turns out.  I tried stevia and lets just say, the results were not worth posting about.

I really am hoping for at least edible results! My poor DH is really having a hard time with this candida diet! Meals are going ok, but I am realizing he like to snack a lot! For Breakfast I am doing fried eggs(3) with some sort of meat(leftover steak, salmon patties or lamb sausage. The lamb and salmon were not a hit!) Lunch is a salad with meat and lots of veggies, homemade salad dressing and a hard boiled egg to go with it. Also some toasted pumpkin seeds. Dinner is Beef or chicken or fish with lots of mixed steamed veggies. I made a "dessert" that was pumpkin pie filling made with goats milk and no sugar. That was decently good. I have also made a veggie dip with Avocado, goat yogurt and seasoning.

...For lunch we had red potatoes that I sliced into wedges and then dipped them in melted butter and sprinkled garlic salt on and baked. I also just saw the post about potatoes with bacon grease, beans, etc.  That looks good.  We had sauerkraut, too, but just saw something that said to avoid that.  We made our last year from our garden produce with salt brine.  Is that okay to eat?  I am assuming some is made with vinegar and that is why you should avoid it.  Am I wrong on that?

I have searched for recipes for millet or quinoa oatmeal type recipes and haven't found any.  Does anyone know how to make hot cereal out of these grains?

Millet Delight:
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,8335.msg108405.html#msg108405

Has anyone tried eating the quinoa or millet or alt. grains?  I haven't tried them yet.  I'm not sure how the carbs work or if it doesn't matter since they are gluten free.  I'm still eating mostly salads, meat, cheese and eggs.  I do have some recipes for quinoa and hot cereals, but was afraid to try them yet.  I've also had a few potatoes here and there (like maybe 1/4 c.)  Last night I had two tostadas (12 carbs) with 1/2 c. refried beans (11 net carbs) topped with lettuce, tomato, cheese and sour cream.  I think I calculated my whole meal to be around 24 net carbs.

This week we are having salmon patties.   I also bought some spaghetti squash, turnips, and cauliflower.  I'm making cauli-"rice" with the cauliflower.  You run the cauliflower in the food processor until it is fine like rice.  Then you steam it and season it.  I'm thinking we may have beef and broccoli with it using venison.

We are also having:
Crustless Quiche (not sure the total carbs)
    *  5 eggs
    * 1/4 cup flour (I may leave this out or try quinoa flour)
    * 1/2 tsp. salt
    * 1/2 tsp. baking powder
    * 1/2 stick melted butter
    * 1 cup cottage cheese
    * 1/2 lb. grated cheddar cheese

Combine all ingredients and pour into a well-greased 9x9 pan. Bake at 400° for 15 minutes. Reduce to 350° and cook for 30-40 more minutes.

Canned tomatoes should be fine...they are a little lower in carbs than some veggies.  The can should give you a carb count on the back for each serving.  You can subtract fiber from that amount.

Roasted Veggies

2 small turnips, diced
1/2 large sweet potato, diced
1 zucchini, diced
3-4  T. coconut, olive oil or butter
1 small sprig of rosemary, finely chopped
a generous sprinkle of seasoned pepper
1/2 t. coarse kosher salt

Stir all together.  I use my round stoneware baking dish.  An 8 x11 dish would work too.  I pre-cook in the microwave for 5 minutes, if I'm in a hurry.  Roast at 475* until crispy and browned on top (15-20 minutes).  You will need to stir every once in a while to get the veggies evenly browned.  Everyone loved this at lunch today...well, except 2 out of 3 kids kids, but they ate it anyway since they didn't get a choice.

We also had this cabbage recipe http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Fried-Cabbage-II/Detail.aspx from www.allrecipes.com  You can sub stevia for the sugar or just leave it out like I did.  Although my mom in law said her mom always added the sugar and it makes a big difference in the taste.

Also, we tried the spaghetti squash and it was very good.  It is a little tiny bit crunchy, but I really liked it with spaghetti sauce.  I think it would be really good with butter and parmesan cheese as well.

http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/candidadiet.html

Has anyone tried eating the quinoa or millet or alt. grains?

Yes.  I like quinoa best in pilafs.  It's really good with indian spices and sauteed veggies.  Millet is the best bfast cereal IMO, and buckwheat makes good flatbread.  You can make pancakes with buckwheat, but they taste pretty strong.  Not our favorite.

So far, I am eating lots of cheese, boiled eggs, nuts and meat of some sort.  I've also stooped to eating pork rinds for something crunchy.     I bought more turnips for the roasted veggies.

We had chili rellenos casserole last night and it was good. (12 net carbs for 1/8th of it.  I used raw milk in place of the evaporated milk, and whole wheat flour for the thickener.

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Chiles-Rellenos-Pie/Detail.aspx

we had a meal that passed the test the other night.  nothing spectacular, but pretty good.  cook chicken breasts (boneless) in a skillet or stoneware, cover with cheese and crumbled bacon.  we had green beans with cheese, and salad.

Are Mushrooms ok on a candida diet? How about alcohol? Like Crown Royal?

Mushrooms are not permitted on a Candida cleanse. 

Mushrooms and stinky cheese and other types of edible fungi and mold are not recommended by most of the experts who write about yeast.  The only reasoning I have been able to find was on one website where the author said that yeasts cross react.  I've even read the Yeast Connection Cookbook and other than giving a directive not to eat these things I cannot recall the author giving any reasons why not to.

Here's my thoughts.  Mushrooms do not cause yeast as far as I know.  The are very low in carbs and contain no unnatural sugars or hormones that might feed candida.  They also do not crossbreed with candida as far as any logical research that I've done.  If you can find some documentation to refute this, I'd be very interested as this question comes up a lot.

I personally ate stinky cheese and mushrooms a lot while cleansing from yeast and had no issues.  I suppose it's possible that this slowed my healing time, so use your judgment based on what you know and be sure and let us know your results and your conclusions.  Wine is also cautioned against for the same reasons; however, I think alcohol in moderation should be fine IF the carb count is low.  Beer would most likely be out for this reason as the average bottle of beer contains about 10-20 carbs.  You could sneak one in on occasion, but I don't think it would be a big sacrifice for most of you to give up beer for a couple of weeks.    I don't honestly recall the carb counts for distilled liquors.

Hang in there! Sometimes life just isn't easy    Here's some ideas:

~~I've found that quinoa, a bit of cinnamon, coconut oil, and some stevia (I use the white kind found in packets) tastes good.

~~ Have you ever tried to wrap romaine lettuce around raw cashew butter? Some might think I'm nuts ( ) but I like that for a snack.

If you mix half sour cream (homemade, if you can) with yogurt, put a bit of onion powder, garlic powder, parsley, dill, and some salt in it, that makes a great dip for veggies.

Another favorite of mine is butter stuffed celery

Casserole: Cook up some pieces of chicken. While that is cooking, cook up some kind of grain...quinoa or millet or brown rice. Use the broth from the chicken to make a somewhat watery gravy. Slice in some olives, a bit of jalapeno pepper, cumin, salt, and oregano. Stir fry some colorful veggies. Mix 1/3 of the gravy with the grain and add a few eggs, one egg per 2c. mixture. Put in a greased oven dish/pan. (9x13 for 4-6c. mixture) Mix chopped chicken, veggies, and remaining sauce and pour over top. Cook for around thirty minutes or until mixture is bubbly. Arrowroot can be used as a thickener, but if you're not used to that, I'd feel free to, at least at first, use half whole grain flour and half arrowroot. Just a thought.

~~ Sweet potato and raw walnuts

~~A bit of dill in yogurt, stirred, with cucumber slices to dip with

~~ Might sound funny again, but did you know that you can used raw, scooped out onion as a "bowel" for baking grain-based casseroles in? You can fry up some meat, add some leftover cooked whole grain and veggies to it (with spices), spoon into the onions and bake for a while. These are really filling.

~~ use a greased pie pan and bake a filling for a quiche in that.

As I understand sweet potatoes and grains are all no no's during the first part of a candida diet. But I will definitely try those ideas once he can have them!!! I have "created" a decent salad dressing recipie for anyone interested.....

2T Sesame Oil
1/4 C Apple Cider Vinegar or lemon Juice(best w/ 1/2 and 1/2)
1 1/2 t soy sauce (tamari)
2T Olive Oil
1t dried oregano
2-3 crushed garlic cloves.
Shake and serve!

I am sorry it took me a while to get back with you.  The reason mushrooms are forbidden is because they can be tainted with mold spores.  Later in the same booklet it says that some people react badly to mushrooms.  I think it has to be a personal decision.  I really LIKE mushrooms and would probably eliminate them at first.  But, if reintroducing them had no adverse effects.  I would eat up and be happy.
Probably washing them in a diluted vinegar wash would kill any mold or yeast...........

Have you tried turnips?  I'm beginning to like them.   At first I diced a turnip a zucchini and half of a potato.  I swirled them in coarse sea salt and coconut oil with a dollop of butter.  Then I roasted them at 450* until they were tender.  This is our favorite potato sub and we don't add the potato now...

For some reason, dried fruits are supposed to be more starchy than the real ones, so, if you can, it would be better to eat the fresh berries.  Berries are a good fruit to start with, though, as they are less yeast-feeding than other fruits.  Green apples and grapefruit are also acceptable in small amounts. 

For those who are fighting hunger/cravings, I found that taking my  supplements when i get hungry (instead of during meals) helps to curb the craving for a bit and usually until the next scheduled meal.  The extra bulk from the supplements and the water fill up the tummy and give it something to do beside growl at me.   

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,3606.msg203466.html#msg203466

you might try the recipe above and add some nuts.

Thanks to every one for your posts!   

[4myhoonie]

I'm not following the Maker's Diet, so I'm OK w/ bacon/pork.     I'm doing it for yeast...do they affect yeast?

ok, Yooper!  here is what i thought we were doing:

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2592.msg204039.html#msg204039

no matter though, it's all good to share ideas and stuff.  still can't wait to try your soup, maybe tomorrow night.   

[Jemima]

I've been thinking about this whole version of a yeast cleanse, and have a couple questions/concerns that maybe someone can offer some insight on.

Thinking of it being for a nursing mom -- and how we basically want to avoid drastic die-off symptoms/results so the die-off, toxic junk doesn't go into the breastmilk, thus to our baby.  ...And ...this plan seems to be one of the most "hard-core" yeast cleanse diets I've seen - eliminating more foods than the average anti-candida diet found on this forum.  So I'm a little confused as to how this can be a better one for a nursing mom.   

I'm all for getting really strict and totally de-yeasting but I want to be very careful all of this doesn't affect my baby adversely.  Even long-term.

Did I make myself clear enough? I'm thinking and typing, and hoping you can follow my thought!

In light of all that, I'm wondering if maybe I should allow myself a couple more foods.  What, I'm not sure of yet. Thought of beans, gluten free bread?  But before I do, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[YoopreMama]

I'm not following the Maker's Diet, so I'm OK w/ bacon/pork.     I'm doing it for yeast...do they affect yeast?

ok, Yooper!  here is what i thought we were doing:

http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,2592.msg204039.html#msg204039

no matter though, it's all good to share ideas and stuff.  still can't wait to try your soup, maybe tomorrow night.   

4MH--
I've read the Maker's Diet, but don't have it on hand...the reasons why he avoids bacon/pork I'm not recalling clearly, but I didn't think it had to do w/ yeast (the main reason I want to do this)...is it parasite related?  This is a "good" bacon w/o the sodium nitrites, at least.  I'm not doing this for allergen reasons...which I THINK is a primary reason for Shabby doing this...

Jemima--
I understand where you're coming from very clearly......and appreciate what it adds to this discussion.  Those are valid concerns and I think we should ask ForeverGirl and HB and Shabby to respond...

I guess I'm not totally convinced that stuff leaving my intestinal tract goes into my milk (read: educate me!).    But, obviously, I don't want to adversely affect baby, either, so I'm very interested in what is know about the die-off process when nursing.  Anything I put in my mouth, I understand to go into milk, but stuff that's already in my body and getting ready to depart?   (Thinking simple, here, I know).    

I think I'm going to go more w/ the Body Ecology meal plan...adding almonds and maybe red potatoes, blue corn chips.  Maybe those sour fruits...

All food groups, sans dairy, are represented...(which leafy greens, almonds, and millet, at least, will help nutritionally to compensate for).

IMO...I think it's healthful, and if consumed in large enough quantities, filling for nursing needs.

Still mulling...

[morningglory]

I am no expert, but here are a few thoughts.  Candida is constantly giving off toxic substances, which is part of why it's such a problem in the first place.  Candida dying off does release toxins, but it's very temporary, and compared to the threat of having candida releasing toxins long term, I think completely worth having your baby experience some mild detox.  I had to do a very strict yeast cleanse with my 2 year old, and it was not easy.  If I had known to do it while he was nursing exclusively, it would have been much simpler for both of us.  Obviously, if your baby is having severe detox, you should back off.

When we did our strict candida cleanse, we ate one small serving of low-carb fruit every day, and also some GFCF, low-low-carb dark chocolate.  The fruit was generally frozen blueberries, and they taste amazingly sweet when it's the only form of sugar you're getting.  We ate so low carb, that an occasional piece of fruit or bread or some potatoes didn't set us back at all.  As far as vinegar, ACV with the mother is supposed to be fine.  Different schools of thought on that, but I don't think that a tablespoon on your salad is going to do much damage.  I personally believe it would help the process by keeping your body chemistry unhospitable to yeast.

[YoopreMama]

I am no expert, but here are a few thoughts.  Candida is constantly giving off toxic substances, which is part of why it's such a problem in the first place.  Candida dying off does release toxins, but it's very temporary, and compared to the threat of having candida releasing toxins long term, I think completely worth having your baby experience some mild detox.  I had to do a very strict yeast cleanse with my 2 year old, and it was not easy.  If I had known to do it while he was nursing exclusively, it would have been much simpler for both of us.  Obviously, if your baby is having severe detox, you should back off.

When we did our strict candida cleanse, we ate one small serving of low-carb fruit every day, and also some GFCF, low-low-carb dark chocolate.  The fruit was generally frozen blueberries, and they taste amazingly sweet when it's the only form of sugar you're getting.  We ate so low carb, that an occasional piece of fruit or bread or some potatoes didn't set us back at all.  As far as vinegar, ACV with the mother is supposed to be fine.  Different schools of thought on that, but I don't think that a tablespoon on your salad is going to do much damage.  I personally believe it would help the process by keeping your body chemistry unhospitable to yeast.

Thank you for sharing, morningglory!    I know you have done a lot w/ cleansing...and I agree, that I'd rather do it with a nursing baby (if there were no long term ill-effects) than a 2 year old. 

I would rather get us healthy now...currently, baby doesn't show signs of "trouble", other than some dry skin occasionally.  Certainly, if he was being affected by this, I would back off.

I'm glad you shared about the fruit (we have lots of frozen blueberries) and the dark chocolate.    I planning to use vinegar w/ the mother in salad dressing...

More thoughts?

[Jemima]

Just doing some reading and found this...  I thought it may be wise info if we are concerned about die-off, and it affecting our babies. I recommend you read the whole page! It's worthwhile, and talks about making smaller steps in order to not overwhelm the body w/ die-off/detox symptoms.

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/intro1.php

Antifungals and probiotics should only be added at the right time, after you are following the entire diet and taking all of the essential supplements. This will help minimize "die-off" symptoms so you will not such severe die-off symptoms when you start on antifungals.

  (never heard that before - interesting)

[ETA: check out the recipes section on the website! I took down the homemade mayo recipe.]

[YoopreMama]

I am so encouraged by that site, Jemima (I'm reading, reading, reading)!  I especially like the link on Babies/Children...
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/baby.php
Thanks!   

And this is what I was thinking about, as we're brilliantly designed  :

Dr. Schulze says that you can take any and all of his products while nursing or pregnant. he also says you can do any of his cleanses b/c your body is smart and knows how to make the toxins not go to the milk or baby.  He has treated many pregnant women in his clinic and I fully trust him. It makes sense to me!! I think all of his products would benefit a baby.

Like this link, too for meal ideas:
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu2_7.php

and her egg smoothie (I wonder if you can add cocoa... :

Bee's Egg Drink {Smoothie}

© Copyright Bee Wilder

Contains: 19 grams of protein, 65 grams of fat and 4 grams of carbs.

Contrary to popular belief, Eggs Are Not a Likely Source of Salmonella Contamination.
Ingredients

    * 3 large whole eggs (or 4 medium), preferably "certified organic" free-range
      (whole eggs or a combination of whole eggs and egg yolks can be used)
    * 2 tablespoons unrefined coconut oil
    * 2 tablespoons butter (organic or certified organic & unsalted is best, preferably raw and unpasteurized)
    * 1 teaspoon ground cinnamon, or to taste
    * 1/2 teaspoon ground nutmeg
    * 1 pinch of stevia sweetener, or to taste
    * 2 to 2 ½ cups of boiled water

Other spices can be used to taste, i.e. ground clove, allspice, ginger, etc.
Instructions

   1. Boil water.
   2. Put all ingredients in a blender except the water.
   3. Add boiled water last and let it sit until the egg whites turn white (a minute or less).
   4. Close the cover well, and blend for about 20 seconds.
   5. This drink keeps well in a thermos for several hours, and it can be kept in the refrigerator for 24 hours.
      Since it tends to separate it may need to be stirred well or blended again before drinking it.

If you prefer the drink cold, put it in the refrigerator to cool it down. Just stir it well before drinking it.

All ingredients can be adjusted to suit individual needs and tastes. For example, if you are just starting on coconut oil start with 1 egg and 1 teaspoon of coconut oil, less water and spices, and gradually increase the amount of coconut oil over time (every 4 to 5 days) to minimize die-off/healing reactions. The number of eggs can be increased or decreased, along with any other ingredients.

[Jemima]

So, any more thoughts on the die-off from candida adversely affecting nursing babies? Or where the die-off actually takes place?

[morningglory]

Bentonite clay is supposed to pull toxins and eliminate them through the kidneys.  Maybe a little in some bath water would help?

[YoopreMama]

Jemima--It sounds like candida is everywhere in the body, even normally.  Still researching the toxins in milk...found a neat low carb forum w/ a thread on yeast/candida cleansing and they are discussing the site you found.  Good discussions going on--not sure if any are nursing...going to keep looking.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/health-medical-issues/575750-let-s-talk-yeast-candida.html

and I just saw this one:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/health-medical-issues/579590-how-you-anti-yeast-people-doing-check.html

The lady who runs that site, MG, (Bea) recommends against bentonite clay internally...for the same reasons posted here somewhere...that the source is possibly contaminated, IIRC.

I am going to still go ahead w/ things tomorrow....but more in line w/ the plan outlined on that site (which I see is posted on other threads here).  Not doing the heavier antifungals and probiotics until on the diet for awhile and having worked through the various stages.  I'll try and post what that is, and then perhaps, we need to start a different thread, b/c that is a bit different than what Shabby was doing--and for different reasons (not allergy-related).

 

[Jemima]

(you beat me to posting, Jen! oh well, I'll go with it anyway)

Hey, part of your last post wasn't there before, Yooper - the quote from Rikki, etc.  That's interesting and good to know. So, are we still starting tomorrow?? Yooper, Amazonmama, 4myhoonie? Can't remember for sure who all was interested.

I'm starting tomorrow. However, after reading the site I mentioned above, (and quoted by Yooper) I'm going to take a more gradual approach. I'm starting week one by eliminating all sugars and fruits, and upping my good fats. Eventually, I guess I'll probably be eating the same as the original "Shabby yeast cleanse" but, personally, I feel more comfortable with making a gradual week by week change, for the sake of my baby mostly. I also feel comfortable doing this with my 19 mo. old DS.

So, maybe I should stay out of this particular thread/discussion, for the sake of the title... ?  But I'll def. be checking in to see how everyone's doing - and keep myself encouraged and focused!!    

Oh, and I'm wondering if anyone wants to share some breakfast ideas??  I'm realizing a fruit free, sugar free breakfast is going to be real bland...   All I can think of is oatmeal with butter and salt - and eggs.  Any ideas for adding a bit of flavor to breakfast?

[InEverything]

I've been thinking about this whole version of a yeast cleanse, and have a couple questions/concerns that maybe someone can offer some insight on.

Thinking of it being for a nursing mom -- and how we basically want to avoid drastic die-off symptoms/results so the die-off, toxic junk doesn't go into the breastmilk, thus to our baby.  ...And ...this plan seems to be one of the most "hard-core" yeast cleanse diets I've seen - eliminating more foods than the average anti-candida diet found on this forum.  So I'm a little confused as to how this can be a better one for a nursing mom.   

I'm all for getting really strict and totally de-yeasting but I want to be very careful all of this doesn't affect my baby adversely.  Even long-term.

Did I make myself clear enough? I'm thinking and typing, and hoping you can follow my thought!

In light of all that, I'm wondering if maybe I should allow myself a couple more foods.  What, I'm not sure of yet. Thought of beans, gluten free bread?  But before I do, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Hi-- you may have already had the tip to stay hydrated.  The more water you drink the slower you will detox.  This is what I read anyway  

[YoopreMama]

Will post later...yeah I edited my previous post and added more. 

Did you see Bea's menus, Jemima?  The egg smoothies?  Salmon patties?  I may modify my pancake recipe...will post if it works. 

I'm starting tomorrow--no sugars and fruits and upping the good fats, too!  Me thinks we should start a thread...I can do it later, if you'd like, w/ our posts in it...unless HB steps in to help. 

[mommie]

www.cookingwithstevia.com

[YoopreMama]

Thanks, crissyjoy--will have to check that out!   

Here's where we started a thread for encouragement while on an anti-candida diet:
http://www.welltellme.com/discuss/index.php/topic,21241.msg205033/topicseen.html#new

Sufficient water is definitely keeping headaches at bay here.   

As far as flavor to breakfast...I could imagine the French Vanilla stevia in hot cereal...cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamon...  A good tea?
 
 

[rebeccahuff]

Any nursing Mama's still doing the Yeast Cleanse? I'm about to start, as well as our entire family.

Is there any validity to that Candida test where you spit in a glass of water first thing in the a.m. ? We did that and according to that test, everyone in our family except the baby has Candida! (7 out of 8 ) I did read that 89% of Americans have it, most unknowingly.

Just looking for sympathizers, uh, I mean support! 

[rebeccahuff]

bump

So, any more thoughts on the die-off from candida adversely affecting nursing babies? Or where the die-off actually takes place?

[brigonia]

Hi, I have been eating this way again.  My baby has eczema so I gave up dairy.  I do eat homemade stevia sweetened chocolate though.  So I am eating veggies, meat, kombucha and fermented veggies, and fruit (berries and green apple).  I only eat fruit about once a week.  I have lost almost 30 pounds since December.     I am also eating raw veggies with each meal and that has really made the weight come off!  The raw veggies are supposed to be liver supportive and I would think that would help with any die off also. 

I have not noticed any die off symptoms in me or my baby.  After the first few days of going dairy free I have felt better and better.  A few weeks ago my baby was having green poops.  We started feeding him solids because he seemed to need them.  His poops are normal now so I think he just needed more food.  His eczema did seem worse at first but now it is better.  I have been dairy free for over two months so I'm hoping to see it go away soon.  I'm also going to start giving him cod liver oil and I try to give him a little probiotic powder with dinner.